Shaman coming back from a break! Update me!

90 Draenei Shaman
7105
First, hello. And to some of you, nice to see you again! After browsing through some of the forums, I recognize quite a few regular faces, and many more new ones.

The last time I played WoW was during 4.3. I also dabbled a bit in the MoP beta, and was super involved in looking at class changes/the new glyphs, etc.

So to start, I do have a vague idea of the new spells and abilities I've gained, and some that I've lost. HTT looks promising, Ascendance looks nice, all that good stuff. I know from looking at the final beta builds that the Riptide Glyph and Chain Healing glyphs were less than desirable, CH situational at best. All that good stuff. Whatever.

What I've come to ask about is, what has changed?
In the beta, there was some talk about GHW just being useless, as HS got a boost to the point where it was healing the same amount for slightly less mana, and it was actually more mana efficient. In catalysm, the opposite was true: You more or less took Healing Surge off your bars and never touched it again. Is either of these still the case? Or is Healing Surge usable, and GHW still your go-to "big heal"?

As far as gemming:
In cata, it was "Go Intellect or Go Home." With the removal of our ability to spam LB and get mana back, coupled with Intellect no longer increasing our mana pool, spirit became a hell of a lot more important going into MoP. Is our gemming priority now Int=Spirit>secondary-stats-i'll-ask-about-in-a-moment? What gems should I use for different slots now?

Stat Priority:
Can someone layout the new haste breakpoints for me, what they do, and the importance of reaching each one, if breakpoint is better for 25m and optional in 10m and vice versa?
As far as spirit is concerned, once I hit 90, what's a good spirit level? Whats the "magic number" that works for most people?
Haste vs Mastery vs Crit; which one wins out here? In cata, I remember reforging off all of my crit, getting my spirit to a level where I don't run oom, and then dumping everything into mastery/haste. What's the current priority?

Ah.... excuse my armory. My game isn't installed, and for some reason it's showing me as elemental/subtlety (world's No#1 Sub Shaman HOLLA). Glyphs were converted and changed, and so that... that isn't an optimal setup. ha.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12770
03/14/2013 01:35 PMPosted by Kiango
for some reason it's showing me as elemental/subtlety (world's No#1 Sub Shaman HOLLA).

How is that Chain Lightning glyph working out in your Subtlety spec? LOL.
Edited by Kaels on 3/14/2013 3:15 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
03/14/2013 01:35 PMPosted by Kiango
My game isn't installed, and for some reason it's showing me as elemental/subtlety (world's No#1 Sub Shaman HOLLA).


LOL! That's awesome.
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i wanna be a subtlety shaman. I'll bet i could cast chain lightning while stealthed.

In terms of healing, http://healiocentric.wordpress.com/whats-new-in-mop/mop-preview-shaman-changes/6/ has the most actual math on it, including HPM etc. breakdowns.

Long story short, there isn't really a meaningful haste breakpoint because your healing totems don't scale properly with haste. Sometimes they get the extra tick and sometimes they don't. People seem to like having 10k spirit, but YMMV.
Edited by Heartsings on 3/14/2013 5:26 PM PDT
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What I've come to ask about is, what has changed?
In the beta, there was some talk about GHW just being useless, as HS got a boost to the point where it was healing the same amount for slightly less mana, and it was actually more mana efficient. In catalysm, the opposite was true: You more or less took Healing Surge off your bars and never touched it again. Is either of these still the case? Or is Healing Surge usable, and GHW still your go-to "big heal"?

That got changed quickly in beta. GHW is still better, but HS is not completely terrible like it was in Cata.

As far as gemming:
In cata, it was "Go Intellect or Go Home." With the removal of our ability to spam LB and get mana back, coupled with Intellect no longer increasing our mana pool, spirit became a hell of a lot more important going into MoP. Is our gemming priority now Int=Spirit>secondary-stats-i'll-ask-about-in-a-moment? What gems should I use for different slots now?

For gemming, most of us go Spirit heavy, using hybrid gems when suitable such as Int/Spi or Spi/Mastery or Spi/Crit. Rest would be pure blue Spirit gems.

Stat Priority:
Can someone layout the new haste breakpoints for me, what they do, and the importance of reaching each one, if breakpoint is better for 25m and optional in 10m and vice versa?
As far as spirit is concerned, once I hit 90, what's a good spirit level? Whats the "magic number" that works for most people?
Haste vs Mastery vs Crit; which one wins out here? In cata, I remember reforging off all of my crit, getting my spirit to a level where I don't run oom, and then dumping everything into mastery/haste. What's the current priority?

http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t130574-resto_its_raining_heals_5_2_a/#Haste

Currently, Haste is acting funny for HST and HTT break points, so those breakpoints are generally ignored due to the incosistency that they give. Capped mana pools do not favor Haste a lot, so going for Mastery or Crit (which one being a matter of preference more or less) is preferred unless you can push towards the second Healing Rain breakpoint which is at 7613 for non-green midgets.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11770
I can only speak of my experiences in LFR and lower so far this xpac (sprinkled with lots of following shaman forum posts), so take this with a grain of salt.

So to start, I do have a vague idea of the new spells and abilities I've gained, and some that I've lost. HTT looks promising, Ascendance looks nice, all that good stuff. I know from looking at the final beta builds that the Riptide Glyph and Chain Healing glyphs were less than desirable, CH situational at best. All that good stuff. Whatever.

HTT is pretty much required for a resto shaman, because the other two talents are lackluster comparatively (and really, HTT is wonderful). Riptide glyph, most people say isn't worth taking because RT basically becomes a horrible rejuv, and can get taxing on mana. Chain heal's glyph...can be helpful in raids, but CH is a pretty horrible heal anyway (too expensive for too little healing to really spam).

What I've come to ask about is, what has changed?
In the beta, there was some talk about GHW just being useless, as HS got a boost to the point where it was healing the same amount for slightly less mana, and it was actually more mana efficient. In catalysm, the opposite was true: You more or less took Healing Surge off your bars and never touched it again. Is either of these still the case? Or is Healing Surge usable, and GHW still your go-to "big heal"?

As far as GHW vs HS, I've not really noticed HS being more worthwhile...with tidal waves, GHW is only a slightly longer cast (base .25 sec, less with haste), heals for more (crits notwithstanding), and is cheaper. HS gets its crit buffed with tidal waves, which could be more helpful with resurgence (although iirc, HS returns less mana). I personally don't use healing surge a lot, unless that extra bit of cast time might make a difference + the crit wouldn't be wasted (if tidal waves is up).

As far as gemming:
In cata, it was "Go Intellect or Go Home." With the removal of our ability to spam LB and get mana back, coupled with Intellect no longer increasing our mana pool, spirit became a hell of a lot more important going into MoP. Is our gemming priority now Int=Spirit>secondary-stats-i'll-ask-about-in-a-moment? What gems should I use for different slots now?

Yeah, there's no "gem pure intellect" thing going on anymore. Most of the time you're going to want spirit, int+spirit, spirit+haste/mastery, until you have a comfortable amount. So in a way, it's more Spirit>Int>other stats.

Stat Priority:
Can someone layout the new haste breakpoints for me, what they do, and the importance of reaching each one, if breakpoint is better for 25m and optional in 10m and vice versa?
As far as spirit is concerned, once I hit 90, what's a good spirit level? Whats the "magic number" that works for most people?
Haste vs Mastery vs Crit; which one wins out here? In cata, I remember reforging off all of my crit, getting my spirit to a level where I don't run oom, and then dumping everything into mastery/haste. What's the current priority?

I can't really answer the haste breakpoints. There are supposed to be breakpoints for HTT and HST, but they've been buggy and unreliable.

Spirit...I wouldn't really say it's a magic number. Basically, just keep stacking it until you feel comfortable with your own regen. You'll have some people say they're happy with x spirit, and other people say that y spirit works for them.

The popular opinion right now seems to be to aim for at least 50% mastery, and after that is more personal preference (sans haste breakpoints).

03/14/2013 01:35 PMPosted by Kiango
My game isn't installed, and for some reason it's showing me as elemental/subtlety (world's No#1 Sub Shaman HOLLA).

I remember back around the time MoP came out, my shaman was showing up the same way. I screencapped it just for the wtfery.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640

Long story short, there isn't really a meaningful haste breakpoint because your healing totems don't scale properly with haste. Sometimes they get the extra tick and sometimes they don't. People seem to like having 10k spirit, but YMMV.


I wouldn't exactly say there isn't a meaningful haste breakpoint. I aim for 10%ish for the extra HR tick(w/ spriest/ele/boomkin haste buff). After that the ELW haste breakpoint is pretty bad for 10m healing. Since our synergy has more to do with crit/mastery what he said about 50%ish mastery is correct, then your closest haste breakpoint aside from the totem breakpoints, then crit. High level crit builds with 50%ish mastery are performing very good as far as output and efficiency, but currently in this tier we are miles behind the next closest healer in front of us.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7105
Currently, Haste is acting funny for HST and HTT break points, so those breakpoints are generally ignored due to the incosistency that they give. Capped mana pools do not favor Haste a lot, so going for Mastery or Crit (which one being a matter of preference more or less) is preferred unless you can push towards the second Healing Rain breakpoint which is at 7613 for non-green midgets.


Ahh, perfect. Thank you.

How is that Chain Lightning glyph working out in your Subtlety spec? LOL.
Topping ALL the meters, thank u
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
GHW is always your go to big heal, the only reason to use Healing Surge is when in the extra moment it takes to cast GHW, the player will die. That said, there's no reason to "take it off your actionbar" especially if you go for a crit build, it's throughput is not too far behind GHW and if used sparingly will not kill the mana


Last night i spammed HS like a champ. This is how it worked out.

Spell /#of casts /Total Healing /Normal /Crit /Average
HS /(33) /3362374 / 490826 /2871548 /101890.1
GHW /(15) /1063727 /427416 /636311 /70915.1

Made me scratch my head.
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/15/2013 6:04 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Last night i spammed HS like a champ. This is how it worked out.

Spell /#of casts /Total Healing /Normal /Crit /Average
HS /(33) /3362374 / 490826 /2871548 /101890.1
GHW /(15) /1063727 /427416 /636311 /70915.1

Made me scratch my head.

Your GHW's landed too late. You overhealed!

Seriously though, in the EJ thread is a pretty good breakdown (post 15, last post on first page) of the HPS/HPM of GHW/HS (TW's and tier14 bonuses as variables).

At 20% crit, HS is higher HPS by a good 25%. GHW is higher HPM by ~10% without set bonuses.

Of course, since HS lands sooner, it is less likely to be overheal / more likely to get more deep healing.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Of course, since HS lands sooner, it is less likely to be overheal / more likely to get more deep healing.


Yeah the overheal was by a bit more. And i only did it on one fight to see what would happen. Was just putting it out that HS isn't as terrible as people make it out to be.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640
I know HS spamming isn't viable for HPM but with high crit percentages is it a viable substitute for GHW(I.E. rather than 2 GHW's, using HS followed w/ tw'd hw's instead?)
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
askmrrobot.com


No healer should ever be using this.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930


No healer should ever be using this.

There's no reason not to. As far as gemming goes, there are only a few viable ones for each slot. A resto shammy should only ever put Sparkling River's Heart in a blue socket, for example.

As far as reforge/enchants go, you can edit all the stat weights to your liking. If you don't want a straight Mastery or Crit build, but prefer something in between, or something different altogether, you can do that. Askmrrobot just shows you the best way to get where you want to be with your current gear.


No, no it doesn't. Askmrrobot does awesome things like tell me, as Disc, to reforge for Spirit during T13 content and drop Mastery. It told me to reforge out of HASTE and into SPIRIT on my DRUID during the same tier, despite the fact that I needed every piece of Haste I could get to hit the correct breakpoint and Druids did not need Spirit.

It's really not a good site unless you know EXACTLY what to do with it. If you don't, it's useless. Instead of telling someone mindlessly, "go to Askmrrobot and it will tell you everything" (which it won't), maybe you should try giving her the actual information? Or is it that you've been using Askmrorobt so long that you don't know? It wouldn't surprise me.
Edited by Tiriel on 3/15/2013 3:56 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
03/15/2013 03:46 PMPosted by Kuwilei


No healer should ever be using this.

There's no reason not to. As far as gemming goes, there are only a few viable ones for each slot. A resto shammy should only ever put Sparkling River's Heart in a blue socket, for example.

As far as reforge/enchants go, you can edit all the stat weights to your liking. If you don't want a straight Mastery or Crit build, but prefer something in between, or something different altogether, you can do that. Askmrrobot just shows you the best way to get where you want to be with your current gear.


Right, but most people coming here to ask for stat info aren't in a place in their healing career where they are equipped to figure out what their stat weights should be, so telling them to go to Askmrrobot is a terrible suggestion because they go there and use the default settings, not understanding that they're missing a crucial step in between.

Reforge tools are there to tell us how to most efficiently get what we want out of our gear, once we tell the tool what we're looking for. The reforge tool's designer's idea of what your class needs is not at all what the majority of people should be using.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
As far as reforge/enchants go, you can edit all the stat weights to your liking. If you don't want a straight Mastery or Crit build, but prefer something in between, or something different altogether, you can do that. Askmrrobot just shows you the best way to get where you want to be with your current gear.


You don't need askmrrobot to tell you how to not reforge everything into Mastery. You just, you know, don't reforge everything into mastery.

The problem with those sites for healers is that they imply there are correct, specific numbers for every stat that will lead to the highest possible HPS. And that just isn't true, outside of maybe haste breakpoints, or if you are looking at how much spirit will buy you some extra casts. Secondary stats for healers are not the same as for some dps classes. You don't say "A resto shaman must stack mastery to X, then go for Y crit, and Z haste, to achieve the highest possible HPS."

Edit: by contrast, for dps, sims and sites like askmrrobot are necessary for a couple of reasons. First, they can help tell you the most efficient way to get to, but not over, the hit cap. Second, for some dps specs, maximizing dps requires some careful balancing of secondary stats. For example, back when I was playing Arcane in Firelands, Arcane had to have the proper balance of Mastery and Haste, and the balanced changed depending on the amount of intellect (i.e., spellpower and mana pool). Many good Arcane mages used Rawr to figure out the proper balance.
Edited by Taymage on 3/15/2013 4:16 PM PDT
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