The Forsaken miss Terenas

42 Human Hunter
3090
Word of God is amazing. So now we know why they kept his tomb preserved after all this time.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8735
Bolded for your convenience. They don't revere him. He might by a symbol of Alliance controlled Lordaeron but they've solidly rejected that.


Quite the good thing they don't revere him, because Terenas wasn't a god.

03/19/2013 04:47 PMPosted by Arkturas
I was talking about the fact that they miss King Terenas as an icon. That's shocking and cool.


They miss him as an abstract representation of happier times. They don't miss him. It's just "The good old days", back before they were cursed monstrosities.

It has nothing to do with their country, their king, or anything but themselves. They prefer what they were.


How is it possible to get, "They don't miss Terenas", from, "They miss Terenas"?
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90 Draenei Paladin
10400
How is it possible to get, "They don't miss Terenas", from, "They miss Terenas"?


Because it doesn;t say they miss Terenas. It says they miss Terenas as an icon, read, as a representation, of something else. IE, they miss that something else.

They miss the happier times.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8735
03/19/2013 04:52 PMPosted by Arkturas
How is it possible to get, "They don't miss Terenas", from, "They miss Terenas"?


Because it doesn;t say they miss Terenas. It says they miss Terenas as an icon, read, as a representation, of something else. IE, they miss that something else.

They miss the happier times.


So, what, the quote is actually meant to be taken as, "They don't care at all about Terenas, they just liked living under his rule?"

That doesn't make much sense. One leads to the other.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
6120
Quite the good thing they don't revere him, because Terenas wasn't a god.


You don't need to be a god to be revered.

So, what, the quote is actually meant to be taken as, "They don't care at all about Terenas, they just liked living under his rule?"

That doesn't make much sense. One leads to the other.


They don't care about Terenas nor do they miss him as a person. They miss him as an abstract representation of a time without the Scourge.

Seems pretty simple, if still contradictory to pretty much every Forsaken motif in existence.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8735
You don't need to be a god to be revered.


And you don't need to be revered to be missed or loved.

03/19/2013 05:01 PMPosted by Vyrin
They don't care about Terenas nor do they miss him as a person. They miss him as an abstract representation of a time without the Scourge.


Sure. I guess that's why they didn't destroy/built/watched over his tomb. Because that's something you do for a guy you don't care about, right?

And even assuming that they really didn't care about him, this means that they still miss everything he and Lordaeron stood for.

Neither is much good for your case.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12170
Go read Terenas tomb. I'm pretty sure Sylvanas or someone around her wrote that.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
6120
Go read Terenas tomb. I'm pretty sure Sylvanas or someone around her wrote that.


No Forsaken could have written it because it was written by someone who had Terenas' remains.

The Forsaken never possessed his remains, only the Alliance did.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
6120
Sure. I guess that's why they didn't destroy/built/watched over his tomb. Because that's something you do for a guy you don't care about, right?


This slop again?

Why do people keep on citing "they ignore his tomb" as a sign that they like him when in fact it's a sign of the opposite?

And even assuming that they really didn't care about him, this means that they still miss everything he and Lordaeron stood for.


No they don't, as their actions indicate otherwise. They don't miss what Lordaeron stood for or what Lordaeron "used to be." They miss a time without the Scourge.

And considering the fact that the Scourge stood in the way of their world domination for some time, it makes sense.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12170
The Forsaken never possessed his remains, only the Alliance did.


...When Arthas throwed Terenas ash on the ground, the territory was Scourge controlled. Also, Lordearon was already invaded by undeads. Don't think a living was able to go there and write everything down. It was probably a forsaken.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
6120
03/19/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Aeoden
...When Arthas throwed Terenas ash on the ground, the territory was Scourge controlled.


He took the urn from the Alliance and then dumped the remains out. In Arthas: Rise of the Lich King it goes further and says that the ashes then blew away (but not before choking Arthas slightly.) So the Forsaken couldn't have ever had them.

Also, Lordearon was already invaded by undeads. Don't think a living was able to go there and write everything down. It was probably a forsaken.


In the TFT mission "King Arthas" we see that the Alliance still controlled parts of the Capital City all the way through Reign of Chaos, giving them ample opportunity to erect the tomb.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
16335
No Forsaken could have written it because it was written by someone who had Terenas' remains.

The Forsaken never possessed his remains, only the Alliance did.
Except that the Alliance never had access to Lordaeron to construct his tomb. After his death, it was controlled by the Scourge. Immediately thereafter, it was controlled by the Forsaken.

No they don't, as their actions indicate otherwise. They don't miss what Lordaeron stood for or what Lordaeron "used to be." They miss a time without the Scourge.

And considering the fact that the Scourge stood in the way of their world domination for some time, it makes sense.
That second sentence is such an incredibly asanine statement as to border on lunacy. The Forsaken didn't even exist before the Scourge.
Edited by Vegdrasil on 3/19/2013 5:14 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
17275
03/19/2013 05:06 PMPosted by Aeoden
Go read Terenas tomb. I'm pretty sure Sylvanas or someone around her wrote that.


According to Rise of the Lich King, Sylvanas now hates all living things - especially humans.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12170
In the TFT mission "King Arthas" we see that the Alliance still controlled parts of the Capital City all the way through Reign of Chaos, giving them ample opportunity to erect the tomb.


Yeah right you don't see people in the front gate forging a tomb. However, lets keep in mind that WoW is not real scale T.T
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12170
According to Rise of the Lich King, Sylvanas now hates all living things - especially humans.


Yeah but it is kind of a "reminder". Terenas was good back in time. It says on the tomb that HE was the real last kind of Lordaeron...not Arthas.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
6120
Except that the Alliance never had access to Lordaeron to construct his tomb. After his death, it was controlled by the Scourge. Immediately thereafter, it was controlled by the Forsaken.


False. Again, in King Arthas, the TFT mission, the Alliance has a presence in the Lordaeron Palace Gardens.

That second sentence is such an incredibly asanine statement as to border on lunacy. The Forsaken didn't even exist before the Scourge.


They were, however, enemies of the Scourge for most of their existence.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10400
I am not even delving into surrounding errata to clarify my position. This is simple English.

but missed as an icon of a happier time


They missed Terenas as an icon of simpler times.

They missed simpler times, of which Terenas was an icon.

They missed simpler times.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
6120
Yeah right you don't see people in the front gate forging a tomb. However, lets keep in mind that WoW is not real scale T.T


You said that they couldn't have had any opportunity to construct the tomb. But they had a presence in Capital City in TFT.

Furthermore, if they never controlled any part of the city after the end of the human campaign in Reign of Chaos, how did they get Terenas' remains in the first place?

Yeah but it is kind of a "reminder". Terenas was good back in time. It says on the tomb that HE was the real last kind of Lordaeron...not Arthas.


It's a moot point because neither Sylvanas nor the Forsaken wrote the inscription.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8735
03/19/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Vyrin
Go read Terenas tomb. I'm pretty sure Sylvanas or someone around her wrote that.


No Forsaken could have written it because it was written by someone who had Terenas' remains.

The Forsaken never possessed his remains, only the Alliance did.


1. We don't know if the tomb actually contains his remains.

2. The Alliance was never in a position to build the tomb. Arthas rolled and and wiped the city out, then the Scourge and Dreadlords controlled the remains and renovated the Undercity.

The only people that could have built the tomb are the Forsaken.

Why do people keep on citing "they ignore his tomb" as a sign that they like him when in fact it's a sign of the opposite?


They keep the candles lit and apparently replace them regularly.

And don't say "game mechanics". The four candles surrounding his tomb have skulls at the bottom. IE, Forsaken lemotif.

No they don't, as their actions indicate otherwise. They don't miss what Lordaeron stood for or what Lordaeron "used to be." They miss a time without the Scourge.

And considering the fact that the Scourge stood in the way of their world domination for some time, it makes sense.


/facepalm

That's idiotic. And very, very clearly not what was being conveyed in the quote.

Hell, it doesn't even line up with your insane theories on Forsaken metaphysiology.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12170
Furthermore, if they never controlled any part of the city after the end of the human campaign in Reign of Chaos, how did they get Terenas' remains in the first place?


Sylvanas didn't hated Terenas in first place. She hated his son.
Edited by Aeoden on 3/19/2013 5:26 PM PDT
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