Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15 - Pt 2

90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/26/2013 04:06 PMPosted by Riôt
Riot, it's like you live in another dimension where people aren't actually offering solutions that have nothing to do with an across-the-board HPS buff.


No, I live in the real world, where two threads that are based on *HPS* get rallied behind, and idea-based threads disappear. This is neither new, nor uncommon, and is the reason GC responds the way he does regarding *HPS.*

If they could make any of the good ideas happen, they probably would. It doesn't look to be the case though, so they do what they can. This response was fairly quick, to be honest.

Riôt


There were tons of good ideas and discussions tossed out, both in this thread, the previous one, and in Sensations' thread.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12410
03/26/2013 04:07 PMPosted by Tiriel


No, I live in the real world, where two threads that are based on *HPS* get rallied behind, and idea-based threads disappear. This is neither new, nor uncommon, and is the reason GC responds the way he does regarding *HPS.*

If they could make any of the good ideas happen, they probably would. It doesn't look to be the case though, so they do what they can. This response was fairly quick, to be honest.

Riôt


There were tons of good ideas and discussions tossed out, both in this thread, the previous one, and in Sensations' thread.


Yes, Tiriel, but that's not what the people rallied behind.

It makes a difference, but the community's focus on HPS is so acute, that good ideas get lost in the storm.

Riôt
90 Blood Elf Mage
17070
You are both blind and offensive. There are dozens of suggestions about how to fix shaman *in this thread*. And frankly, the reason there was any arguing in this thread is because folks like you constantly feel the need to pop in and inform us that we need no buffs, or that combat log aggregates are useless, or that we simply need to L2P. Seriously, give it a rest.
90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
I'm actually kind of curious when someone tweets Ghostcrawler he types something back does he actually mean it? or is he just telling us that they will buff resto shamans around CH and HR just to make us shut up.
100 Blood Elf Priest
12155


There were tons of good ideas and discussions tossed out, both in this thread, the previous one, and in Sensations' thread.


Yes, Tiriel, but that's not what the people rallied behind.

It makes a difference, but the community's focus on HPS is so acute, that good ideas get lost in the storm.

Riôt

You are being willfully blind in exactly the same way GC and the dev team are.

If you (and GC) bothered to actually read, rather than just having knee-jerk reactions to the term "HPS", you would see that what the community is rallying behind is a discussion of structural problems with the spec.

HPS is presented as quantitative evidence of those structural problems. It is a symptom. It is not the disease.
90 Goblin Shaman
10345
Uh, what? What's better for the raid is ideal BY DEFINITION, isn't it?


i guess this wasnt worded well, i would like to do whats best to optomize my personal performance (which i find it fun and more compelling to play) without feeling like i sacrifice what is ideal for the raid (ie stacking an extra 10k spirit that i dont need because its more beneficial for the other 5 healers).

but it doesn't make the spec *broken*, it just makes it *less enjoyable to those specific players*. Different specs are different.


im not sure that anyone can find enjoyment in 10k stat points they dont need except for 1 GCD every 3 minutes... and nobody is saying the class is unplayable, the whole argument here is that its not engaging and fun to be brought to raids as a mana bot with raid CDs. I've been playing shaman for years, I have a healer alt that I raided on of every class at least at some point in Cata and monk in MoP. I like shaman mechanics, its what is most enjoyable (for me) of the healing classes... I don't like that some of our toolkit is just flat out dysfunctional.

Pick your poison, lower throughput but still brought to raids, or average throughput and ride the rollercoaster of balance/nerfs which often means you will get sat for stronger healers during progression.


And this is what I find facepalm. We don't want to be FotM and get throughput buffs through the roof. We want our BASELINE abilities that we have been using since Wrath at least (RT and CH) to WORK and be EFFECTIVE. We want a tool to heal people that aren't in a healing rain... I don't care where I fall on the lolmeters.... I care whether or not I have the abilities necessary to heal people when its needed, and this tier there are definitely situations that I struggle with that a lot. I don't want to be mediocre crap when stacked, total crap when not... instead I think its quite fair to say we are "average" when stacked, mediocre crap when not, and if played exceptionally with GREAT CD usage we can perform at the top of non-elite raid groups (situationally). I don't think that this is asking for too much throughput, or to be like a druid, or a monk... or any other class. I want to keep the flavor of shaman, I just want our abilities to work when the raid isn't a totem pole... and when the raid is a totem pole... i dont want to get destroyed by resto druids and holy priests who have extremely strong toolkits for spread out/on the move.
90 Goblin Shaman
10345
also, i'd be ok with these buffs if they did something like... make the glyph of chaining baseline and make chain heal use charges of tidal waves (for a % haste buff) instead of create them. This would make chain heal useful in a wider range, we would still struggle in some facets but would at least have the tools to heal everyone. Right now I'm not sure that chain heal is even usable on a lot of these fights with the buff... guess we'll have to see.
Our general design philosophy is to try and make strengths stronger rather than to eliminate weakness. Better for diversity.

Seems we're stuck in this pseudo-niche, for the sake of 'diversity'. This would make sense if the other healers toolkits had not evolved so much in the last years.
100 Orc Shaman
HC
16845
03/26/2013 05:36 PMPosted by Korghal
Our general design philosophy is to try and make strengths stronger rather than to eliminate weakness. Better for diversity.

Seems we're stuck in this pseudo-niche, for the sake of 'diversity'. This would make sense if the other healers toolkits had not evolved so much in the last years.


Where did he say that? Last I checked no shaman was asking to eliminate our weakness but a Druid doesn't lose healing when they're stacked up and their niche is spread/mobile healing. Why do we lose so much when going spread?
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316676657329094656
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316676657329094656


I think I should stop reading his tweets. I swear my blood pressure rises every time I do.
90 Gnome Priest
8085
I think he is just making !@#$ up as he goes to try and cover his %^- on a half *!@ fix.
100 Draenei Shaman
12110
-
Edited by Elíka on 4/8/2013 4:01 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Mage
17070
03/26/2013 09:16 PMPosted by Elíka
Just bench your Resto Shamans guys and girls.


You'll note that I've been a fierce advocate of buffs being necessary, as well as an advocate of people being able to speak their minds about their feelings the state of shaman healing. But this is hyperbole.
100 Orc Shaman
HC
16845
Just bench your Resto Shamans guys and girls. We had a brief moment in Dragon Soul where we were usable, but overall the spec has been mediocre to downright awful since the end of Wrath. If you don't wanna bench the Shaman then stick it out and hope your guild ties run deeper then your good play. The spec is in serious trouble that will require a decent rework. One we won't see this expansion. The totem rework failed to help the class and the buff proves that Blizzard has no intention of making us better at spread heals. If you aren't in love with your character or if you have the time to level and gear a fast alt then just do that because my time has gotten a lot more enjoyable playing this game when I benched the Shaman


Why would i bench my shaman when I heal perfectly fine w/ my co-healers?
88 Human Mage
8645
03/26/2013 05:56 PMPosted by Tiriel
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/316676657329094656


I think I should stop reading his tweets. I swear my blood pressure rises every time I do.


To be fair, it makes sense. And I agree with him as well to an extent. I guess the problem then lies in the actual raid boss encounters and that they are tuned to favor each strengh (from each healing class) equally, or as similiarly as possible without creating the gap that we saw pre-20% buff.
90 Gnome Priest
8085
With the exception that no other class suffers from movement/spreading out than shamans do.
90 Pandaren Shaman
7640
GC's design philosophy makes little sense to those affected: resto shamans. I'm not entirely sure what our real strength is at this point. it implies that resto shamans should accept their weaknesses and enjoy little bits we shine on. on stacked fights which makes up less than 1/4 of ToT (if you count adds). and even on those fights we don't necessarily "outshine" other classes by much. the gap between us and pretty much any other healer is at least 20% on any other fight. I don't care about topping meters (like priests, pallies and monks consistently top meters) but i don't want to be considerably lower either to the point where i start questioning if i am doing the fight right. on a spread fight, we have so little room to mess up (and what is considered messing up is arbitrary) because our toolkit is super limited.

this is truly a sad design philosophy. in order for other classes to shine, someone has to be oppressed? resto shaman will spend 80% of the time in ToT just feeling insecure and wishing they had rerolled when they still had a chance. I really want to hold out hope for some meaningful changes but i saw this happen with elemental shamans during 5.2 beta. the reluctance from gc to "rock the boat" so to speak is grating and enraging. i wonder his continued ignorance of our class problems is because he lacks any real ideas to tackle the shaman issue. the tweets were quite explicit in which he's made aware of our troubles on spread. and the confused responses from shamans asking him "how does buffing those 3 spells by 20% fix spread healing?" his replies border on the belligerent.

LOL maybe we can start a change.org petition to save the shaman class! pretty please. congress will finally pay heed to our troubles which are at this point amounting to "civil rights" issue.
90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
I think blizzard is missing the point that our ability's combind with boss mechanics don't allow us to use our spells Properly because Chain heal doesn't jump far at all Healing rain is Only for stacking which barely happens in Tot Fights so overall what they did for us was buff our healing for Megaera.
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