Resto shaman healing in 5.2 needs improvments

90 Draenei Shaman
6485
I have been healing with my resto shaman for a while now and with the new patch 5.2 that has come out i am utterly outraged with the healing numbers as far as output goes. i know that we are mainly raid healers but i remember in bwd when i was a main tank healer for quite a few fights. i am around 500 ilvl and im going oom and not able to keep up with the healing numbers in TOT. im adv around 35 and 40k hps in encounters where pallys and priests are at 60k adv. we have some of the best raid cd's but healing stream totem place and forget has gone away. and our single target heals are just plain weak or to mana coustly. i try not to even chain heal now because its not worth the mana. in 10 mans i cannot use healing rain for most of the fights because everyone is spread out. i can go on complaining but something needs to be done. make HST a place and forget or give us less cast time on some of our longer heals or something. i am getting by passesd and kicked out of tot raids because my healing # are to low. (an i know that its not a #'s game with healers its if everyone can stay alive but when people die because they stand in aoe for to long they blame it on the healers). i love healing and i love being a shammy please give us something to compete with priests and pallys throughput in 5.2 so i can go back to having fun healing and not having people pissed at me bacasue im not pulling good enough numbers. does anyone else feel this way?
(note i play my class very well. its not an experiance thing why i cant keep up. its a shaman nurf that is killing me)

sincerely concerned shaman
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95 Dwarf Shaman
10585
I do 10m normal mode with a holy paladin as the second primary healer. He's one of those more hard-core type who tends to have the best gear very quickly on, whereas I tend to only play for raids so I take a bit longer to gear. As a result, he typically beats me on the healing meters and that's fine, I'm not terribly concerned... we're downing content and he's not complaining.

That said, I've noticed that recently (especially post 5.2), even though our gear gap is much smaller now he is out-performing me by a wider margin. Sometimes he even does 33% more healing than I do. So I came to the forums to check things out and it looks like others are noticing this... so hopefully things get balanced out, one can hope :)

Anyway, the thing I wanted to comment on was you saying you were having mana issues. I'm at about 11k spirit and I checked your armory, you're a bit higher than me (11.2k). I don't find I have mana issues at all... and if I do, I'm running neck and neck with my pally partner. Generally I find this level of spirit to give good returns, using MTT on rotation and making sure I refund my mana cost for HST from the glyph. Past that, I find pestering my raid to get in the healing rain to go a long ways, as does pestering them to stay out of the bad. Blizzard decided they wanted healer mana to be a limited resource this expansion and fights look to have been carefully crafted around having healers end with near zero mana.

Throughout the whole expansion so far, I find this happening to me a lot. A lot of our first kills have me running on dredges and the same is true for our paladin.

I think that's just good design (for the goals they set out for in MoP... whether or not you agree is an entirely different story), and other classes should be in the same boat as you. Though I will say it's weird that we're up at 11k spirit to feel like we can make it through the fight and other classes are much, much lower. That I don't really have an answer for :D
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90 Gnome Priest
7890
There's a capped thread on this, someone ported the thread over to dungeons and raids, people have tweeted GC and the blizz devs and still no response, I wouldn't count on anything til atleast 5.3 maybe even as late as the next expac
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90 Draenei Shaman
6485
i have swithched and re gemed and reforged into the 2nd cap for haste (3787 i think) and put everything else in crit. i did a HOF yesterday and might i say it was much much improved. i was able to keep RT on most everyone and every time it crited i would get about 5k mana back. and on 10 ppl thats alot. i was usually always the top healer and always at max mana for the first half of the fight. (i used glyph of RT) and i took spirit off for crit in our case right now CRIT>SPIRIT to a point. i droped from about 14k to 10k and stacked crit and man what a differance that made. ( i can give credit to STOCK from opponent) he talked to me on vent for a littlebit and told me some helpful tips. (he is one of the top healers on stormrage on WOL) but my advice haste to 2nd breakpoint and crit crit crit.
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90 Gnome Priest
7890
LFR doesn't have the same mechanics, or they can be completely ignored for the most part, no offense but using LFR to judge performance is not good. The 2nd haste breakpoint for totems is bugged also, you wont always get the extra tick.
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Nobody mentioned LFR in this thread.
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
Instead of blaming it on the class why not try to improve your own play? Rshams are great this tier in tot for 10 mans.
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I have been healing with my resto shaman for a while now and with the new patch 5.2 that has come out i am utterly outraged with the healing numbers as far as output goes. i know that we are mainly raid healers but i remember in bwd when i was a main tank healer for quite a few fights.

I am around 500 ilvl and I'm going oom and not able to keep up with the healing numbers in TOT. I'm adv around 35 and 40k hps in encounters where Paladins and priests are at 60k adv. We have some of the best raid cd's but healing stream totem place and forget has gone away. Our single target heals are just plain weak or to mana costly. I try not to even chain heal now because its not worth the mana. In 10 mans i cannot use healing rain for most of the fights because everyone is spread out.

I can go on complaining but something needs to be done. Make HST a place and forget or give us less cast time on some of our longer heals or something. I am getting by passed and kicked out of tot raids because my healing # are to low (an i know that its not a #'s game with healers its if everyone can stay alive but when people die because they stand in aoe for to long they blame it on the healers). I love healing and I love being a shammy please give us something to compete with priests and Paladins throughput in 5.2 so i can go back to having fun healing and not having people pissed at me because I'm not pulling good enough numbers.

Does anyone else feel this way?
(note i play my class very well. its not an experience thing why i cant keep up. its a shaman nurf that is killing me)

Sincerely
concerned shaman


I cleaned that up for you so it's readable now.

Edit: Awe, baited into a necro thread :(
Edited by Horac on 5/10/2013 7:38 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
9720
And Glyph of Riptide is just bad. Noxxic or Icyveins will tell you it's mandatory, but the HoT element is weak, even if you can keep it up on multiple people, so the +90% initial heal is almost always going to be more valuable, not to mention the fact that you will only be able to get off one cast without a Tidal Waves buff before Riptide is off CD again, which is basically replaced with a GCD from casting your Glyphed Riptide just to maintain a very slightly higher uptime on Tidal Waves.


completely disagree.

Glyphed RT is great for high movement fights, where resto shamans struggle. Also, without the glyph, the initial heal of riptide is what? 15k max? 15k in a healthpool of 300k+ is meaningless.

Glyphed RT means you never lose Tidal Waves, ever.

I'd argue it's totally mandatory - so much so that the glyph should probably be changed (a la the flame shock glyph)
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
05/10/2013 08:02 AMPosted by Hebrewtidez
And Glyph of Riptide is just bad. Noxxic or Icyveins will tell you it's mandatory, but the HoT element is weak, even if you can keep it up on multiple people, so the +90% initial heal is almost always going to be more valuable, not to mention the fact that you will only be able to get off one cast without a Tidal Waves buff before Riptide is off CD again, which is basically replaced with a GCD from casting your Glyphed Riptide just to maintain a very slightly higher uptime on Tidal Waves.


completely disagree.

Glyphed RT is great for high movement fights, where resto shamans struggle. Also, without the glyph, the initial heal of riptide is what? 15k max? 15k in a healthpool of 300k+ is meaningless.

Glyphed RT means you never lose Tidal Waves, ever.

I'd argue it's totally mandatory - so much so that the glyph should probably be changed (a la the flame shock glyph)


lol
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
Instead of blaming it on the class why not try to improve your own play? Rshams are great this tier in tot for 10 mans.


World of Logs strongly disagrees. What game have you been playing?
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100 Draenei Shaman
5895
05/10/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Kuwilei
you waste extra GCD's casting Riptide more.


Riptide is more efficient than almost any hardcast heal, and can be cast while moving because it is an instant cast. How is that a waste?

Or are you only concerned with meter padding on fights/phases where nobody is in any danger and the raid isn't taking much damage in the first place? If so, yeah, you probably don't want to be playing shaman.

Total healing done over an encounter -- let alone an entire instance including trash! -- is a meaningless statistic.

As for the glyph of riptide, I think how useful it is depends on how often you can afford to turret and hardcast. In some fights it's very nice to have an instant cast spell with no CD, even if it is a HoT that can't be spammed on the same player. If you frequently have to move and heal more often than you can SWG, then you should consider the glyph.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
05/10/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Luvbacon
Instead of blaming it on the class why not try to improve your own play? Rshams are great this tier in tot for 10 mans.


World of Logs strongly disagrees. What game have you been playing?


Not saying which way I stand on the matter, but there's always the issue of representation in WoL's, and it's not a "end all". There are some talented players that have stuck with resto shamans throughout the tier happily.
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Riptide is more efficient than almost any hardcast heal, and can be cast while moving because it is an instant cast. How is that a waste?

Or are you only concerned with meter padding on fights/phases where nobody is in any danger and the raid isn't taking much damage in the first place? If so, yeah, you probably don't want to be playing shaman.

The initial heal of riptide is usually more valuable than the HoT component because it is much less likely to overheal as it is instantaneous. Glyphing RT partially kills the efficiency of the spell and the spammability hardly makes up for it considering that RT is not as cheap as it was in Cata and that you''d be trading the output of other spells in exchange of those extra RTs. The glyph is very very situational and does little more than making us a gimped Druid, personally. I've tried it in some encounters like Tortos, but I feel like proper timing of HST and use of HTT/Ascendance and SWG make up for much more solid healing than glyphing RT in hopes of better output.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Glyphed Riptide is only going to be strong in situations where you can effectively get ~30% or lower overhealing on the HoT component. In the majority of raid situations, the HoT will be at 60%+ overheal. This tier, the only place that I use it is Heroic Tortos, because the crystal shell mechanic greatly reduces the overheal of HoTs. The other problem is, you generally should be using HR, ULE, and HST on CD, and you can already keep 3 Riptides rolling without it glyphed. If you continue to use the higher priority abilities on CD (which you almost always should), you aren't likely to get much more than 3 RT out at a time. Unless you plan on having 5+ active Riptides, the glyph isn't worth the efficiency loss of the direct heal. In terms of mana efficiency, glyphed Riptide is only about half as efficient as Healing Wave, is less efficient than Chain Heal, even if it only hits 3 targets, and is only slightly more efficient than GHW or HS, and all of those abilities are likely to overheal less than the HoT component of RT.

These are the only real situations where I see the glyph being a functional option
1. A fight really requires such constant movement that you can never get Healing Rain/direct heals off. Almost no fight situation is constant non stop movement, and you can almost always get a significant amount of casts off, even if it requires better play, timing movement with instant casts being off CD, and smarter positioning.
2. You are tank healing/single target healing and having issues with running out of Tidal Waves charges. If you really are only chain casting single target heals (as in need to be able to cast 3 in a ~5 second window), I could see it being viable. However, you are almost never tunnel casting that much, and can almost always mix in a Chain Heal for additional TW stacks.
3. You are having issues with Riptide placement and having good targets to bounce Chain Heal off of. The requirement of Riptide being on the initial bounce target to get full effect is one of the most frustrating things about Chain Heal, and using it effectively kind of requires intelligent placement of Riptide every 6 seconds (i.e. making sure you have a melee target to chain off if you know melee will be taking AoE damage). The glyph can reduce the skill cap/amount of attention that needs to be paid to it.
4. Fight mechanics that significantly reduce overhealing or make pre-HoTting highly effective. Crystal Shell on Heroic Tortos and Blade Lord Tay'ak (spamming Riptides prior to the boss pushing so they tick while everyone is immobilized in the tornadoes) are the only two cases this tier where I have found fight mechanics make the glyph desirable.

In a way, I think the glyph is designed more for beginner players in most cases, because it can reduce the burdens of positioning/mobility, and Tidal Waves/Riptide-CH target management. You just pay a price in terms of output and efficiency, and each of the things it addresses can generally be worked around with tighter management.
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
05/10/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Luvbacon
Instead of blaming it on the class why not try to improve your own play? Rshams are great this tier in tot for 10 mans.


World of Logs strongly disagrees. What game have you been playing?


lol
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The issue is Healing Rain.

We are balanced(or our competitive numbers are) around the idea that everyone is in Healing Rain, soon as there's any movement/spread and shamans suck.

Solution.

Glyph of Rain
Your Healing Rain is cast on a raid member and rains 30 yards around them wherever they go.

Some QOL changes
I'd also like to see Chain Heal consume Tidal Waves reducing its cast time by 30%.
I'd also like to see Riptiding a previous Riptide will roll the existing Riptide Healing left into the new one, making it stronger(something unique).
Edited by Eskzeus on 5/11/2013 12:55 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
13020
Posted by Luvbacon
Instead of blaming it on the class why not try to improve your own play? Rshams are great this tier in tot for 10 mans.

World of Logs strongly disagrees. What game have you been playing?

Not saying which way I stand on the matter, but there's always the issue of representation in WoL's, and it's not a "end all". There are some talented players that have stuck with resto shamans throughout the tier happily


Yeah, there's always the chance for some misrepresentation when looking at logged numbers vs. the total spec population, but when Rsham is dead last in every single Raidbots percentile group of all parses in 10m normal, and only climbs to 2nd to last in the 25th, 30th, 40th and 60th percentile groupings for 10mH, it's fairly safe to they're not "great this tier in tot for 10 mans." Utility alone isn't enough to compensate for such low output. Kreyyn may be doing great, but reflecting personal performance onto an entire spec is a bad idea.
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