Zandalari using the power of Elune.

58 Undead Death Knight
120
03/21/2013 03:15 AMPosted by Suraia
honestly, flavour text from a random NPC means nothing. It's an oversight.


The fact that it happens at all is probably the point here. The designers know (or care) so little about the Night Elves and their relationship to the rest of the Alliance that things like this slip in constantly.
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92 Night Elf Mage
10070
these other people would love to see it happen as it increases the relevance of their favoured lore over ours.


All it does it take night elf lore and make it a Horde centric storyline - like everything else has been, lately. :|

"We want more Night elf lore!"
"Ok, well here's some but we're going to give it to the trolls because Alliance mean nothing anymore."
"...."
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100 Troll Hunter
12005
Damn Suraia you're just one ticked off little kid aren't you?

Edit: Seriously go to outland get tMaiev Shadowsong to lead your people. She seems like a pissed off ready to go type of night elf. There ya go now you can go back to being warrior women on pms, all the while we trolls go away and smoke a fat joint in un'gogo or something.
Edited by Noscraig on 3/21/2013 5:54 AM PDT
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
Wrong. Where did you get that from?

"The real story is that our lady Tyrande Whisperwind has had visions of a great light we would... will... find on this journey. A light that will need to be found and defended."

aka the Vale.


http://www.wowhead.com/npc=64614

She says that Tyrande sent them as a vanguard for the Light. Capital-L Light.


Neilson recently just said that while Tauren Sunwalkers use teh light, they are taking a different path to get to the same source.

Elunites powers on the other hand, he said come straight from Elune. So them using the light is unlikely.

But yes, the constant "Night Elf/Light" crap is bugging me.

I overlooked the Night Elf priests in Cata chilling with the Argent Dawn and using light based spells like the seeing through they eyes one, because meh, game mechanics.

But I think The Light the sentinel was referencing was the vision Tyrande had.

Which fits perfectly with the definition. The Sentinels in Northrend were the vanguard for the light Tyrande saw. They are leading the way into a new phase of life that they believe will grant them immortality again.

Tyrande's voice carries a lot of weight, and it's not all that farfetched that they took on that belief when they brought with them a guy raging abotu getting back immortality.
Edited by Ferlion on 3/21/2013 10:27 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
10700
Anyone get a vibe of the transition of these Dark Trolls>Night Elves to Elune worship somewhat of a God calling Abram out to be His chosen people? Just reverse the genders and it seems to work. Sort of a Judaic reference?

Let's say in theory that Elune called out to a Dark Troll woman to a land she promised and to gather her things and leave with everyone associated with her. The woman denounced her ties to her Troll tribes and well if you're well versed in Biblical history then you know how it goes but just reverse all genders.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
"We want more Night elf lore!"
"Ok, well here's some but we're going to give it to the trolls because Alliance mean nothing anymore."
"...."
In Wrath Night Elf fans demanded Night Elf lore. They are regretting it to this day. A warning for the Draenei fans demanding Draenei lore. They couldn't so much as give a nod to what the Draenei did in BC in subsequent expansions and they actually believe something worthwhile will come from clamouring for more? What harm would their be in having Night Elf origins preserved as mystical? That was the draw of the race. Other races have a mystical origin as well. Shaped by God-like beings as part of a grander plan throughout the cosmos. Why couldn't Night Elves have it? Why did they have to be little more than mutated trolls supposedly enslaved by other trolls? Why did they go from being one of the oldest races to being one of the youngest? What purpose did it serve other than to wreck everything good about the race.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
03/21/2013 04:36 AMPosted by Gandred
honestly, flavour text from a random NPC means nothing. It's an oversight.


The fact that it happens at all is probably the point here. The designers know (or care) so little about the Night Elves and their relationship to the rest of the Alliance that things like this slip in constantly.
I remember cdev saying the mountain giants and faerie dragons weren't aiding the night elves specifically but rather aiding Azeroth against the Legion in one of the Q&A. I also remember how hysterical it was to see them say this when quests in Feralas say the exact opposite (as you rally treants, mountain giants and fey drakes to fight against the Horde). They don't remember what they wrote, they don't care that they don't remember it and contradict it with the change because they don't care for the race.
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100 Human Warrior
16460
03/21/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Suraia
Why couldn't Night Elves have it? Why did they have to be little more than mutated trolls supposedly enslaved by other trolls?


I honestly don't have a problem with the origin. People use "mutated" as if it's disparaging when Night elves did nothing but evolve from Trolls. Evolution is a good thing.

03/21/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Suraia
Why did they go from being one of the oldest races to being one of the youngest?


They're still one of the oldest, they're just not one of the first races. But one does not have to be first to be good.

Trolls were one of the first races and NE slapped them upside the head so hard they never recovered.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
Why couldn't Night Elves have it? Why did they have to be little more than mutated trolls supposedly enslaved by other trolls?


I honestly don't have a problem with the origin. People use "mutated" as if it's disparaging when Night elves did nothing but evolve from Trolls. Evolution is a good thing.
Mutation drives evolution in scientific terms; people calling them mutant trolls are unaware of this and stuck on some science fiction idea of grotesque monstronsities just trying to be insulting but the change was made pretty much to encourage such attitudes. Night Elves are farm more refined than even the Zandalari Trolls. tbh I'd rather they throw a curve ball, and have "troll and elf" be something not so clearly defined in ancient times when there was only Zandalari Troll and Night Elf (called "Dark Troll"). And have the non-Zandalari trolls be the actual mutants. Grotesque, devolved hunchbacked beings that lack the mental proficiency and prowess of their Zandalari overlords. The Zandalari already call other troll tribes disgusting and lesser than themselves and it's no accident they are using a male nelf skeleton. That would be what I'd like to see but probably won't.

03/21/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Suraia
Why did they go from being one of the oldest races to being one of the youngest?


They're still one of the oldest, they're just not one of the first races. But one does not have to be first to be good.
Trolls were one of the first races and NE slapped them upside the head so hard they never recovered.
They aren't one of the oldest any more though. The only races newer than them are dwarves/gnomes (as non-earthen/mechagnome) and Blood Elves. Possibly Orcs but their origins are extra terrestrial and no timeline was set, but there's no reason to think they aren't an ancient race in their own right. Humans go back 16000 years. Trolls just as long. Pandaren and Tauren too. They even stopped referring to the Night elves as one of the oldest races on Azeroth as its simply not true.
Edited by Suraia on 3/21/2013 2:57 PM PDT
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100 Human Warrior
16460
03/21/2013 02:56 PMPosted by Suraia
Humans go back 16000 years.


Humans are more recent than NE. Humans only came about after the Sundering. Night elves had been a civilization for thousands of years before that. We don't know when the Vrykul became flesh, I don't believe it's ever explained. We can assume it happened around the same time it happened to dwarves.

It's also implied that Goblins also came about only after the Sundering, or were nonsapient creatures before that time.

They even stopped referring to the Night elves as one of the oldest races on Azeroth as its simply not true.


They forgot to update the Archaeology pane then, because it still refers to them as one of the most ancient.
Edited by Mordstreich on 3/21/2013 4:05 PM PDT
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
03/21/2013 04:04 PMPosted by Mordstreich
Humans go back 16000 years.


Humans are more recent than NE. Humans only came about after the Sundering. Night elves had been a civilization for thousands of years before that. We don't know when the Vrykul became flesh, I don't believe it's ever explained. We can assume it happened around the same time it happened to dwarves.
Howling Fjord has quest showing flesh and blood Vrykul birthing Humans 16000 years ago during the reign of Ymiron. That's where he ordered an edict they be destroyed and any family caught protecting their "runt" babies would be imprisoned in Gjalerbron. Earthen were still Earthen at the time of the Sundering. A whole lot of races that "came about after the Sundering" are having their origins pushed back to well before the Sundering while the Night Elves continue to have centuries shaved off their history.

It's also implied that Goblins also came about only after the Sundering, or were nonsapient creatures before that time.
Admittedly never looked into it, but still.

They even stopped referring to the Night elves as one of the oldest races on Azeroth as its simply not true.


They forgot to update the Archaeology pane then, because it still refers to them as one of the most ancient.
Perhaps but http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/race/night-elf is what Im referring to. I remember it said they used to be one of the oldest races on Azeroth, which was one of the things that drew me too them. And they changed that. That's what new players will be reading before they look into the archaeology tab.
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100 Tauren Shaman
14190
03/21/2013 04:42 AMPosted by Naelaedra
these other people would love to see it happen as it increases the relevance of their favoured lore over ours.


All it does it take night elf lore and make it a Horde centric storyline - like everything else has been, lately. :|

"We want more Night elf lore!"
"Ok, well here's some but we're going to give it to the trolls because Alliance mean nothing anymore."
"...."


Wait, What? The Darkspear dont worship Elune. Seriously its not like every bit of Troll lore out there is Horde centric lore. That like saying anything related to the BL is Dreanei and therefore Allaince centric lore. Current Troll lore we have has very little to do with the Darkspears. Infact we know almost nothing of Darkspear religous practice except its similar to the Gurubashi. Who also dont worship a moon Loa.

I honestly don't have a problem with the origin. People use "mutated" as if it's disparaging when Night elves did nothing but evolve from Trolls. Evolution is a good thing.


Strickly speaking evolution tends to usually be pretty neutral and chaotic. It just change. Its also not a straight scale and its relative. Creatures can evolve to be better at surviving a famine for example, but dumber because their brain size shrinks to preserve energy. It would still be evolution.

It's also implied that Goblins also came about only after the Sundering, or were nonsapient creatures before that time.


Goblins were pre sundering. They built Deathwing's original armor which was during the War of the Anceints.

They even stopped referring to the Night elves as one of the oldest races on Azeroth as its simply not true.

They forgot to update the Archaeology pane then, because it still refers to them as one of the most ancient.


NEs have one of the oldest surviving civilisations. Human Civilisation took till well after the Sundering to really get roling. Dwarves didnt exist in their current form till only a few thousand years ago.

NE Civilisation has been around since long before the Sundering though. Infact currently we dont actually know how old NE's are as a race. We only know when their empire began to rise.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
Strickly speaking evolution tends to usually be pretty neutral and chaotic. It just change. Its also not a straight scale and its relative. Creatures can evolve to be better at surviving a famine for example, but dumber because their brain size shrinks to preserve energy. It would still be evolution.
With respect to humans, brain size grew in response to facing famine as intelligence is what provided the edge. But that's evolution in the real world. In this fantasy world it doesn't apply, no matter how much we want it to.

NEs have one of the oldest surviving civilisations. Human Civilisation took till well after the Sundering to really get roling. Dwarves didnt exist in their current form till only a few thousand years ago.

NE Civilisation has been around since long before the Sundering though. Infact currently we dont actually know how old NE's are as a race. We only know when their empire began to rise.
Night Elf civilisation's age is the biggest thing flying in the face of the retcon brigade trying to sack Night Elf lore. Suramar, where Malfurion and Illidan were born was already a huge thriving city. They were born what? 15000 years ago? Night Elves already had a large and well established empire at the time. Tyrande was also born in the same city 13000 years ago, 2 millennia go by, of relative peace, between Malfurion and Tyrande's birth. so how does all this exist if they were under the thumb of trolls until 12000 years ago? Trolls whom didn't have an empire until 16000 years ago when they defeated the Aqir. It seems to be, as a mechanism of this story, someone is lying and it will end up being the Night Elves just because...
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100 Night Elf Druid
12885
It's almost as bad as Dezco referencing the Light rather than An'she or Sunlight.

To be fair, races aren't a hive mind. Dezco personally could believe An'she and the Light are the same thing.
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86 Troll Warrior
9810
Trolls whom didn't have an empire until 16000 years ago when they defeated the Aqir. It seems to be, as a mechanism of this story, someone is lying and it will end up being the Night Elves just because...


Troll empires existed when they defeated the aqir. The Aqir came and started to battle gurubashi and amani trolls. That's what I think it is anywho.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
03/22/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Jatzulak
Trolls whom didn't have an empire until 16000 years ago when they defeated the Aqir. It seems to be, as a mechanism of this story, someone is lying and it will end up being the Night Elves just because...


Troll empires existed when they defeated the aqir. The Aqir came and started to battle gurubashi and amani trolls. That's what I think it is anywho.
They haven't even settled on that. One story says Zandalari were the first tribe and when they were defeated their empire split apart and the core of the Zandalari is what remains. The other says that it was the Amani and Gurubashi empires that existed and nothing else. The latter contradicts the Mogu tale which shows the Zandalari as the major empire north of Pandaria. It's completely convoluted and someone is going to end up being a liar. Because Night Elves have been geting denigrated to liars with respect to all their so-called ancient lore, by the retcon crew, there's no reason to believe these elf-hating tosser cdev writers will turn the Night Elf story into nothing more than fanciful BS to cover up the "sad reality" of them being nothing more than a race of useless, worthless slaves to trolls, further trashing the race to the point where just logging onto a Night Elf, as a proud fan of how they were introduced, makes you cringe and want to throw your toon over a cliff.
Edited by Suraia on 3/22/2013 7:06 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
16765
A Haruspex is not a Priest.

A Haruspex is what the Zandalar call their Druids. Or at least the closest thing they have to Druids. You really don't need to read in to the "deeper meaning" of Zandalari Druids using iconic druid abilities.

We've known this ever since the first Zul'Gurub.
Edited by Sylassanna on 3/22/2013 7:52 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
16765
Seriously. Guys. When you see a word in WoW you do not recognize, don't just type it into Google and then run wild.

You might want to run it through Wowpedia or Wowhead, first:

http://www.wowpedia.org/Haruspex%27s_Garb

"A haruspex is a key member of our tribe; you'll be wise to listen to their portents. By communion with animals and givin' them up to the spirits when needed, they give us divine guidance. In times past, the haruspex's insight and wisdom gave us an edge in the wars against the splintered tribes of the Gurubashi."

"We Zandalar know not of druidic ways; nature is to be shaped by our need, not the other way around. Still, a haruspex is the one of us most in tune with nature, and rightly so. To give up the ghost of a beastie is to know what it is to be one of them. That is the real power of nature.

Bring me an offerin' of the Paragons of Power from inside Zul'Gurub, proving yourself to us. Do this, and I'll give ya a powerful item - a belt used by many of the Zandalar's haruspices.

Strong mojo, ya mon!"
Edited by Sylassanna on 3/22/2013 7:58 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
11070
The Zandalari don't have druids. They have something similar, but they're not druids: and the text you posted above clearly proves that. They're "priests" not in gameplay terms, but probably cultural terms (in the sense that they are religious leaders- with trolls, the line between priest and shaman are often blurry). The fact that they can use starfire, however, and that this starfire is clearly moon related based on its color, is interesting (and I believe I was the one who told Ferlion about all this). I would not at all be surprised if at least some tribes of trolls had a loa that was conspicuously similar to Elune, in the same way that Tauren have Muusha. Whether or not they acknowledge this loa as the same being as the Night Elves, and whether or not they've dealt with it personally to use its power is up in the air.
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