How do healers expect to gear up?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
I don't.

(see Armory)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Weapons for pallies drop off the first mob. Gearing up won't be hard. Worst case scenario is you do LFR's for the lower level version until you get a guild drop.

As for other items..... Not a whole lot of Int Plate casters out there. Guess who gets those items when they drop? You might have to wait on the 2/4 piece, but you'll gear up on the other pieces fast enough. Trinkets/Rings/Necks..... Lots of competition, but heck there is VP items for sale.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
03/13/2013 10:12 AMPosted by Deadsecsi
Guess who gets those items when they drop?

They drop?

(ok, they drop in MSV. That's about it.)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Guess who gets those items when they drop?

They drop?

(ok, they drop in MSV. That's about it.)


Gotta love the RNG. Nice set of plate wrists in first wing of ToT as well, also a BP iirc.

That said, i still can't get the ToES trinket to drop......
Edited by Deadsecsi on 3/13/2013 12:56 PM PDT
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100 Human Warrior
17760
03/12/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Buddei
How do healers expect to gear up when dps classes now use spirit gear/weapons.


They now use them? As in this is something that just started but for the past I don't know how many years they haven't ever gotten hit from spirit? Its always been designed this way. If your guild is using loot council, then talk to them about the issue and get clarification. If you are complaining about lfd...well its nothing new. We've always (I have a resto shaman so I deal with it too) dealt with it and its always been fine.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640
pretty sure progression guilds run a 2 healing setup to max out dps, which then puts more stress on healers making them more valuable. I would argue that gearing the tanks would be more important than gearing healers or about equal. Go troll somewhere else.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12595
03/13/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Deadsecsi

They drop?

(ok, they drop in MSV. That's about it.)


Gotta love the RNG. Nice set of plate wrists in first wing of ToT as well, also a BP iirc.

That said, i still can't get the ToES trinket to drop......

Well, now you're talking LFR. LFR doesn't drop loot. LFR drops gold.
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I honestly don't know how much not making spirit a viable stat for any DPS spec would fix things. I've had gear stolen from me when it clearly listed a healing spell only proc, and a mage wanted it just because of the Intellect even though they couldn't even use the proc. :| So really, if people are going to be jerks, they're going to be jerks regardless it seems.

I've really not had any problems gearing up because of this though. Yes it may take longer if you're competing with DPS over spirit gear, and it's frustrating to lose out on a gear roll, but I try not to let it bug me, and view it as incentive to run the instance again. I'm not in a hurry to rush through content, and I would assume if someone is, they're in a progression guild and can work out reasonable loot rules with their GM.

I've really been thrilled about the spirit to hit conversion because it helps dual-specs out a lot. I run 5-mans and raids solely as resto, but do all my dailies and scenarios as ele, and spirit being a viable stat for ele means I don't have to bother farming an entirely separate set of gear for when I want to do things as ele.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10855
I agree.. I never have / had a problem with gearing my paladin in raids...
back in Dragon Soul it got to the stage where my Paladin had full Normal mode tier gear within 3 weeks as the Pally, Priest, Warlock tokens kept dropping and they eventually got funneled to me

By the end of Cata my Paladin had full sets of Healing, DPS AND tank gear from Dragon Soul....

Then again if it's plate and got int on it... guess who wins the roll?
The only holy Paladin in the group.. thats who!
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12595
03/13/2013 06:24 PMPosted by Friendabull
Pally, Priest, Warlock tokens

LOL. Those don't exist. Check both my toons. Only Sha drops Conqueror tier.
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6 Night Elf Mage
0
SHADOW PRIESTS, BALANCE DRUIDS, and ELEMENTAL SHAMANS ALL HAVE A SPIRIT TO HIT CONVERSION.

DEAL WITH IT.

SPIRIT IS A REGEN MECHANIC FOR ALL MANA BASED CASTERS. There are better stats for mages and locks, but an upgrade is an upgrade and spirit improves their regen as well.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12595
and spirit improves their regen as well.

I was with you, despite the caps, until you said this. Spirit does absolutely nothing whatsoever at all for mages and locks in combat.

(and lol @ increasing warlock regen...because that matters)
Edited by Kaels on 3/13/2013 9:32 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10400
Healers can do a lot more with less gear.

DPS are entirely limited by gear.

Usually the answer is not heal harder, but heal better, which is why gear is a non issue past a certain point.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340
Healers can do a lot more with less gear.

DPS are entirely limited by gear.

Usually the answer is not heal harder, but heal better, which is why gear is a non issue past a certain point.


On this note, giving more gear to healers can actually be considered a hindrance to your raid's overall skill level.

Giving your healers the gear to heal through mistakes gives your raid less reason to stop making those mistakes, and you stop learning how important it is to avoid such mistakes.

Then, you get to a fight where healers are already stressed enough and can't deal with mistakes, and your raid isn't skilled enough to deal with it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
I've had gear stolen from me when it clearly listed a healing spell only proc, and a mage wanted it just because of the Intellect even though they couldn't even use the proc

If the loot system allows them to roll Need, then they have as much right to the gear as you, even if it's not optimal for their current spec or class.

If someone else wins the roll, they didn't steal. You lost the roll.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6070
Well, now you're talking LFR. LFR doesn't drop loot. LFR drops gold.


Oh, now, that's not completely fair. Just the other day I got a necklace that was a downgrade from what I already had, then spent a coin and got... the same necklace again.

(Yeah, yeah, I know, random loot is random.)
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90 Night Elf Monk
8475
If the loot system allows them to roll Need, then they have as much right to the gear as you, even if it's not optimal for their current spec or class.

If someone else wins the roll, they didn't steal. You lost the roll.


Blind faith in a flawed system makes you kind of stupid...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150


Gotta love the RNG. Nice set of plate wrists in first wing of ToT as well, also a BP iirc.

That said, i still can't get the ToES trinket to drop......

Well, now you're talking LFR. LFR doesn't drop loot. LFR drops gold.


Sure it drops loot. Just nothing you can use. It always drops items that aren't upgrades!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Healers can do a lot more with less gear.

DPS are entirely limited by gear.

Usually the answer is not heal harder, but heal better, which is why gear is a non issue past a certain point.


On this note, giving more gear to healers can actually be considered a hindrance to your raid's overall skill level.

Giving your healers the gear to heal through mistakes gives your raid less reason to stop making those mistakes, and you stop learning how important it is to avoid such mistakes.

Then, you get to a fight where healers are already stressed enough and can't deal with mistakes, and your raid isn't skilled enough to deal with it.


Until you get into heavy raid damage fights where your healers are pushing it to the max already, and every little bit helps, regardless of what DPS do or don't do.

There's Tank hurdles, DPS hurdles, and Healer hurdles in the game. Ignore one role at your peril.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
An earlier post by the respectable Yuenwooping addressed weapons in T-14. So why not do T-15 as well?

There are ten caster weapons in ToT. Spirit Dagger, Neutral Dagger, Spirit Fist, Spirit Mace, Spirit Mace, Spirit Sword, Hit Staff, Neutral Staff, Spirit Staff, Neutral Wand.

(There's also 3 off-hands, Hit/Neutral/Spirit, and 2 Spirit shields, but those are less important)

Assuming Spirit weapons can only be used by healers/hybrids, Hit by Dps, and neutral weapons by anyone...

Mage: 4 weapons
Warlock: 4 weapons
SPriest: 8 weapons
ElemShaman: 8 weapons (Shaman can use daggers? Facinating!)
Boomkin: 8 weapons

D/H Priest: 7 weapons
Paladin: 3 weapons
RestoShammie: 7 weapons
RestoDruid: 7 weapons
Mistweaver: 6 weapons

So. There ya' go. Mages and Warlock's are in the worst way for DPS'ers, while the poor paladin is stuck with his Spirit maces and sword... and THEN he has to get a caster shield for off-hand, whereas everyone else has a 50% chance to win a staff and not need one. Hybrids that can use Spirit have the greatest selection, of course, but in return they have to earn the enmity of everyone else (Why are you rolling on Hit gear, Shadow priest? I can only use 4 weapons. Grab some neutral or Spirit weapon instead. Priest! Why are you rolling on Spirit weapons? I need them for heals. Stick with Hit gear).

The most balanced way to divide loot priority is to give healers first shot at any Spirit weapon, whereas DPS (including hybrid dps) get first shot at any caster weapon WITHOUT spirit (hit or neutral gear). In that case...

Mage: 4 weapons
Warlock: 4 weapons
SPriest: 4 weapons
ElemShaman: 3 weapons (4 if you add the Spirit Fist)
Boomkin: 3 weapons (4 if you add the Spirit Fist)

D/H Priest: 4 weapons
Paladin: 3 weapons
RestoShammie: 5 weapons
RestoDruid: 5 weapons
M.Weaver: 5 weapons

...fairer, anyways. Poor hybrids. Though I do love them, they make excellent swing raiders. And usually a bigger issue in 25-man than 10-man (Only healadin/Mistweaver in the raid? Boom, free sword.)

And echoing Yuenwooping above... no, sweet crap no. Just because something says you can need on it doesn't make it appropriate. It's called being a nice person. Heck, being an AVERAGE person. If a healer trinket drops, DPSers don't roll need on it. If a Spirit sword drops, the mage should not roll on it (Mages and warlocks don't need Spirit for regen, that's why they have lifetap and Invocation for... unlimited mana). Likewise, if a trinket with amazing Int drops with a proc that occurs upon damaging a mob, I as a healer won't roll on it, even if it's a shiny 463 trinket and I have a crappy 398.

Being a good sport makes everything smoother.
Edited by Wards on 3/14/2013 8:14 AM PDT
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