Holy Paladin Healing ...

90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
Hi All,

While I wait for the rest of my healing tier items to drop, I am wondering what everyone thinks about haste vs. mastery vs. crit for 10 man raiding.

Mana seems to be good these days, so I am tinkering with the other stats. Two of the three websites many use to tune their characters (noxxic.com and maxdps.com) are at odds on where reforging should be going. Mr Robot being the third has both options and a third as well which adds to the confusion.

I was reforged to haste and found that my hps and total healing always lagged behind other healers and other paladins. One of my guildies has all four items to his tier allowing him to cast holy shock 2 seconds sooner then I do and he always outheals me. Definitely this will have an impact, but I have seen other less geared holy pallies out perform.

Now I switched to mastery, and am wondering two things - does the mastery absorption shield that I am increasing add to my hps or will this further lower my numbers? Secondly, will this make things better? Should I be going to crit?

All this leads me to question just about everything! Do other HPs pop all their cooldowns at once? One at a time? I am trying many different combinations, but tuning healing output is not as easy as tuning dps since there are no dummies to practice on (except for perhaps the dummies in the pug group - haha).

Any thoughts or advice you may have would be helpful. Be gentle with your criticism though.

Oh hell we might as well vote on my offhand - I have the masterwork lightsteel shield still in my bags from when the fan dropped. I find the fan does help but I get hit a little harder.

Thanks in advance!
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90 Tauren Shaman
16560
Mastery.

If mastery isn't more than 25% of your effective healing done, you're doin it wrong.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
So I should be dropping more into mastery? until 25%? apparently I am 21.35% (not 21.36 or 21.34 but 21.35% LOL). Accurate to two decimal places - gotta love WoW.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16515
Mastery...

If you start adding haste, you'll feel your mana drop. if you start adding mastery, your mana regen will feel better. It's not that they directly affect your spirit, but haste affects your cast speed and mastery affects how often you need to cast which creates this odd relationship.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12810
Now I switched to mastery, and am wondering two things - does the mastery absorption shield that I am increasing add to my hps or will this further lower my numbers? Secondly, will this make things better? Should I be going to crit?


First, don't think about it in "numbers"

It does add to them. As a matter of fact, it's often an Hpally's highest heal in a group that doesn't take a ton of avoidable crap. And it has the added benefit of being an absorb, by nature, not something that overheals (wastes mana).

Those absorbs give you the padding and room to not need a boatload of haste - and best of all, they're FREE. They don't cost any extra mana, they just magically appear with direct heals.

So on a healing "budget" they're like someone giving you a buy one, get one free coupon, redeemable for a lifetime. On long, drawn out fights in particular, they're just priceless. When other healers are struggling for mana, you're still pumping out the heals and shields.

They're the sparkles and fudge sauce on top of the ice cream of strong pally heals :p

until 25%?


No, pretty much all the way. 25% is about the minimum percentage of your overall heals that should be coming from your mastery (illuminated healing).

If you hit a point where your spirit is high enough that you're always finishing even intense fights with mana to spare, you can start pushing a little haste to hit the EF extra tick breakpoint. But some of that will depend on your personal style - if you don't use EF a lot, it's wasted compared to mastery, which applies to almost anything except beacon heals.
Edited by Shankari on 3/12/2013 8:38 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
16560
So I should be dropping more into mastery? until 25%? apparently I am 21.35% (not 21.36 or 21.34 but 21.35% LOL). Accurate to two decimal places - gotta love WoW.


Not quite what I meant. You can look at the healing breakdown at the end of a kill or dungeon.
This breakdown tells him or her what spells contributed the most to his overall HPS. Typically, a good, well geared, mastery-stacked paladin can see anywhere from 25-30% of his effective healing done ('effective' meaning counting absorbs as well as direct heals, because while you aren't 'healing' them, you're preventing them from taking damage) coming entirely from Illuminated Healing, aka, Hpally mastery.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
mastery is def the way to go for now.. atm i doing spirit>int>mastery>crit>haste and destroying the other healers in my raid. do you have a WoL that we could analyze (since you said you were being beat by your other healers)?
Edited by Jarshie on 3/12/2013 9:20 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
First, don't think about it in "numbers"


I have to think of the numbers - don't I? When running in a raid, the weakest link always has the finger pointed at them. If I am doing lowest hps then it must be me?

Recount doesn't even count the fact that I am using mitigation like spells like crazy while other healers may not be. I asked a guildie HPally - he rarely uses the hand spells - other than the "Holy CRAP" (Lay of Hands spell)

In the end, if one pally is pumping through 15-20K hps more on a particular boss then me, then I need to adjust something. Tried HoF last night a few times, I think I was averaging 45K hps on Garalon while other HPally was kicking my butt at 60K dps. Regardless we wiped numerous times - was I to blame? No idea - but I would feel better if I was pumping out 60K hps so I could say "Guys I am doing more hps then some of you are doing dps, lets get it together!" But instead, I am left scratching my head wondering "how much faster can I pound these keys/buttons? or what else can I gem differently?"

Sometimes I wonder ... and almost wish recount permanently broke - I have seen people cut from raids because their dps was too low. My happiest days as Warrior were when I was running heroics when recount was broken - I knew my dps sucked but my Warrior wasn't my main - I just wanted a decent set of gear so I could level to 90. Perhaps the happy medium is a "personal" recount where it gives me my stats so I could improve - but I digress. In fact, I took advantage of the broken status of the addon and heroiced like crazy until I had all 463 gear ... now all my warrior does is farm and scribe ... but that is a different story altogether.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
03/12/2013 09:28 AMPosted by Ardalin
First, don't think about it in "numbers"


I have to think of the numbers - don't I? When running in a raid, the weakest link always has the finger pointed at them. If I am doing lowest hps then it must be me?

Recount doesn't even count the fact that I am using mitigation like spells like crazy while other healers may not be. I asked a guildie HPally - he rarely uses the hand spells - other than the "Holy CRAP" (Lay of Hands spell)

In the end, if one pally is pumping through 15-20K hps more on a particular boss then me, then I need to adjust something. Tried HoF last night a few times, I think I was averaging 45K hps on Garalon while other HPally was kicking my butt at 60K dps. Regardless we wiped numerous times - was I to blame? No idea - but I would feel better if I was pumping out 60K hps so I could say "Guys I am doing more hps then some of you are doing dps, lets get it together!" But instead, I am left scratching my head wondering "how much faster can I pound these keys/buttons? or what else can I gem differently?"

Sometimes I wonder ... and almost wish recount permanently broke - I have seen people cut from raids because their dps was too low. My happiest days as Warrior were when I was running heroics when recount was broken - I knew my dps sucked but my Warrior wasn't my main - I just wanted a decent set of gear so I could level to 90. Perhaps the happy medium is a "personal" recount where it gives me my stats so I could improve - but I digress. In fact, I took advantage of the broken status of the addon and heroiced like crazy until I had all 463 gear ... now all my warrior does is farm and scribe ... but that is a different story altogether.


hand spells are amazing... have a person get hit by atonement (hand of protection), have a person known to grab aggro (hand), have a major dmg phase (hand)... i typically have the majority of my hands on cd.

do NOT judge your hps to dps, or just go by numbers from recount. your mastery bubble will be listed as (illuminated healing) and as others have stated should be your highest percentage heal.

if a guild is kicking you from the raid, just because you have low hps numbers, then trust me, you did not want to be in the raid group. however if they were analyzing it and came to a conclusion, then thats a whole other story.

as for the other paladin, beating you by numbers, we would need to see your WoL's to see why (and if you can help it at all)
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90 Tauren Paladin
7525
Personally I stack mastery > spirit > int > crit > haste.

With the tier 4 piece holy radiance becomes mana efficient,

And you can use holy shock more.

Also running with eternal flame, and the holy power proc works well to save mana and get a free heal.

Mastery is good for overall healing done, and absorbs,

Crit is for overall healing if you want high overall hps,

and haste is if you want to burn through all your mana but keep people up.
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90 Human Paladin
8450
I'm at 30%+ mastery and dont seem to go OOM too often, so now im considering going into more haste to increase output. idk though hahah
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
if a guild is kicking you from the raid, just because you have low hps numbers, then trust me, you did not want to be in the raid group. however if they were analyzing it and came to a conclusion, then thats a whole other story.


Its mostly me that is REALLY hard on myself - group I raid with hasn't said a heck of alot especially since until my 4 tier set finishes dropping there isn't a whole lot I can do when I compare myself to someone else who has a 4 tier set I guess.

Perhaps the answer lies there ... can cast Holy Shock 4 extra times per minute with complete set ... which means 4 extra holy power per minute ... with divine purpose that can stack to a boat load of extra healing...
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
I don't know if you were only using it for one particular situation, but your last tier talent is the worst choice in basically every aspect. It should be switched to either of the other two (depending on the fight). This should increase your heals by quite a bit, considering I use mine on cooldown.

Also, I personally prefer using unbreakable spirit as well as the Lay on Hands glyph, basically providing at least two extra "potions" + life saving spells throughout the fights, which allows me to spam expensive heals more if it's needed.

Other than that, all your gems and enchants look good. It may just be a problem with your healing style. Paladins are more of reactive healers than many other classes. Due to having so many instant/short casts (holy shock, WoG/EF, HL/DL when procced) we are good at topping off minor damage very quickly. Make sure you are clicking the shiny buttons when they pop up and are using holy shock on CD if possible, being your most efficient heal.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
don't know if you were only using it for one particular situation, but your last tier talent is the worst choice in basically every aspect. It should be switched to either of the other two (depending on the fight). This should increase your heals by quite a bit, considering I use mine on cooldown.


Its funny you would say that ... I was using Holy Prism as it is faster to cast not requiring "marking" but other HPallys suggested against it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14510
03/12/2013 10:14 AMPosted by Ardalin
don't know if you were only using it for one particular situation, but your last tier talent is the worst choice in basically every aspect. It should be switched to either of the other two (depending on the fight). This should increase your heals by quite a bit, considering I use mine on cooldown.


Its funny you would say that ... I was using Holy Prism as it is faster to cast not requiring "marking" but other HPallys suggested against it.


Just curious, what were they suggesting? I use holy prism and I love it. Execution sentence has always seemed lame to me. And while divine hammer is nice for ret because the boss doesn't move much most of the time, it didn't seem effective when I used it in holy because as soon as ranged had to move it was useless. The only pro I can think of is that it's free, though I have more mana than I know what to do with.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
I love holy prism because I can use it on the boss and it zaps everyone in melee range to a pretty substantial health %. If just the tank is melee range and he's not taking damage, I can use it on someone and it acts as an instant cast divine light. Just make sure you are using it for it's healing AoE side more than you are using it for the dps AoE.

Light's hammer is good for the same reason. You can use it in fights that contain a lot of stack phases or even if it's just the tank and a couple melee on the boss, you can drop it there and do a substantial amount of heals. I've been stuck on holy prism for all of 5.1 and just now starting to see how Light's hammer works. Unfortunately all I do is get in pugs due to my schedule, so I can't speak to higher end content, but that's how it seems to be working out for me and I am ALWAYS topping the meters.
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90 Human Monk
7160
more mastery= more bubbles = less hard casting needed= saved mana
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90 Human Paladin
10400
Test each, see what you like. Numbers don't matter if you're unable to keep people alive according to your playstyle.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10645
Spirit > Mastery > Crit. Avoid Haste.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10645
If you hit a point where your spirit is high enough that you're always finishing even intense fights with mana to spare, you can start pushing a little haste to hit the EF extra tick breakpoint. But some of that will depend on your personal style - if you don't use EF a lot, it's wasted compared to mastery, which applies to almost anything except beacon heals.

There's no point. The EF HoT mostly exists to roll Mastery and keep a steady stream of healing going to the Beacon. It lasts too long to make any sort of effective prediction as to whether any ticks after the first 1-3 are going to be effective; the last tick is basically a tiny uncontrollable heal on a completely random target.

It may be a theoretical gain, but in practice, Mastery will do more (even more so if you're a heavy EF user).
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