Kinda impressed with rets atm

90 Draenei Shaman
4125
03/23/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Bogey
When all 3 Paladin specs become god awful and you have nothing to switch to and your raid is not bringing your class, then you can start to complain like Mages did.


Having options doesn't necessarily mean you can always use them. Just because Ret has two other viable specs doesn't mean it can just switch specs and gear and tank or heal a raid. You can't do that without displacing somebody else in your raid. Your entire comp would need restructuring. Not to mention that even if you can tank or heal at a competent level and have the gear for it, 99% of the time you won't be as skilled as the actual tank or the healer that have made that role their main, nor as geared, so it's not always in the best interests of a progression-minded raid for you to just steal someone's job.
Edited by Ludicrous on 3/23/2013 12:20 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
4125
I could be wrong, but wasn't fire already ahead of Ret even before the the bomb buffs?


Yep
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90 Human Paladin
11525
Going by raidbot, looks like ret is a slight edge over fire on normal 25, but falls off when you hit heroic. Heroic we're like...2nd last.
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90 Human Mage
17990
Whats so hard to understand with all 3 Mage specs were bad, at the bottom, the worst in the game. Not only that, they had no options to change, zero.

Having options is nice, if I had the option to change to Tank/Heals and be the best Tank/Heals class, then I can complain about the DPS being bad but I cannot complain about the entire class not being viable and bad.

Thats what happened to Mages, all 3 specs were bad, they had nothing to switch to, no option besides rerolling. Guilds were saying, were not taking Mages, etc. That hasnt happened to Paladins and honestly, I hope it doesnt happen to any class. It sucks to sit there and feel like the class you worked so hard on is no longer a viable option in the game you love to play.

When that happens, then start comparing them to Mages. Everyone acts like Mages just cried because they werent top DPS, no they complained because they basically became a class that was no longer needed.
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90 Troll Shaman
15790
03/23/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Ludicrous
I could be wrong, but wasn't fire already ahead of Ret even before the the bomb buffs?


Yep


False
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
guilds arent going to keep a ret if they already have good tanks or healers, they would lose their spot just like the mage if they were weak as well.

if im a dps, am I going to get to be the main tank if my dps spec is trash? of course not, im going to ride the bench.

the option to respec is there, sure, but no decent guild is going to replace their established tanks/healers for no reason. also, a dps spec shouldnt be poor just because a good tank/heal option exists.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 3/23/2013 12:45 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
17990
First off, Rets are not dead last.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/14/60/default/
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/all/14/60/default/

They are actually very close to Mages, actually higher than Fire and this was after our buffs. That just goes to show how bad Mages were with all 3 of their options.

My guild lets our tank swap to DPS, its sucks to Tank all of the time, it would probably be a nice thing for you to do, especially if you were the worst DPS in the game, which Rets are not. Even so, comparing them to what happened to Mages is not comparable.
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90 Human Paladin
11525
If you go up to heroic level, ret falls down to near the very bottom.
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90 Human Mage
17990
If you go up to heroic level, ret falls down to near the very bottom.


Yea, lets use the difficulty that what, let me see, nobody in the entire world has ever finished... Makes sense.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Whats so hard to understand with all 3 Mage specs were bad, at the bottom, the worst in the game. Not only that, they had no options to change, zero.

Having options is nice, if I had the option to change to Tank/Heals and be the best Tank/Heals class, then I can complain about the DPS being bad but I cannot complain about the entire class not being viable and bad.

Thats what happened to Mages, all 3 specs were bad, they had nothing to switch to, no option besides rerolling. Guilds were saying, were not taking Mages, etc. That hasnt happened to Paladins and honestly, I hope it doesnt happen to any class. It sucks to sit there and feel like the class you worked so hard on is no longer a viable option in the game you love to play.

When that happens, then start comparing them to Mages. Everyone acts like Mages just cried because they werent top DPS, no they complained because they basically became a class that was no longer needed.


You dont understand since your mage but ill simplify it for you. Its not the fact that you were bad, its the fact that when another spec thats not a mage is bad, they are told to wait for more data while you guys waited 2-3 days before blizzard said you were bad. It is not uncommon for specs like arms for example to go an entire patch being bottom of the charts and you guys were not as bad as they were.

03/23/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Bogey
If you go up to heroic level, ret falls down to near the very bottom.


Yea, lets use the difficulty that what, let me see, nobody in the entire world has ever finished... Makes sense.


wait weren't mages using that data from fights that a very small amount of the games pop cleared in the first 2 days?
Edited by Fayte on 3/23/2013 2:54 PM PDT
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wait weren't mages using that data from fights that a very small amount of the games pop cleared in the first 2 days?


No. We were told all that garbage about wait wait wait for two whole weeks, then given a poor fix.

Also, the next time your class has its rotation literally destroyed the last three weeks before a patch then you can complain.

What if right before Patch they had taken ret and:

1. Quadroupled the cost of Crusader Strike such that you could not cast it five times in a row without refreshing mana.
2. Lowered its damage by 22%
3. Changed it to provide one charge of Holy power, but made it so you could only stack at most two holy power at a time, while drastically changing how that affected every holy power using ability.
4. Removed Long Arm of the Law entirely.
5. Moved Burdon of Guilt to where Long Arm used to be.
6. Replaced Burdon of Guilt with a talent that said "Reduces damage taken by up to 30% of total damage, depending on how much Attack Power you have"
7. Removed Glyph of Mass Exorcism.
8. Reduced the power of Light's Hammer by 25%
9. Made Execution Sentence consume all Holy Power and need to have Holy Power to be effective.
10. Effective removed Divine Storm, by making it unable to be cast if you use your Execution Sentence.

How would you feel about those changes?

You realize those changes happened to mages, 3 weeks before the patch dropped, right?

You also realize the DoT buff we got would be the equivalent of one that looked like this:

Increased damage of DoT effect of Seal of Truth by 40%, but reduced it in PvP to 50% as effective as in PvE.
Edited by Alordis on 3/23/2013 3:24 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
14435
Having options is nice, if I had the option to change to Tank/Heals and be the best Tank/Heals class, then I can complain about the DPS being bad but I cannot complain about the entire class not being viable and bad.


The fact that anyone who has even a normal mode boss kill has this mentality absolutely BOGGLES me. Let me ask you something. Do you have a hybrid DPS in your raid group? What would he do if his spec was absolute garbage? Would he REALLY switch to heals or tank? No, he wouldn't. He'd deal. It's almost laughable that these changes we're put in with three days of data while most specs are left bad for entire patches, hell, entire expansions!
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0

No. We were told all that garbage about wait wait wait for two whole weeks, then given a poor fix.

patch dropped march 5th, GC said mages were a little low 3 days later after mages blew up the forums. mage buff march 12th hotfix. (note: ppl knew about bomb buff before hotfix)

Mages basically waited 1-2 days before complaining


Also, the next time your class has its rotation literally destroyed the last three weeks before a patch then you can complain.


only started playing dk seriously recently. dont assume things.


What if right before Patch they had taken ret and:

1. Quadroupled the cost of Crusader Strike such that you could not cast it five times in a row without refreshing mana.
2. Lowered its damage by 22%
3. Changed it to provide one charge of Holy power, but made it so you could only stack at most two holy power at a time, while drastically changing how that affected every holy power using ability.
4. Removed Long Arm of the Law entirely.
5. Moved Burdon of Guilt to where Long Arm used to be.
6. Replaced Burdon of Guilt with a talent that said "Reduces damage taken by up to 30% of total damage, depending on how much Attack Power you have"
7. Removed Glyph of Mass Exorcism.
8. Reduced the power of Light's Hammer by 25%
9. Made Execution Sentence consume all Holy Power and need to have Holy Power to be effective.
10. Effective removed Divine Storm, by making it unable to be cast if you use your Execution Sentence.

How would you feel about those changes?

You realize those changes happened to mages, 3 weeks before the patch dropped, right?

You also realize the DoT buff we got would be the equivalent of one that looked like this:

Increased damage of DoT effect of Seal of Truth by 40%, but reduced it in PvP to 50% as effective as in PvE.
If all those changes were to occur it wouldn't make a difference how i felt, blizzard would of told rets the same thing they told every other class but mage, wait and see. And no mages did not go that much into an overhaul i read ptr patch notes nice try tho.
Edited by Fayte on 3/23/2013 3:53 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10885


wait weren't mages using that data from fights that a very small amount of the games pop cleared in the first 2 days?


No. We were told all that garbage about wait wait wait for two whole weeks, then given a poor fix.

Also, the next time your class has its rotation literally destroyed the last three weeks before a patch then you can complain.

What if right before Patch they had taken ret and:

1. Quadroupled the cost of Crusader Strike such that you could not cast it five times in a row without refreshing mana.
2. Lowered its damage by 22%
3. Changed it to provide one charge of Holy power, but made it so you could only stack at most two holy power at a time, while drastically changing how that affected every holy power using ability.
4. Removed Long Arm of the Law entirely.
5. Moved Burdon of Guilt to where Long Arm used to be.
6. Replaced Burdon of Guilt with a talent that said "Reduces damage taken by up to 30% of total damage, depending on how much Attack Power you have"
7. Removed Glyph of Mass Exorcism.
8. Reduced the power of Light's Hammer by 25%
9. Made Execution Sentence consume all Holy Power and need to have Holy Power to be effective.
10. Effective removed Divine Storm, by making it unable to be cast if you use your Execution Sentence.

How would you feel about those changes?

You realize those changes happened to mages, 3 weeks before the patch dropped, right?

You also realize the DoT buff we got would be the equivalent of one that looked like this:

Increased damage of DoT effect of Seal of Truth by 40%, but reduced it in PvP to 50% as effective as in PvE.
Over exaggerating much? It's not that bad, and if a mage is getting benched because they can't down a boss, the problem is not the mage alone (unless the mage is a terrible player), but either following mechanics, or your guild's dps/heals as a whole.


Lol. Too funny. Paladins can be the best Tank, best Healer or a mediocre DPS. Its nobodys fault that you chose the later. Pures cant make that change. Whats harder to change? Spec or Class?

Hell, the boomkin in my raid has gear for all four roles. If your guild isnt giving you gear for your offspec, then thats a problem with your guild not the game. And if youre playing Ret/Ret then thats a problem with you.
No one elses fault either you rolled a mage, guess you gotta reroll if you wanna stay numero uno.
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Over exaggerating much? It's not that bad, and if a mage is getting benched because they can't down a boss, the problem is not the mage alone (unless the mage is a terrible player), but either following mechanics, or your guild's dps/heals as a whole.


Go back and look at the patch notes. Look at what happened to Arcane. That's exactly what I described with no exxageration.
Edited by Alordis on 3/23/2013 4:00 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10885
03/23/2013 03:59 PMPosted by Alordis
Over exaggerating much? It's not that bad, and if a mage is getting benched because they can't down a boss, the problem is not the mage alone (unless the mage is a terrible player), but either following mechanics, or your guild's dps/heals as a whole.


Go back and look at the patch notes. Look at what happened to Arcane. That's exactly what I described with no exxageration.
Nope, all you did was list off a bunch of abilities that effected ret and slap some random numbers around to try to over exaggerate your situation. I'll say it again though because you missed it in my first post. It's not that bad
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90 Troll Shaman
15790
It's not that bad


Im not saying it is and im not saying it isn't, but please show how its not that bad, since thats your claim to prove.
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