The Forsaken miss Terenas

25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
1. We don't know if the tomb actually contains his remains.

2. The Alliance was never in a position to build the tomb. Arthas rolled and and wiped the city out, then the Scourge and Dreadlords controlled the remains and renovated the Undercity.


1. It doesn't contain his remains. Terenas' remains were scattered at Andorhal by Arthas.

2. Yes they were. Not only were they in a position to retrieve the remains in the first place but we see in TFT that the Alliance retained a presence in Capital City all through RoC, thanks to the presence of the Silver Hand.

http://www.wowpedia.org/King_Arthas_(Warcraft_III)

They keep the candles lit and apparently replace them regularly.


Yeah, candles are great for lighting a room that isn't completely lit by the wall torches already there.

That's idiotic. And very, very clearly not what was being conveyed in the quote.


As Arkturas pointed out, simple english disagrees with you.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10640
1. We don't know if the tomb actually contains his remains.


We do know. It doesn't. The Silver Hand was taking his remains away for safe keeping, if I recall correctly,

2. The Alliance was never in a position to build the tomb. Arthas rolled and and wiped the city out, then the Scourge and Dreadlords controlled the remains and renovated the Undercity.


Arthas left Capitol City and was gone for a long time destroying the Elves. They easily had enough time. They also had to be there to get Terena's body to cremate it.
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90 Undead Rogue
6860
03/19/2013 04:47 PMPosted by Arkturas
They miss him as an abstract representation of happier times.


Abstract, tangible, intangible, personal symbols or sign, none it matters. It's the simple fact that the Forsaken miss King Terenas as something representing better times. I mean wow!

The implications are numerous and will come in handy, I've already bookmarked it. For starters we can obliterate the silly argument that the Forsaken are space aliens with implanted memories.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
1. It doesn't contain his remains. Terenas' remains were scattered at Andorhal by Arthas.


Then the holder of his remains, or whether they were ever in the tomb, is a moot point.

2. Yes they were. Not only were they in a position to retrieve the remains in the first place but we see in TFT that the Alliance retained a presence in Capital City all through RoC, thanks to the presence of the Silver Hand.


They clearly had the time and energy to build a tomb to Terenas six feet away from the main entrance to the Undercity while under siege by, well, everybody.

I'm sure.

Yeah, candles are great for lighting a room that isn't completely lit by the wall torches already there.


Exactly. They only serve a ceremonial purpose.

Only the Forsaken could and would put them there, they fit the Forsaken's design, and they've been lit since the game started.

As Arkturas pointed out, simple english disagrees with you.


"Simpler" and "happier" are two different words.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
03/19/2013 05:32 PMPosted by Arkturas
Arthas left Capitol City and was gone for a long time destroying the Elves.


Dreadlords.

03/19/2013 05:37 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
They miss him as an abstract representation of happier times.


Abstract, tangible, intangible, personal symbols or sign, none it matters. It's the simple fact that the Forsaken miss King Terenas as something representing better times. I mean wow!

The implications are numerous and will come in handy, I've already bookmarked it. For starters we can obliterate the silly argument that the Forsaken are space aliens with implanted memories.


Thank you.
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90 Human Mage
16265
2. Yes they were. Not only were they in a position to retrieve the remains in the first place but we see in TFT that the Alliance retained a presence in Capital City all through RoC, thanks to the presence of the Silver Hand.

http://www.wowpedia.org/King_Arthas_(Warcraft_III)


That's not the Capital City that they were holding.

The Capital City was firmly under Balnazzar's control at the time.
Edited by Gibbons on 3/19/2013 5:47 PM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Then the holder of his remains, or whether they were ever in the tomb, is a moot point.


It's not a moot point because the inscription says "Here lies King Terenas Menethil II."

What this means is that whoever set up that memorial intended to have his remains interred there. As the Forsaken were never in possession of his remains nor ever sought out his remains, it couldn't have been them.

They clearly had the time and energy to build a tomb to Terenas six feet away from the main entrance to the Undercity while under siege by, well, everybody.

I'm sure.


They apparently had time to take his remains and cremate them before taking him on the traditional funerary rounds around the kingdom.

You're overestimating how many Scourge remained in Lordaeron. At this point in time Arthas was invading Quel'thalas, and then he immediately invaded Dalaran. During this time the humans were able to reconsolidate some power in the capital. This is depicted in Warcraft 3. I've given you the relevant link (and you've apparently disregarded it.)

Exactly. They only serve a ceremonial purpose.


The room isn't completely lit by the torches already there, is what I'm saying. The candles serve as a lighting source and nothing more.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
That's not the Capital City that they were holding.

The Capital City was firmly under Balnazzar's control at the time.


The opening card outright says that the mission takes place in Lordaeron's palace gardens. That's in the capital.

In fact, you can SEE the palace on the map where the mission takes place.

he implications are numerous and will come in handy, I've already bookmarked it. For starters we can obliterate the silly argument that the Forsaken are space aliens with implanted memories.


Nobody has said that they're space aliens.

They are, however, alien entities to Lordaeron with memories that aren't their own. It's surprising that you, who've always wanted the Forsaken to be humans with skin conditions, are so pleased with a dev quote that outright says that they don't like Terenas.
Edited by Vyrin on 3/19/2013 5:50 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
16265
Where does it outright say that they don't like Terenas?

It says that they don't revere him, but they miss him as a memory of better times, and that's all it says.

Missing somebody as a memory of better times does not mean disliking them.

Not revered doesn't mean not liked either. You can like someone or something without revering them, and you can not revere them and still like them.

At the very least, it proves that the Forsaken have fond memories of King Terenas. And people generally don't have fond memories of those whom they disliked.
Edited by Gibbons on 3/19/2013 5:58 PM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Where does it outright say that they don't like Terenas?

It says that they don't revere him, but they miss him as a memory of better times, and that's all it says.


Because you can miss something that an individual represented without even liking that individual.

They miss what Terenas represented, which was Alliance-controlled Lordaeron, not Terenas himself. The tweet outright says this.

How this can be consolidated with their continued efforts to eradicate the Alliance? I don't know, Kosak hasn't tweeted back about that.
Edited by Vyrin on 3/19/2013 6:01 PM PDT
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90 Human Monk
13395
they sure do miss those better times, they miss it so much infact that they go out of there way to kill and destroy everything that even resembles lordearon or its people.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
hey sure do miss those better times, they miss it so much infact that they go out of there way to kill and destroy everything that even resembles lordearon or its people.


I know, right? I don't understand why Fargo keeps on making statements about the Forsaken that contradict everything we know about them.
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90 Human Mage
16265
Maybe there are some things we don't know about them.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
It's not a moot point because the inscription says "Here lies King Terenas Menethil II."


Means nothing. The inscription is most likely not literal.

03/19/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Vyrin
They apparently had time to take his remains and cremate them


I wouldn't doubt this.

before taking him on the traditional funerary rounds around the kingdom.


I would doubt this. In a number of ways.

03/19/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Vyrin
You're overestimating how many Scourge remained in Lordaeron. At this point in time Arthas was invading Quel'thalas, and then he immediately invaded Dalaran. During this time the humans were able to reconsolidate some power in the capital. This is depicted in Warcraft 3. I've given you the relevant link (and you've apparently disregarded it.)


You're greatly underestimating the number of Scourge in Lordaeron. Even assuming a majority of Scourge travelled with Arthas on his entire invasion path, Lordaeron lays directly between Dalaran and Quel'thalas.

If Arthas didn't keep troops fighting in Lordaeron, he would have had to scourge it multiple times. That makes no sense, especially once you take the Dreadlords controlling many of the Scourge in the area, and waging an active war, into account.

The room isn't completely lit by the torches already there, is what I'm saying. The candles serve as a lighting source and nothing more.


There are at least four other torches in the room. It's overlit twice over. And if the purpose was simply practical, there's no reason for the candles to be so huge, or be arranged right around the tomb.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Means nothing. The inscription is most likely not literal.


Er, what? How exactly is "here lies X" not supposed to be taken literally?

I would doubt this. In a number of ways.


That's what they were doing when Arthas found them.

Did you actually play Warcraft 3?

You're greatly underestimating the number of Scourge in Lordaeron. Even assuming a majority of Scourge travelled with Arthas on his entire invasion path, Lordaeron lays directly between Dalaran and Quel'thalas.

If Arthas didn't keep troops fighting in Lordaeron, he would have had to scourge it multiple times. That makes no sense, especially once you take the Dreadlords controlling many of the Scourge in the area, and waging an active war, into account.


And you're greatly overestimating the ability of Paladins to fight undead. Again, did you play Warcraft 3? Fighting a Paladin as Scourge was no easy task.

And yeah, Lordaeron does, but Lordaeron is a big place and the capital does not lie between Dalaran and Quel'thalas.

And he DID have to Scourge it multiple times. First he did it and then killed Terenas, then he moved his army away to Quel'thalas and Dalaran before coming back and doing it a second time. Then he left for Northrend and the humans came back AGAIN in the form of Garithos and company before finally being KO'd by the Forsaken.

There are at least four other torches in the room. It's overlit twice over. And if the purpose was simply practical, there's no reason for the candles to be so huge, or be arranged right around the tomb.


All on one side of the room. Have you ever seen a medieval crypt? They're REALLY dark and torches don't keep the entire place lit, especially if they're on one side of the room.
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90 Human Monk
13395
having some room lit with candles means nothing you would think that if they did care about terenas at all they wouldnt go against everything he and lordearon believed in.
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90 Human Paladin
17285
before taking him on the traditional funerary rounds around the kingdom.

I would doubt this. In a number of ways.


"Moving slowly along the road, on foot, was a small funeral procession. A military funeral, or one for an important dignitary; Arthas recognized the trappings of such things. Several men in armor marched single file; one man in the center carried something in powerful arms. The faint sun glinted on his armor and upon the item he bore—the urn of which Tichondrius had spoken. And suddenly Arthas understood why Tichondrius had been amused."
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86 Troll Warrior
8625
they sure do miss those better times, they miss it so much infact that they go out of there way to kill and destroy everything that even resembles lordearon or its people.


I'm just saying my opinion here, but I feel like they do it because of sylvanas.

I mean, i'm sure they respect terenas but they think they should follow what she does.

Sylvanas is the one who saved them and brought them together. They would be nothing without her. She plagues places because lordaeron has no special meaning to her other than the fact that the person who made her who she is now was gonna rule the place. If anything, she hates lordaeron. She stays in the sewer because that is the one place arthas would never have gone.

If it was and undead that rallied them up instead of sylvanas, things would be very different.There are still tattered flags on the road right outside of the gates of lordaeron.

I'm not saying they love the place to death (No pun intended) but they wouldn't go around destroying lordaeron. Sylvanas is telling them to do that and they are following her orders.
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90 Human Mage
16265
There are at least four other torches in the room. It's overlit twice over. And if the purpose was simply practical, there's no reason for the candles to be so huge, or be arranged right around the tomb.


And more torches or lanterns would have done the job better anyway.

The Forsaken didn't exactly have a shortage of firewood, or a surplus of wax.
Edited by Gibbons on 3/19/2013 6:33 PM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
There are still tattered flags on the road right outside of the gates of lordaeron.


There are still tattered flags in Stratholme. Do the Scourge miss "happier times" too?
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