Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15 - Pt 2

90 Gnome Priest
8430
I don't think each hop can proc AA, as for resurgence I should have reworded it, let each hop be able to regen the same mana as hw/ghw but at a lower rate.
90 Tauren Priest
0
I feel stupid for asking this, but I thought it already worked that way? Did they change it between the last time I mained a Shaman and now?


CH definitely procs resurgence from any critical heal it produces, but crit CH does not proc AA, only single target heals can.
Edited by Qùess on 3/26/2013 1:42 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/26/2013 01:41 PMPosted by Qùess
I feel stupid for asking this, but I thought it already worked that way? Did they change it between the last time I mained a Shaman and now?


CH definitely procs resurgence from any critical heal it produces, but crit CH does not proc AA, only single target heals can.


Okie dokie. I can't remember if it ever procced AA now that I think about it (though...I thought it did..I can remember the sound going off during CH spam), but I was sure the bounces procced resurgence.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12580
03/26/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Tiriel
Word twisting and hyperbole, tsk tsk. Even I felt that way 100% I wouldn't of made a thread specifically for dev eyes. I do disagree with people using raidbots in such a manner and people thinking we need 20-30% buffs.


Nah, you didn't say that. You just said that you'd be fine without buffs, because you don't suck (which directly implies that people who feel they NEED buffs DO suck, btw). You went on to suggest that the issue is that Shaman are playing mana bots and have no idea what to do when they can't drop healing rain (which implies that they don't know what they're doing, or they're doing it "wrong"). And then you went on to say that the issue is that they're having trouble adapting from the T14 playstyle to the T15 playstyle (again implying that it's a skill issue).

You don't "suck" so you're not having problems. Ergo, anyone actually having problems probably sucks (or at least isn't "doing it right" or "doesn't know what they're doing").


You shouldn't mistake Sensations for me. We are not the same person.

I just wanted to clarify that, because there is no reason for him to get caught up in the vicious backlash that I usually have to deal with from certain types of people.

Riôt
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
You shouldn't mistake Sensations for me. We are not the same person.

I just wanted to clarify that, because there is no reason for him to get caught up in the vicious backlash that I usually have to deal with from certain types of people.

Riôt


The conversation didn't happen in this thread, it happened in the IRC. :-P
So back on topic; if they treated each chain heal bounce as a separate heal, meaning that each bounce can proc AA and resurgence would it be too powerful? They could lower the chance for each bounce to proc resurgence so that our mana regen wouldn't be a huge issue, but having each hop be able to proc AA would help a lot.

Each jump can already proc Resurgence, but why CH can't proc AA is a mystery. I'm not fond of having a diminished chance to proc X per jump compared to base heals as we already got that on ELW and ELW is hardly noticeable nowadays.

I do wish MTT was turned back into a flat mana return like it was in Wrath, or the original version of Cata (minus temp spirit buffs of course). So long as it scales off our Spirit, gearing out of Spirit feels just negative for our co-healers. It is less of an issue in 10m where you only have 1 or maybe 2 other healers with you, but in 25m the utility from MTT is just too good. Personally, I started to reforge out Spirit and focus on Crit/Mastery, but haven't had a try to test it in 10m yet as now I?m going full time Ele... :(
81 Gnome Death Knight
10100
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316652948455305216

We buffed Healing Rain, Chain Heal and Earthliving by 20%. Live in NA and China. Rest of the world in the next day or two.


Not sure how much that helps if people aren't stacking a whole lot or if that bumps chain heal up from bleh to okay but ...
90 Pandaren Monk
12990
03/26/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Tiriel
Word twisting and hyperbole, tsk tsk. Even I felt that way 100% I wouldn't of made a thread specifically for dev eyes. I do disagree with people using raidbots in such a manner and people thinking we need 20-30% buffs.


Nah, you didn't say that. You just said that you'd be fine without buffs, because you don't suck (which directly implies that people who feel they NEED buffs DO suck, btw). You went on to suggest that the issue is that Shaman are playing mana bots and have no idea what to do when they can't drop healing rain (which implies that they don't know what they're doing, or they're doing it "wrong"). And then you went on to say that the issue is that they're having trouble adapting from the T14 playstyle to the T15 playstyle (again implying that it's a skill issue).

You don't "suck" so you're not having problems. Ergo, anyone actually having problems probably sucks (or at least isn't "doing it right" or "doesn't know what they're doing").


FYI, Sensations, this is probably why you had Druid stalkers for your last thread. Even if you don't mean it that way, a lot of people are going to think you do. And it doesn't help that a lot of people who say stuff like this DO mean it in a patronizing fashion.

Not to jump into a squabble but Sensation created the same "type" thread when the original of this thread was posted, maybe even before. His/Her points are valid as well as everyone elses points. Unfotunately at this point, and I was surprised it took this long, the thread has devolved into the typical forums thread which doesn't provide anything but a place to vent.

my .02

Continue on.


There's only so many times the same thing can be said over a period of ~45 pages. When new people wander in they either wonder what's going on, or they say something along the lines of "You'll take your Manabot raid spot and you'll damn well like it, you ungrateful mouth-breathers" and quite effectively poke the proverbial hornet nest. As far as the WoW forums go regarding class balance, this is about as tame and reasonable as it's ever likely to get, particularly when the concerns are justified. Most class balance threads wish they could remain this "calm" for this long.

And FYI, Tiberria made a thread first. :)

EDIT:

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316652948455305216

We buffed Healing Rain, Chain Heal and Earthliving by 20%. Live in NA and China. Rest of the world in the next day or two.


Not sure how much that helps if people aren't stacking a whole lot or if that bumps chain heal up from bleh to okay but ...


So basically they did exactly what I thought they were going to do and buffed everything that will have little to no impact on PvP. if that doesn't make it glaringly obvious at this point that it's a PvP vs PvE balance issue and at the very least Resto Shaman Mastery needs a major revamp, I don't know what will.

I am also extremely skeptical this will make any meaningful impact, because numbers tweaks aren't the real problem, but will see if this at least satisfies the people who only care about HPS meters and not actual Shaman class problems. Grats Resto Shaman, you went from "You are fine" to "20% boosts to X, Y, and Z" in record time.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 3/26/2013 2:10 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
17105
03/26/2013 01:46 PMPosted by Riôt


Nah, you didn't say that. You just said that you'd be fine without buffs, because you don't suck (which directly implies that people who feel they NEED buffs DO suck, btw). You went on to suggest that the issue is that Shaman are playing mana bots and have no idea what to do when they can't drop healing rain (which implies that they don't know what they're doing, or they're doing it "wrong"). And then you went on to say that the issue is that they're having trouble adapting from the T14 playstyle to the T15 playstyle (again implying that it's a skill issue).

You don't "suck" so you're not having problems. Ergo, anyone actually having problems probably sucks (or at least isn't "doing it right" or "doesn't know what they're doing").


You shouldn't mistake Sensations for me. We are not the same person.

I just wanted to clarify that, because there is no reason for him to get caught up in the vicious backlash that I usually have to deal with from certain types of people.

Riôt


You generate vicious backlash because you make arrogant statements essentially painting the entire Resto Shaman community as needing to learn to play because you can not accept thousands of parses and the opinions of hundreds of Resto Shaman as actuality. What makes the backlash happen is that
(1) You make sweeping statements essentially pinning the output issues as "you need to l2p" but fail to back that up with any substantiation on how exactly you feel Resto Shaman output is affected by not adapting/using their toolkit correctly. Statements like that are baseless and useless unless you are going to back them up with specifics.
(2) You have 0 relevant raid experience this expansion. You haven't seen the fights, haven't healed the damage patterns, and haven't played the class on those fights. Your opinion would very likely change if you actually experienced the fights on a Resto Shaman doing 25H progression.
(3) You obviously don't understand the spec or the class. Making general statements assuming it's a lack of use of toolkit, etc are worthless and irrelevant if you are not going to substantiate what you think the majority of Resto Shaman are doing wrong.

I get the feeling that you aren't willing to discuss details or go outside general statements because you either (1) don't know what you are talking about or (2) realize that it is harder to debunk nebulous statements than it is for experienced Resto Shaman to debunk your theories of where our performance is.
100 Tauren Shaman
HC
17885
Not to jump into a squabble but Sensation created the same "type" thread when the original of this thread was posted, maybe even before. His/Her points are valid as well as everyone elses points. Unfotunately at this point, and I was surprised it took this long, the thread has devolved into the typical forums thread which doesn't provide anything but a place to vent.

my .02

Continue on.


Tiberria made his first, I wanted the developers to get a different viewpoint in terms of mechanics and not raidbots so I made the thread so it could be sent to them. :p

FYI, Sensations, this is probably why you had Druid stalkers for your last thread. Even if you don't mean it that way, a lot of people are going to think you do. And it doesn't help that a lot of people who say stuff like this DO mean it in a patronizing fashion.


- Removed, decided it was too rude lol.
Edited by Sensations on 3/26/2013 2:12 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
The real issue at hand....

Stone bulwark totem is sooooo good
On any given fight its my 1 or 2 healing recieved. I am so grateful for this totem.

Don't forget about sbt!
100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316652948455305216

We buffed Healing Rain, Chain Heal and Earthliving by 20%. Live in NA and China. Rest of the world in the next day or two.


Not sure how much that helps if people aren't stacking a whole lot or if that bumps chain heal up from bleh to okay but ...


Holy crap. Also LMAO.
90 Gnome Priest
8430
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316652948455305216 doesn't help as that much imo, they're basically saying that shaman shouldn't be able to keep with any healer while moving.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316652948455305216We buffed Healing Rain, Chain Heal and Earthliving by 20%. Live in NA and China. Rest of the world in the next day or two.Not sure how much that helps if people aren't stacking a whole lot or if that bumps chain heal up from bleh to okay but ...


Well that's about as lazy as it gets.
100 Tauren Shaman
HC
17885
The real issue at hand....

Stone bulwark totem is sooooo good
On any given fight its my 1 or 2 healing recieved. I am so grateful for this totem.

Don't forget about sbt!


But it doesn't show up on meters! I refuse!

Also: Grats 25m on the buffs!
Edited by Sensations on 3/26/2013 2:16 PM PDT
90 Gnome Priest
8430
Well that's about as lazy as it gets.
We all know GC hates shamans and also can't expect too much from a hotfix. Too much work to do any spell redesign really.
Edited by Jaike on 3/26/2013 2:17 PM PDT
100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
03/26/2013 02:14 PMPosted by Sadiemay
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316652948455305216We buffed Healing Rain, Chain Heal and Earthliving by 20%. Live in NA and China. Rest of the world in the next day or two.Not sure how much that helps if people aren't stacking a whole lot or if that bumps chain heal up from bleh to okay but ...


Well that's about as lazy as it gets.


It reminds me of "disc isn't doing so well? Let's buff the s**t out of PoH".

Edit: "shaman are doing poorly this tier, largely with spread healing. I know, let's buff healing rain and chain heal". LOL.
Edited by Taymage on 3/26/2013 2:17 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Also: Grats 25m on the buffs!


It won't make that much of a difference there either. Like i said, lazy. Now HR can be 78% Overhealing instead. GG.
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/26/2013 2:18 PM PDT
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