Druids: The only healer sans disease removal

90 Human Warlock
7480
Priest: Check
Paladin: Yep
Shaman: Of course
Monk: Duh
Druids: ....

Any chance we can be brought up to par on this?

Thanks!

-Lisella
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90 Gnome Priest
12440
Shaman can't remove Diseases. Curse and Magic only.

Druids actually can cleanse diseases if you Symbiosis a Paladin.
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Actually, that's not true.

Shaman can't cleanse diseases.

In Cataclysm, they rebalanced dispels so every healer would be able to dispel magic debuffs and 2 other things (poisons, diseases, offensive dispels, and curses). Each debuff was able to be dispelled by two classes. The breakdown was as follows:

Priest: Offensive magic and Diseases
Paladins: Diseases and Poisons
Druids: Poisons and Curses
Shaman: Curses and Offensive Magic

This worked perfectly until a 5th healing class was added. Monks just got Poison and Diseases, a copy of Paladins, because there way no way to have perfect balance again with 5 classes. That's why you have a 3rd class able to dispel Diseases.

But Shaman haven't been able to cleanse Diseases since the end of WotLK. And technically, Druids can cleanse Diseases if they use Symbiosis on a Paladin.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14305
All healers are missing something. Priests can't remove curses or poisons. Paladins can't remove curses. Shamans can't remove diseases or poisons. Monks can't remove curses.

Any chance we can be brought up to par on this?


You are. You're missing something. We're missing something. Every healer is in the set of healers that can't remove all debuffs.

It's intended.
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90 Human Priest
19350
Priests and shaman just got the short end of the stick for PvE purposes.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5475
Priests and shaman just got the short end of the stick for PvE purposes.


Not necessarily -- every time I see the dispel alert pop up on protectors, I think "why is the game telling me this? I can't do a damn thing about it". Dispellable buffs can be quite important in PvE, depending on the encounter.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
They can, but 99 times out of 100, I'd rather handle them with Spellsteal from a mage or Mass Dispel from a spriest. Purge from a DPS shaman might be an option for the others. It would never occur to me to make a healer dump mana on purging except as an absolute last resort.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
They can, but 99 times out of 100, I'd rather handle them with Spellsteal from a mage or Mass Dispel from a spriest. Purge from a DPS shaman might be an option for the others. It would never occur to me to make a healer dump mana on purging except as an absolute last resort.


Going to have to disagree with you here. Dispel Magic is dirt cheap compared to Mass Dispel OR Spellsteal.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
Going to have to disagree with you here. Dispel Magic is dirt cheap compared to Mass Dispel OR Spellsteal.

Yes, but Spellsteal can be done by a mage and usually buffs the mage. Mass Dispel from a spriest will strip multiple buffs and any magic debuffs that happen to be out, and the mana cost is irrelevant. Dispel Magic from a spriest or Purge from a DPS shaman would also be fine for a single buff if you have no mages or the buff can't be stolen.

My major point is that purging is generally better assigned to the DPS. It's not a very attractive form of healer utility in PvE. Of course, it's an amazing form of hybrid DPS utility, usually much more attractive than disease/poison-cleansing, so on the whole, I'm happy to take it.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Actually, Mass Dispel WILL strip all debuffs...but only dispel 1 beneficial spell from an enemy target, and only one STACK of it. For instance, on Heroic Windlord, you still have to individually spam dispel.

What about a situation where there is neither a Shaman nor a Spriest? I raided for over a year with a group that had neither.
Edited by Tiriel on 3/19/2013 1:22 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
13720
For instance, on Heroic Windlord, you still have to individually spam dispel.


even assuming you only have one priest dispelling, from what i remember you could still dispel before it got to two stacks... it wasn't ideal (even one stack was going to hurt for a few seconds) but it was doable. I know I did it!

What about a situation where there is neither a Shaman nor a Spriest? I raided for over a year with a group that had neither.


ughhhhhhhhhhhh reasons i don't like doing 10 man anymore. pls all the classes. (ok, we don't have a warrior usually... whatever.)
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70 Tauren Shaman
8590
Priest: Check
Paladin: Yep
Shaman: Of course
Monk: Duh
Druids: ....

Any chance we can be brought up to par on this?

Thanks!

-Lisella


Lol, we can cure disease now? Wow, That's awesome! *Goes out and tries it with some disease-spewing mobs* Oh, wait, nope! Nope, we cannot. Nor have we ever been able to.

Each healer is supposed to have at least 1 thing they can't dispel. Another way they encourage bringing different types of heals along in groups.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/19/2013 01:30 PMPosted by Tsilyi
even assuming you only have one priest dispelling, from what i remember you could still dispel before it got to two stacks... it wasn't ideal (even one stack was going to hurt for a few seconds) but it was doable. I know I did it!


Even if you cast it exactly on CD, it couldn't keep up with the stacks because we had 3 Menders out (10 mans cannot handle the Amber Trappers being up).

ughhhhhhhhhhhh reasons i don't like doing 10 man anymore. pls all the classes. (ok, we don't have a warrior usually... whatever.)


We had THREE Hunters for heroic DS progression. >.<
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Priest: Check
Paladin: Yep
Shaman: Of course
Monk: Duh
Druids: ....

Any chance we can be brought up to par on this?

Thanks!

-Lisella


Lol, we can cure disease now? Wow, That's awesome! *Goes out and tries it with some disease-spewing mobs* Oh, wait, nope! Nope, we cannot. Nor have we ever been able to.

Each healer is supposed to have at least 1 thing they can't dispel. Another way they encourage bringing different types of heals along in groups.


Actually, Shaman could dispel poisons and diseases up until Cataclysm, when they streamlined dispels and removed Cleansing Totem (which used to be two separate totems, one that dispelled diseases and one that dispelled poisons).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14305
03/19/2013 04:21 PMPosted by Tiriel
even assuming you only have one priest dispelling, from what i remember you could still dispel before it got to two stacks... it wasn't ideal (even one stack was going to hurt for a few seconds) but it was doable. I know I did it!


Even if you cast it exactly on CD, it couldn't keep up with the stacks because we had 3 Menders out (10 mans cannot handle the Amber Trappers being up).


Priest offensive dispel doesn't have a cd.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5475
My major point is that purging is generally better assigned to the DPS. It's not a very attractive form of healer utility in PvE. Of course, it's an amazing form of hybrid DPS utility, usually much more attractive than disease/poison-cleansing, so on the whole, I'm happy to take it.


Several (all?) types of cleansing can be done by some DPS (and even some tank) specs, too, if you have the right specs and can trust them to actually be aware of it (and not be such meter !@#$%s that they're unwilling to spend the GCD, but that applies equally to any utility). Heck, even Mages can remove curses, and they're not even from a healing class. I thought this thread was specifically about the inability of *healers* to cover all utility in one class, which makes purges relevant.

Unless you think that cleansing is a type of utility you should specifically expect from healers, while purging (along with interrupts and CC) are things you expect from DPS, which is sort of true, but the way Blizzard has allocated utility among specs is more complicated than that. In some games only healers can cleanse, but this isn't one of those games.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/19/2013 04:54 PMPosted by Nerfheals


Even if you cast it exactly on CD, it couldn't keep up with the stacks because we had 3 Menders out (10 mans cannot handle the Amber Trappers being up).


Priest offensive dispel doesn't have a cd.


But Mass Dispel DOES have a 15 second CD. *bonks* Keep up here!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
Unless you think that cleansing is a type of utility you should specifically expect from healers, while purging (along with interrupts and CC) are things you expect from DPS, which is sort of true, but the way Blizzard has allocated utility among specs is more complicated than that. In some games only healers can cleanse, but this isn't one of those games.

It's not so much a 'should' as an 'is' situation.

Purging, like interrupting, fits well with DPS gameplay; it involves offensive targeting of the right mob at the right time. Anyone who can DPS can purge. A healer needs to allocate additional attention to a part of the fight that's not otherwise their responsibility.

Cleansing fits well with healing gameplay; it involves defensive targeting on raidframes. Anyone who can heal can cleanse. A DPS needs to allocate additional attention to a part of the fight that's not otherwise their responsibility.

Having people split their attention like that usually has a negative impact on their quality of play. So as long as you have enough cleanses from the healers and enough purges/interrupts from the DPS, you're better off having people do the one that's closer to their role.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17145
03/19/2013 01:19 PMPosted by Kaels
Yes, but Spellsteal can be done by a mage and usually buffs the mage.


It is fine unless the mage is an Arcane mage. The mana cost of spellsteal is so prohibitive now (21% of base mana) that even one use of spellsteal is bad. Having said that, not many people are playing Arcane anymore so I guess it's a moot point.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17270
If a druid *really* wants to dispel disease, they can put Symbiosis on a paladin. You get Cleanse and it doesn't share a CD with our regular dispel.
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