Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15 - Pt 2

90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Original thread, that has hit the post cap.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8196649753

It is really early, but the first heroic logs are starting to populate in for Jin'rokh, Horridon, Tortos and Megaera. Here is how it now looks.

25H - 39.8% behind
10H - 59.8% behind

As far as raid representation, in 10 man, Shaman representation from Normal to Heroic dropped 15%. In 25 man, Shaman representation dropped 20% from Normal to Heroic.

Although these are early numbers, they are really alarming because
(1) It appears the output gap actually gets higher in heroic modes, which seems to invalidate the argument that the nature of Shaman mastery will make us better on harder fights.
(2) 2 of the 4 fights that early logs are dominated by (Jin'rokh and Megaera) are as favorable for Resto Shaman as any fights this tier. When logs from fights that are extremely bad for Shaman that are later in the tier start to trickle in, the gap may even get worse.
(3) Raid representation is starting to drop in all formats, which indicates that Resto Shaman are being benched or are rerolling.
90 Pandaren Monk
13165
10H - 59.8% behind


Seriously? It's really that bad?
90 Troll Shaman
13125
if firelands was bad, this is way worse...
90 Draenei Shaman
8960
And still not even a tweet or a blue post acknowledging this?...
90 Goblin Shaman
10460
In that case, I will repost my suggestions, on this part of the thread.


Some suggestions:
  • Redesign Manatide: Buffs raid with a flat 200%, not adjusted by the shaman's personal spirit levels.
  • Chain Heal Glyph baseline, with no CD.
  • Replace old Glyph with new one: Removes/Reduces the penalty per jump of Chain Heal, add 4 second CD.
  • Buff Chain Heal by 25%, and remove the synergy with Riptide (it makes the bonus feel mandatory, not rewarding).
  • Increase the chance to proc Resurgence per jump of CH - reward maximum/proper usage.
  • Allow Chain Heal to benefit from Ancestral Awakening.
  • More ideas:
  • Add new spell that Shares CD with Healing Rain. AoE heals allies within 30 yard radius of the Shaman for 10 seconds, at about 50% less healing than the output of Healing Rain, healing allies furthest away for more. Healing Rain should be considered the go to spell for stack phases.
  • Allow Earthliving overheals to apply a absorb/bubble effect.
  • Edited by Unitos on 3/19/2013 10:38 PM PDT
    90 Goblin Shaman
    10460
    25H - 39.8% behind
    10H - 59.8% behind

    Could you post the links to the logs, so I can look at them in more detail, please?
    90 Goblin Shaman
    10345
    im going to add some of the best ideas that I've seen over the course of the previous (post capped) thread, im not reposting things that Unitos suggested.

    1) Have chain heal use TW stacks and increase its haste.

    2) Give a moderate/small "initial" heal to RT with the glyph so we don't lose all the synergy with our other abilities (AA/WS) as well as a modest throughput buff to spread healing that is still small enough to not get spammed in pvp.

    3) Flatline all of the chain heal bounces so it just heals 4 targets equally and scale throughput accordingly. Change the glyph of chaining (that is now baked in) to make chain heal instant cast but have a 4-6 second CD (really only works if you have equal chain heals or too OP in pvp).

    4) Make the level 90 talents more attractive to resto. Add a healing component to elemental blast as an example.
    90 Draenei Shaman
    17105
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall/25H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
    03/19/2013 10:14 PMPosted by Thaimaishu
    10H - 59.8% behind


    Seriously? It's really that bad?


    Pretty sure it's not that bad; those numbers were/are from being compared against the top healer, as well as overall, and thus are very skewed.

    That has never been an acceptable standard for comparison in the past, not sure why it is now.
    90 Goblin Shaman
    10345
    pretty sure all i saw in those raidbot parses was:

    NERF HOLY PRIEST OMG.

    and... did anybody else notice that everyone elses average parse has increased (pretty significantly) from the new tier to the old? and rsham is flatline in 10? *wince* never a good thing when you get more gear/harder to heal content and your hps goes slightly down.

    Also no matter how you look at the averages... we are still significantly beneath every other spec, not like theres some way to view these numbers in a positive light. Maybe 59% is a little overkill but I'd say we're doing about 80% of the hps on average (not including holy priest which is clearly an outlier in the other direction) for 10m and something like.. 83% of the average on 25m... which are not numbers to scoff at when you are basically saying if you raided with 6 "average" heroic healers... and then 6 "average" heroic shaman healers... you'd need to add an entire shaman to do the same amount of healing as 6 of any other class. Hard to keep that on your raid team when numbers get tight :/

    also its pretty easy to discount that 1 holy priest log because there are very few holy priests in that report so yeah. Same to a lesser extent for holy priests in 25m (although not nearly as bad).
    90 Dwarf Warrior
    13665
    I've been watching a lot of Slootbag's Twitch stream (the guild Midwinter, they're currently 7/13 heroic and #13 on wowprogress) and their Resto shaman in consistently last or next to last on Healing Done. Every fight.

    It's to the point where I'm wondering why they even bring a Resto shaman, is it just for Mana Tide?
    90 Troll Shaman
    13250
    It's to the point where I'm wondering why they even bring a Resto shaman, is it just for Mana Tide?


    That and to be useful with CD's every 1minute rotating acendance and HTT, and SLT if there is a spot in the fight for it.

    Plus, as much as you might believe otherwise, friendship does exist in this game. Even in such progressed guilds.

    edit: and on a side note i'd like my hair back as well.
    Edited by Harpoa on 3/20/2013 5:53 AM PDT
    90 Troll Shaman
    17270
    I'm actually a little shocked the drop off was so big...
    Percent of healers that are restoshaman in 25N - 21.56%
    Percent of healers that are restoshaman in 25H - 17.18%

    So yeah, about 1/5th of resto shamans are being dumped. People still will bring an underperforming class for a variety of reasons that are unrelated to the class, like friendship/healer lead/lack of an equally skilled player on a FotM class (or an alt).

    From what I've seen of holy priests, when people play them they can do really well. But giving up 70+k dps from a healer to have them give roughly the same throughput in heals. It usually isn't worth it. Especially when people don't overgear the dps check part of progression yet.
    90 Pandaren Shaman
    8525
    I suggested this back in Cata and I think it's still relevant......

    The Tidal Waves effect on Healing Surge needs to change and could be an answer to spread healing issues. The problem right now is either HS or GHW is always going to be the best choice under Tidal Waves. In Cata GHW was the correct choice and now it's HS. Either we get GHW as a super fast big heal under Tidal Waves or the math shows that a just as fast HS winds up better because of Crit and how it performs as a stat for Shaman.

    If Healing Surge split its healing over multiple targets in some way while Tidal Waves was up Shaman would not only get another AoE healing tool to help with spread Raids but GHW and HS would finally be distinct choices.

    Maybe HS could splash it's healing around the target in a 15 yard circle. Doesn't increase direct healing since the heal would be split but if the splash could proc ELW the combo could add up. Anything to split the healing and help with spread raids.
    Edited by Indyana on 3/20/2013 6:36 AM PDT
    90 Draenei Shaman
    17105
    I've been watching a lot of Slootbag's Twitch stream (the guild Midwinter, they're currently 7/13 heroic and #13 on wowprogress) and their Resto shaman in consistently last or next to last on Healing Done. Every fight.

    It's to the point where I'm wondering why they even bring a Resto shaman, is it just for Mana Tide?


    Mana Tide is the only compelling reason to bring a Resto Shaman. Most of them are approaching 20,000 raid buffed Spirit, which means that every Mana Tide drop gives each healer around 70,000 mana if you straight up Spirit stack, including Spirit on every item, Spirit food and flask and double Spirit trinkets. That regen is possibly enough to warrant the terrible throughput on fights where healer regen is a limiting factor. Other than that, there is no reason to bring a Resto Shaman
    -Healing Tide is nice, but Tranq and Divine Hymn are pretty comparable
    -Stormlash Totem increases raid DPS, but you can get more raid DPS from a Disc Priest or Mistweaver than you get from an extra Stormlash Totem
    -Devotion Aura is better than SLT 90% of the time, because the fights are so spread out that you can rarely get effective use of SLT on anything but maybe a melee group. They further gutted SLT by not making it redistribute health through a healing debuff mechanic on at least one fight this tier (Tortos).

    The scary part is, these logs are all from the first half of ToT. The second half of ToT is far less Resto Shaman friendly, so it is only likely to get worse. I fully expect Heroic Lei Shen to be as ugly for Resto Shaman as Heroic Rag was - if not worse.
    90 Troll Shaman
    17270
    Heroic Rag didn't have gusting winds and the level of constant movement that transitions have on Lei Shen.
    Healing Rag Transitions was hard but nobody's spread healing was that amazing back then (well paladins), and you could basically turret heal as long as you didn't get the fire debuff. During the first phase you could basically heal the seed explosions via HST if people used personals properly (feint/AMS/Div Prot/etc). But mainly the raid stacked for most of the worse unavoidable raid damage, and you could turret heal for most of the fight (unless you got a boulder/fire trail debuff).

    Lei Shen I feel like I spend 1/3rd of the fight running, and when I'm not running the raid is taking almost no damage. It is whenever I am running (going between pillars, wind gusts, the entire transition) that it is just a state of "when I can stop to heal??!?!". I feel like I'm just dropping a healing rain during the transitions and my HST totem and HOPING I don't get too many static bombs on my side as we constantly stack and spread. It actually felt worse on 25 man because you have to move farther.

    Seriously, when people say... just buff Chain Heal numbers/range, I look at Lei Shen and just think... that won't help. When we can't be a turret our toolkit breaks.
    90 Draenei Shaman
    7640
    ^ that
    Pretty sure blizzard wanted to get away from that after T9/10 and have failed to do so.
    90 Troll Shaman
    13250
    Pretty sure blizzard wanted to get away from that after T9/10 and have failed to do so.


    T9/10 have nothing to do with T15. Back then we were gcd capped, our crit was through the roof, and the way ws worked mana was infinite. Plus coupled with the T10 set bonus it made CH the only thing to cast.

    At this point in the game, if they buff CH it won't go back to that playstyle as our mana is limited.

    I been stewing on the idea of CH glyph making it an instant and incurring a cd and it doesn't seem all that bad. Would be helpful on some fights.
    Edited by Harpoa on 3/20/2013 7:31 AM PDT
    90 Pandaren Shaman
    10440
    Heres some data I pulled from my logs from last nights raid. We 2 healed everything except for Mageara on 10m Normal, we 3 healed with a resto druid.

    Resto Shaman 505 eq ilvl - 51.38 Mastery, 18.41% crit, 2476 haste
    Holy Pally 511 eq ilvl - 27.23 Mastery, 12.96% crit, 2716 haste

    Mageara

    Shaman
    Healing Rain - 9338839 Total Healing - 980 Hits (6012 avg) 288 Crits (11966 avg)
    Healing Stream - 4993067 Total Healing - 102 Ticks (30713 avg) 31 Crits (60008 avg)
    Healing Wave - 3157082 Total Healing - 50 Hits (43247 avg) 13 Crits (76514 avg)
    Chain Heal - 2001065 Total Healing - 57 Hits (25886 avg) 11 Crits (47775 avg)

    Pally
    Illuminated Healing - 11674564 Total Healing - 1246 Hits (9369 avg)
    Light of Dawn - 7738066 Total Healing - 358 Hits (13204 avg) 104 Crits (28952 avg)
    Beacon of Light - 5689016 Total Healing - 1533 Hits (3711 avg)
    Arcing Light - 5272505 Total Healing - 380 Ticks (9442 avg) 91 Crits (18507 avg)
    Holy Radiance - 2957496 Total Healing - 241 Hits (8751 avg) 57 Crits (14882 avg)

    Pretty sad that our only option is to keep healing rain down on cooldown even on 10m. Obviously Healing Stream and Healing Wave are ahead of Chain Healing and our best option for aoe healing hps and hpm, EVEN IN STACKED SITUATIONS where chain heal is supposed to be ideal. Clearly pally aoe and passive heals are edging out resto shaman even under ideal stacking situations right now, which I honestly don't mind, but at least give us something to do when spread and aoe healing besides hoping ppl can stay in healing rain for the duration.

    Here is the log for reference
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0bk7o2pdkfhah4qf/sum/healingDone/?s=7583&e=8073
    90 Pandaren Shaman
    10440
    Continued from last post:

    10m Normal Durumu - Mainly a single target healing fight

    Shaman

    Healing Stream - 3808122 Total Healing - 89 Ticks (27785 avg) 23 Crits (58054 avg)
    Greater Healing Wave - 3588563 Total Healing - 30 Hits (84590 avg) 7 Crits (150120 avg)
    Riptide - 3310818 Total Healing - 189 Ticks (6717 avg) 27 Hits (24494 avg) 75 Crit (18397 avg)
    Healing Wave - 1221132 Total Healing - 23 Hits (37806 avg) 4 Crits (87895 avg)

    Pally

    Illuminated Healing - 5343177 Total Healing - 468 Hits (11417 avg)
    Holy Shock - 3050711 Total Healing - 46 Hits (31288 avg)
    Eternal Flame - 2175669 Healing - 167 Ticks(3210 avg) 40 Crit(12844 avg) 20 Hit (50511 avg)
    Divine Light - 945891 Healing - 13 Hits (60740 avg) 1 Crit (156267)

    I realize our pally didn't do quite enough single target healing to be able to compare divine light accurately, but I was impressed with our ability as shaman for single target healing. With the exception of our extremely weak spread, aoe dmg + movement, healing, we are able to compete very well in single target healing situations. Healing Stream, riptide, and our HW GHW are in a very good spot right now in comparison to what the other classes have. The only problem I see is that really none of the fights are designed without a lot of spread, aoe dmg, and heavy movement, and we can't struggle greatly keeping the raid alive.
    This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

    Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

    Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

    Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

    Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

    Forums Code of Conduct

    Report Post # written by

    Reason
    Explain (256 characters max)
    Submit Cancel

    Reported!

    [Close]