Kinda impressed with rets atm

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Unfortunately the developers have chosen certain classes to be the lowest DPS and over the years this has been tattooed into peoples' brains. It's perfectly okay to be outdpsed by a warlock, or DK, or rogue, or mage, but never a ret. That's game design coupled with seven years of everyone laughing at paladins trying to dps.

If warlocks top meters for an entire expansion on every fight, everyone in the community is fine with it. On the other hand if a rets beat a single person on a single phase of a single fight, that person will smash their monitor, breaks their house down, and post on these forums until their class is buffed or rets nerfed.

It's funny if you ask me. Sad, but still funny.


its like in cata when ret was benefiting from gurthalak better than other melees, it didnt put them at top dps it just gave them good dps. the reason for the nerf was because they didnt want one class benefiting more than the other but they didn't buff them. they kept them mid-low and said ret is right where we want the to be and the sad reality is ret is right where they want them to be now.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
got 2pc, still doing meh

buff sword of light for better sustained, and bake SoR cleave into divine storm so we dont have to seal swap so much.

you know, around ICC, even paragon used rets on their world first H LK kill. times have changed :|
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90 Human Paladin
17625
Ugh, I didn't feel it was this bad, but I do believe we need some sustain buff because all my DPS does after CDs is drop down pretty low and it's sad.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
You mean like frost and arcane in 10H? http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/14/60/default/#1111111101111111111010100000000000


Ele says hi.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Ugh, I didn't feel it was this bad, but I do believe we need some sustain buff because all my DPS does after CDs is drop down pretty low and it's sad.

ret single target is "OK" and you really wont notice it too bad till you start getting geared but ret's aoe is horrible in a tier where AoE is key.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
GC cant figure out how to give a class burst and sustained.

might I suggest examining fury warriors for a bit?
Edited by Sanctifìed on 4/7/2013 10:08 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
GC cant figure out how to give a class burst and sustained.

might I suggest examining fury warriors for a bit?


or frost DK lol
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90 Tauren Paladin
12800
a 15% buff after rets being where they wanted them to be for months.

not 1 or 2% tweaks, but 15%...
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
a 15% buff after rets being where they wanted them to be for months.

not 1 or 2% tweaks, but 15%...


As someone not even at your caliber of play, I've lost all faith in Blizzard from a balancing standpoint. They regularly make comments then turn around and do something that directly contradicts themselves the next patch cycle and sometimes even the next week.

Even our PTR test data, aside from encounter testing, is largely worthless since they rely on internal simulation data for classes due to "low sample size" on the PTR, even with players of your standing testing there. Then they release classes in a poor or overpowered state and don't adjust them in a timely manner.

Windwalkers for example were hit pretty hard to "put them where they should be" then they turn around and revert the bulk of the nerf in the following patch.

Or Mages being launched in a pathetic state despite people commenting on the matter in PTR testing.

And Retribution now being boosted a massive amount, despite just a month ago Blizzard saying Rets were "where they want them."

Or Rogues being boosted AGAIN right before the patch went live since they were "a little low"," despite players in high end guilds commenting and asking "wtf?" because the buffs weren't needed and they're now basically destroying everyone else.

The playerbase and our data isn't always the best, but it seems like Blizzard's internal simulation data has yet to provide good balancing information. Our data might be flawed, but it seems like most every prediction by our theorycrafting community has made has proven to be correct but the concerns and comments about the matter are disregarded by Blizzard in favor of their internal sims.
Edited by Bullettime on 4/19/2013 2:57 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
a 15% buff after rets being where they wanted them to be for months.

not 1 or 2% tweaks, but 15%...


As someone not even at your caliber of play, I've lost all faith in Blizzard from a balancing standpoint. They regularly make comments then turn around and do something that directly contradicts themselves the next patch cycle and sometimes even the next week.

Even our PTR test data, aside from encounter testing, is largely worthless since they rely on internal simulation data for classes due to "low sample size" on the PTR, even with players of your standing testing there. Then they release classes in a poor or overpowered state and don't adjust them in a timely manner.

Windwalkers for example were hit pretty hard to "put them where they should be" then they turn around and revert the bulk of the nerf in the following patch.

Or Mages being launched in a pathetic state despite people commenting on the matter in PTR testing.

And Retribution now being boosted a massive amount, despite just a month ago Blizzard saying Rets were "where they want them."

Or Rogues being boosted AGAIN right before the patch went live since they were "a little low"," despite players in high end guilds commenting and asking "wtf?" because the buffs weren't needed and they're now basically destroying everyone else.

The playerbase and our data isn't always the best, but it seems like Blizzard's internal simulation data has yet to provide good balancing information. Our data might be flawed, but it seems like most every prediction by our theorycrafting community has made has proven to be correct but the concerns and comments about the matter are disregarded by Blizzard in favor of their internal sims.


if your a pure you have a chance at being OP for a whole patch. if your a hybrid you have a chance of being OP from 1 night to 1 week tops(1 week if your really lucky) before getting nerfed. At this point i think this is how blizzard does balance. Chances are since hunter is the lowest pure dps they will get buffs in 5.3 to make at least 1 of their specs top.

On a side note wars/dks usually have one sec thats either upper mid or lower top on their worst patches and 1 thats at the top on their best.

This is me attempting to analyze blizzards balance logic lol.
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90 Troll Priest
17240
So many stupid people just posting raidbots saying "NUH UH MY CLASS SUX BUFFSPLZ"
That isn't how things work..
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
a 15% buff after rets being where they wanted them to be for months.

not 1 or 2% tweaks, but 15%...


to be fair, they were flat out wrong about where the spec should be, it isnt even in the middle...more like, close to the bottom.

when you have to outgear other people just to do the same dps they do at lower gear levels, thats a pretty obvious sign there is a problem.

the devs say a lot of things that arent always true. I honestly think they need someone with some good ideas to be the lead dev for this game. GC might have good intentions, but I cant remember a time where pve and pvp balance has been so terrible, or imbalanced.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 4/19/2013 4:32 PM PDT
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
why would I? I was 100% right with my suggestions in the class balance thread. and now they are buffing sword of light to what it was before nerfs, which I suggested many times as a fix to sustained damage issues. of course, many people suggested the same thing, and well...they were right on.

well, you think sword of light is going to 30% for no reason? an assassination rogue can /afk and do more dps than ret, and all of a sudden they admit there is a problem? you dont say! im going to take this time to say "I told you so" when I suggested sword of light should have gone to 25% (like it was before beta nerfs), in PTR threads. well, look what devs are deciding to do! at least they are finally getting the message. you're welcome, GC! I will gladly share more insight in future PTR threads if you are willing to listen.

the reason it's getting buffed is because...*gasp*...they were flat out wrong about ret being in a "good spot". hey, I like my spec, but im not going to pretend its in an amazing place. mechanically, maybe. until you get 4pc and a weapon, ret is below average in every way, period.

and go figure, we get to be good again for the last tier of an xpac. just like wrath, just like cata, and just like MoP now. it's just a little annoying that the devs cant fix this kind of thing early in an xpac, instead of at the end of it.

I guarantee you in the next expansion, whenever it may be, ret will be subpar till the last tier. cause hey, why break tradition?
Edited by Sanctifìed on 4/19/2013 6:50 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
So many stupid people just posting raidbots saying "NUH UH MY CLASS SUX BUFFSPLZ"
That isn't how things work..


well if u have a frost dk and ret the difference is clear.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
@Lobster

It's not that melee are too weak. Those individual specs are just a bit too weak and don't have mechanics that translate well onto the fights. Rogues, Warriors, and Death Knights for example are beating every range that isn't a Warlock and they're melee but but thriving.

Even Windwalker is doing ok on damage, it's just seeing a further buff since it's mediocre but brings zero utility and aren't desirable.

T15's mechanics, aside from Iron Qon, are largely fine. Enh, Ret, and Feral just lack the snap gap closers that the other melee have and also don't have the multidot/cleave power the others have. So they're being boosted in straight up damage to be solid mid overall.
Edited by Bullettime on 4/19/2013 7:34 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
Cleaving/multidotting being prevalent for another tier has nothing to do with melee vs ranged. Both types are doing well this tier. Even Windwalker's cleave is basically trash and even they're doing ok relative to most ranged. The only real melee unfriendly fight this tier is Iron Qon just due to how his fire phase is structured.

Paladins, Enh, and Feral are just too low. That's all it is, and they're all being buffed.
Edited by Bullettime on 4/19/2013 7:48 PM PDT
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