The state of PVP Ret in 5.2

100 Human Paladin
10820
I had high hopes for Ret this season. Sadly, it looks more like a repeat of last season. The devs specifically said they wanted to give Ret something to be competitive in RBGs. We didn't get it. We didn't even get close. The new AOE slow requires us to give up Execution Sentence which is something we need as dps. The slow isn't even that good if you compare it up against things like frost ring or aoe fear. It just doesn't measure up to what other dps classes bring to RBGs. We also got the ability to remove magic effects with Sac. That's not a game changer by any means. It's pretty nice in 2s but in RBGs it just doesn't stack up against the tools other dps class have that are sought after for RBGs - locks, mages, shamans, druids, monks, DKs, priests. In fact it's weak.

We did get some good dps boosts. Unfortunately we're still prone to being cc'd and shut down (silence) easily. So, a lot of that dps doesn't help when you can't get on the target. What I see is these dps boosts are great in arena but don't help much in RBGs.

I wish a dev would log onto their ret and see how many invites they get to RBGs.
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100 Human Paladin
10820
One more thing. Because Ret sucked so bad last season most people are not even willing to take a chance playing with Ret in RBGs or even in arena. What Blizz should have done was give Ret some OP buffs at the start of this season just to get people to pick up Ret again. Then they could have nerfed it back down to a reasonable level that would still make Ret competitive.
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90 Human Mage
8445
No matter how much better gear you get, Ret still sucks in pvp. Any range dps makes us their play toy. Shadow priests and warlocks are almost zero chance to win because we are almost always silenced, stunned, feared, horrified, etc. It is very, very sad. Surely, the developers knew their slight changes in 5.2 were a joke...
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90 Human Monk
8645
To start with, you should be using Holy Prism, not Execution Sentence.

Besides that, the issue is with RBG's and melee specifically. All melee struggle to get into BG's, it's not a ret only thing. The only ones who have it easy are DK's and Rogues, and these are only because of Gorefiend's Grasp and Smokebomb. If there were ranged classes that had these abilities, then the DK's -and rogues would probably get benched too.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Paladins are pretty strong as far as small scale fights go, but they fall off pretty quickly when fights get into the 5v5 or 10v10 range. Our defenses are purely linear, my healing vs your damage. If I outheal your damage, I win, and if you out damage my healing, you win. We have some cooldowns to help slow their damage or boost our healing for a short while, but they're still tug of war, which will inherently fall off in larger fights.

By contrast, the survivability of other classes is tied to things like range, mobility, visibility, crowd control and so on. Things like that can be combined with each other to escape from danger and return to safety to regain the upper hand, something Paladins lack.

For example, each horrify for Warlocks is a free form of CC that brings them that much closer to resetting the diminishing returns on fear. Then their fear puts distance between the warlock and their target, which can only occasionally be closed again quickly. Mages have iceblock to let them wait for blink, frost nova and barrier to come back, same with hunters and deterrence providing a delay for another scatter/trap, disengage, explosive trap or whatever else they need.

These classes have emergency survival skills that will cover a moment of vulnerability and allow them to escape. Paladins are one of the few that have no such method of escape. They rely upon their healing and damage mitigation, but they can't shut the flow of incoming damage off save for once per 5 minutes. The difference is that there are no cooldowns or escape tools the Paladin is stalling for.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
13845
There is no reason to bring rets to RBGs. There is no argument otherwise. There is a class that does everything better than we do.

Mass CC = boomkin, frost mages, frost DKs
Damage = anyone
Utility = any healer can do what we can
Off heals = spriest, boomkin, ele shaman can do more, and for longer, and with better CDs

To bring ret back to play, we need to be almost indestructible in a 1v1 or even 1v2 or 1v3 like we were in cata, but slightly less damage. I remember running 416 gurth and just totally able to rock 2-4 people at once. We need that survivability back (something that no other melee has) and since our damage isn't amazing already, we would be viable, maybe even preferred over a warrior or DK once in a blue moon. I think WoG needs an insane buff when used on ourselves. It will give us huge survivability while making us sacrifice damage to do so. It's balanced and fair. It needs to heal at least 5x as much as it does now (only to ourselves). And maybe a buff to HoF. like a 10% damage reduction or something.

Those are my ideas. I would LOVE to pvp on my main, and have her with the titles and stuff, but it's just not possible to get 2200+ in RBGs without being carried at least a bit. I admit, I'm not the most skilled, but I've been playing for years and know my class inside and out. I have not seen a single ret pally excel in RBGs.

Edit - in short, I guess we would turn into kinda blood DKs, only slightly more damage, and a bit squishier and more susceptible to CC and burst. We should have the heals to stay alive like one does though, when we are able to cast them. A skilled player should be able to shut down a ret pally enough to get a kill against a lesser skilled ret pally. It's totally conceivable to pull this off.
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Or you're just bad, I can get into a high mmr grp whenever I want, step yo game up.
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90 Human Paladin
0
So ranged have loads more CC than melee on top of the snares and blink type abilities GG. Time to quit wasting my cash till they can balance this trash. it will never happen so I suppose lets just call it a draw I move on and : ). Wow flourishes and steals time/souls like it always has lol. Anyway farewell not wasting time leveling more toons. Work, life, family among other things. I just wanted to point out the CC bull. To bad I couldn't get time credit for all the time I can't play for loss of player control due to CC.

Bid all a farewell and Laugh at those that think game is fine.
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90 Worgen Warlock
9650
I rerolled after 7+ years as ret.

This warlock is about 100% more fun to play in PVP.
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90 Human Paladin
10480
I like ret. I pwn all the classes you seem to be struggling with. Yea were gimp sometimes...but sometimes were HAM! You shouldn't be doing RBG with strangers anyway. Find some friends who know how HAM you are and destroy RBGs. When you win as ret you know you won against all odds.

oh forgot to mention a benefit of having a ret in RBGs.

1) Ranged 40 yd slow that does damage
2) Instant cast Lay on Hands sized Flash of Lights
3) Insane burst
4) Hands spells that augment the killing and living power of your entire group
5) Decent survivability (people that disagree are funny. I do a TON of self heals in BGs)
Edited by Elurd on 3/20/2013 10:20 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
11670
They want you to reroll

In other obvious news you apparently didn't know....

This just in! When the sun goes down at night, it gets dark.

Wow, totally didn't make that connection.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16635
Honestly, if they removed the healing from the pure melee classes (hunter, warrior etc) I wouldn't have much to say. I don't think a hybrid class should be able to do more damage than a pure dps class.

Ret is a good support class as well, i.e a DK with hand of freedom is a slaughter house. A lot of good RBG teams know the benefits of carrying a ret w/ them.
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