The Forsaken miss Terenas

90 Tauren Warrior
16005
Even right from the Developer's Mouth Vyrin continues his crusade.

Shine on you crazy diamond.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9845
Er, what? How exactly is "here lies X" not supposed to be taken literally?


Because remains often can't be located.

Did you actually play Warcraft 3?


Yes.

And while I know the Alliance has a tendency to be extraordinarily stupid, I find it difficult to believe that Tenenas' remains were shluped around Lordaeron in the middle of a zombie plague for the sole purpose of some funeral rights that may or may not exist in the Warcraft universe.

Now, I'm not saying that they couldn't get his remains and move them, mind you, I just don't think they'd move them around a half-depopulated, plagued land that was still crawling with some Undead, simply to show them off.

In fact -

"Moving slowly along the road, on foot, was a small funeral procession. A military funeral, or one for an important dignitary; Arthas recognized the trappings of such things. Several men in armor marched single file; one man in the center carried something in powerful arms. The faint sun glinted on his armor and upon the item he bore—the urn of which Tichondrius had spoken. And suddenly Arthas understood why Tichondrius had been amused."


Where were they going?

According to you, they built the tomb. There's no damn reason for Terenas' remains to be moved anywhere else, unless they were attempting to move him to a burial site that wasn't in the heart of Scourge territory.

And you're greatly overestimating the ability of Paladins to fight undead. Again, did you play Warcraft 3? Fighting a Paladin as Scourge was no easy task.


By "overestimate", do you mean "underestimate"? Because as written those sentences conflict with each other.

All on one side of the room. Have you ever seen a medieval crypt? They're REALLY dark and torches don't keep the entire place lit, especially if they're on one side of the room.


No. There's six other torches in the room, and they cover at least eighty percent of the space. And even if that wasn't enough light, giant freaking candles (two of which are on the most well-lit side of the room anyway) aren't exactly the way to go.
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86 Troll Warrior
8625
There are still tattered flags in Stratholme. Do the Scourge miss "happier times" too?


It isn't in their way. Like I said, they don't love it, but they won't destroy it. Stratholme was on fire when Arthas was purging it, so that doesn't count.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Because remains often can't be located.


Then the inscription usually says something like "in memorial" or what not. A gravestone that says "here lies" when the remains aren't actually there is considered really distasteful.

Yes.

And while I know the Alliance has a tendency to be extraordinarily stupid, I find it difficult to believe that Tenenas' remains were shluped around Lordaeron in the middle of a zombie plague for the sole purpose of some funeral rights that may or may not exist in the Warcraft universe.

Now, I'm not saying that they couldn't get his remains and move them, mind you, I just don't think they'd move them around a half-depopulated, plagued land that was still crawling with some Undead, simply to show them off.

In fact -


Egrem kindly posted that section in RotLK that says that they took him on a funerary procession.

As for why, the prevailing thought would probably be "these are our traditions, and we're not going to let that impudent little snot Arthas stop them. Damn the plague, we're upholding them."

Where were they going?

According to you, they built the tomb. There's no damn reason for Terenas' remains to be moved anywhere else, unless they were attempting to move him to a burial site that wasn't in the heart of Scourge territory.


Again, tradition. Plus in monarchies it's customary for the monarch's remains to be publicly displayed in some form during their funerary rites.

By "overestimate", do you mean "underestimate"? Because as written those sentences conflict with each other.


Underestimate, yes.

No. There's six other torches in the room, and they cover at least eighty percent of the space. And even if that wasn't enough light, giant freaking candles (two of which are on the most well-lit side of the room anyway) aren't exactly the way to go.


Considering WoW doesn't have realistic lighting mechanics, they don't cover the entire room. They couldn't cover the entire room because they're only on one side and torches give off very little light.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9845
Then the inscription usually says something like "in memorial" or what not. A gravestone that says "here lies" when the remains aren't actually there is considered really distasteful.


I've never known you to advocate for the tastes of the Forsaken.

Egrem kindly posted that section in RotLK that says that they took him on a funerary procession.


Yeah, I noticed.

Specifically, right after the "in fact".

As for why, the prevailing thought would probably be "these are our traditions, and we're not going to let that impudent little snot Arthas stop them. Damn the plague, we're upholding them."


Again, tradition. Plus in monarchies it's customary for the monarch's remains to be publicly displayed in some form during their funerary rites.


I might, might, buy this, if there was actually any evidence that Lordaeron brought it's rulers remains on a cross-country road trip as a tradition.

Considering WoW doesn't have realistic lighting mechanics, they don't cover the entire room. They couldn't cover the entire room because they're only on one side and torches give off very little light.


What? Who's to say how much light those torches give off? Who's to say how much light the Forsaken actually need?

And again, if light even WAS a problem with so many torches, the answer to it wouldn't be those ornate candles. Especially since, again, two of them lay on the same side of the room as the majority of torches.
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100 Human Mage
17345
Considering WoW doesn't have realistic lighting mechanics, they don't cover the entire room. They couldn't cover the entire room because they're only on one side and torches give off very little light.


Torches give off more light than candles, though. If lighting were a problem, they'd solve it with more torches or with lanterns, not with candles.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
18880
I was talking about the fact that they miss King Terenas as an icon. That's shocking and cool.


That makes me sad for the Forsaken. The don't revere him per se, but the better times when they were human before the scourge.

"Lament of the Forsaken"

Here lies King Terenas Menethil II -- Last True King of Lordaeron.

Great were his deeds -- long was his reign -- unthinkable was his death.

"May the Father lie blameless for the deeds of the son.
May the bloodied crown stay lost and forgotten."
Edited by Threeslotbag on 3/19/2013 10:09 PM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I've never known you to advocate for the tastes of the Forsaken.


So you're saying that they deliberately left a disrespectful epitaph in your opinion?

I might, might, buy this, if there was actually any evidence that Lordaeron brought it's rulers remains on a cross-country road trip as a tradition.


The book says it was a funeral procession, so it was part of the funeral rites.

What? Who's to say how much light those torches give off? Who's to say how much light the Forsaken actually need?

And again, if light even WAS a problem with so many torches, the answer to it wouldn't be those ornate candles. Especially since, again, two of them lay on the same side of the room as the majority of torches.


Considering how huge those candles are and the fact that they're in a centralized location, they'd give off far more light than wall-torches would.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
but the better times when they were human before the scourge.


And to show how much they miss it they willingly go on a genocidal rampage across the countryside killing humans and destroying Lordaeron.

This is starting to look like "Forsaken don't rot" 2.0.

"Lament of the Forsaken"


The Forsaken didn't write that. It's been repeatedly demonstrated that they couldn't have.
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
And to show how much they miss it they willingly go on a genocidal rampage across the countryside killing humans and destroying Lordaeron.

This is starting to look like "Forsaken don't rot" 2.0.


The important thing is that Terenas reminds the Forsaken of a time when they were living breathing things with all the feeling and sensation that went along with it.

And it's something that they will NEVER have again. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a driving force behind their bitterness.
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100 Draenei Paladin
9725
The Silverhand most likely wrote that on the tomb.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
The Silverhand most likely wrote that on the tomb.

How?

It was a Scourge bastion after Arthas took it, and when he left, Sylvanas and the Forsaken took over. The Silver Hand couldn't have been there.
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90 Orc Death Knight
3195
And to show how much they miss it they willingly go on a genocidal rampage across the countryside killing humans and destroying Lordaeron.

This is starting to look like "Forsaken don't rot" 2.0.


The important thing is that Terenas reminds the Forsaken of a time when they were living breathing things with all the feeling and sensation that went along with it.

And it's something that they will NEVER have again. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a driving force behind their bitterness.


Does this not prove, if they miss a period in their old lives, that they lived those old lives? And are not space aliens ghost demons? Food for thought.
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100 Draenei Paladin
9725
03/19/2013 11:26 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
The Silverhand most likely wrote that on the tomb.

How?

It was a Scourge bastion after Arthas took it, and when he left, Sylvanas and the Forsaken took over. The Silver Hand couldn't have been there.


Where else would they have cremated him?
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
Where else would they have cremated him?

The plaque is on a tomb, presumably with Terenas' body inside.

Wait, they said they cremated him in WC3, huh? Well, they made a reference to his ashes. Hm. I still don't think the Silver Hand wrote it because Lordaeron wasn't under Silver Hand control after Arthas cleared it, but it is a conundrum.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/19/2013 11:34 PM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
And it's something that they will NEVER have again. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a driving force behind their bitterness.


Except when undeath DOES come up they consider it a good thing, and they've never made any attempt to find a cure or even live like humans.

Does this not prove, if they miss a period in their old lives, that they lived those old lives? And are not space aliens ghost demons? Food for thought.


Not really, since having someone's brain gives you access to their memories.
Edited by Vyrin on 3/19/2013 11:37 PM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
It was a Scourge bastion after Arthas took it, and when he left, Sylvanas and the Forsaken took over. The Silver Hand couldn't have been there.


Wait, they said they cremated him in WC3, huh? Well, they made a reference to his ashes. Hm. I still don't think the Silver Hand wrote it because Lordaeron wasn't under Silver Hand control after Arthas cleared it, but it is a conundrum.


How many times do I have to link this damn mission before you guys will get that the Alliance controlled parts of the city all the way up until TFT?

http://www.wowpedia.org/King_Arthas_(Warcraft_III)
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100 Human Mage
17345
Except when undeath DOES come up they consider it a good thing, and they've never made any attempt to find a cure or even live like humans.


I'll grant you the "living like humans" part, but we've known since the Crusader Bridenbrad quests that there is no cure for undeath.

Unless there is something more powerful than Ysera, Alextrasza, and A'dal combined, of course.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I'll grant you the "living like humans" part, but we've known since the Crusader Bridenbrad quests that there is no cure for undeath.


The Forsaken didn't know that and I'm not sure they even do now.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
18880
03/19/2013 11:33 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
Where else would they have cremated him?

The plaque is on a tomb, presumably with Terenas' body inside.

Wait, they said they cremated him in WC3, huh? Well, they made a reference to his ashes. Hm. I still don't think the Silver Hand wrote it because Lordaeron wasn't under Silver Hand control after Arthas cleared it, but it is a conundrum.


Yeah, I guess we will never know who wrote it, but it sounds like something the Vanilla Forsaken would write.
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