WW Monks rank dead last in PVP burst for DPS

85 Worgen Rogue
8465
Misleading title. Please qualify that this is with no ramp up time, which is a big deal without TEB. Also the fire mage and destro locks timer didn't start until after chaos bolt and pyroblast were cast... which is another few seconds added on.

I can smash almost anyone equally geared and most slightly better geared. I will admit I can't really kill healers equal gear... but I think its consensus that no one can, and that they can't kill me.


Except that he does ramp up before hand and does use TEB. Go to 1:52min mark in the video focus on Reqy's Pic and you'll see TEB used along with Orc Racial.

So max ww burst is on tank level. That makes it 2 times behind most burst and 3 times behind the best burst.

Welcome to being a 2nd class citizen dps in arena and vs some classes your a 3rd class citizen.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5015
The other day I was in the mines bg (as MW) and I went toward water for the mine cart. I ride over and it was a WW trying to guard it. Was I worried? I think the answer is obvious.

The monk dropped the cat and popped cds and yet he could barely damage me, while at the same time I managed to kill him/her with just chi wave and chaining lightning.

I guess it kinda worked out that I had not yet reached 90 when the patch and nerf went live. It was because of this that I had not yet spent any currency on WW pvp gear.

I do hope that WW gets fixed in terms of pvp. Since they have not yet responded to the obvious screw up yet, it is looking more and more likely that they will be stubborn, claiming everything is fine and just wait for 5.3 to do anything.

Of course there will continue to be the mindless supporters who will try their best to talk about how everyone is wrong and that basic designs flaws of the mastery talent are non-existent, but that is always the case. We still have people even today that think the earth is 6000 years old despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If you are set on being WW in pvp, I wish you all the best of luck. The one positive is that you will be so well trained in getting the absolute most out of the gimped spec that when buffs do finally arrive it will be glorious face rolling time. Hopefully that time it will take longer than a few hours for the nerf bat to make its appearance.
Edited by Soldeus on 3/21/2013 12:32 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
8930
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgdqN2u7yZY

Fire Mage: 2.9
Arms Warrior: 3.1
Frost Mage: 3.9
Sub Rogue: 4.2
Hunter: 4.2
Feral Druid: 4.4
Frost DK: 4.8
Shadow Priest: 5.5
Destro lock: 6.8
Elemental Shaman: 7.5
Ret Paladin: 7.6
Boomkin: 7.9 Seconds
WW Monk: 8.6 Seconds
Blood DK: 9.9 Seconds

We are barely a second faster than a Blood DK (Tank) when it comes to burst damage. Do you think our damage takes way too long to ramp up?
I would take this video with a pinch of salt, Reqy didn't have any tiger's eye brew stacks which is where WW burst comes from.

All this video means is that every other class happens to be better off with their burst earlier on in the game.

I am not however saying that WW burst is alright, I'm just saying that this video doesn't do a good job at showing it off.


Don't you guys understand this is a PVP setting!? Their is no way in a Arena match your going to get the required 10 stacks of TeB and live! If you do your a PVP god for staying alive long enough to get 10 stacks. We have PVE in the bag because we are able to get to 10 stacks of TeB adn burst, not so in pvp.
Edited by Nakoruru on 3/21/2013 12:35 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
3530
Somebody had to be last. I hope you realize that if you weren't last, whatever class that was would be crying just as much.
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90 Goblin Priest
1605
Somebody had to be last. I hope you realize that if you weren't last, whatever class that was would be crying just as much.


You fail to miss the entire point bud, its how far monks are behind, not that fact that they are last but 2 to 3 times less damage than most of the classes. Take out the outliers like fire mage and blood dk we are doing 2.8x less than the top.

So why would you bring a monk over a warrior when they can burst 3x better than you? You wouldn't. Boomkins aren't burst classes, they are multi dotting in RBG's and they are not competitive in arena. Warlocks (my main) require ramp up times and destro. is not an arena spec it is RBG's when you can build up chaos bolts, pop CD and hit for 200k+.

To be honest WW monks bring nothing to the table right now, its sad and I shelved mine a while back. Its not that they are just plain terrible but its just that nearly every class does it better in a group pvp environment.
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88 Human Monk
2270
Look a priest and a warlock arguing over monks isnt that cute.
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At lvl 89 anyways


Come on dude, really, do you know there is a huge difference b/t 90 and 89?
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90 Pandaren Monk
12480
Misleading title. Please qualify that this is with no ramp up time, which is a big deal without TEB. Also the fire mage and destro locks timer didn't start until after chaos bolt and pyroblast were cast... which is another few seconds added on.

I can smash almost anyone equally geared and most slightly better geared. I will admit I can't really kill healers equal gear... but I think its consensus that no one can, and that they can't kill me.


Except that he does ramp up before hand and does use TEB. Go to 1:52min mark in the video focus on Reqy's Pic and you'll see TEB used along with Orc Racial.

So max ww burst is on tank level. That makes it 2 times behind most burst and 3 times behind the best burst.

Welcome to being a 2nd class citizen dps in arena and vs some classes your a 3rd class citizen.


Look again, before he uses it he has no stacks, he gets 1 stack as he uses his CDs. Just watch at 1:49 on.

03/21/2013 11:58 AMPosted by Kâin
Well Ive yet to have problems with any class other than hunter. At lvl 89 anyways. At lvl 90, I heard reqy saying somewhere that he beats 90% of the classes he fights 1v1 except huntards and locks, but I guess Ill find out when I hit 90. Debating on if I wanna hit 90 or lvl hunter up from 85-89 and compare.


At 90, everything changes for a monk.

I'm sure one of the best monk players in WoW can beat the majority of players he's up against. We all like to pretend we're all equally skilled at this game here on the WoW forum and, if we lose, it's because of gear/class sucks... but skill does play a huge factor.

I'm fairly certain he can't beat 90% of the best players in WoW who play ranged classes though.


True, everyone does think they are the best, thats fine as long as they back it up. I didnt see him fight at 90 so I cant speak for that. Atm Im just trying to decide if I should main as a monk or stick with my MM hunter.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12480
03/21/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Sönic
At lvl 89 anyways


Come on dude, really, do you know there is a huge difference b/t 90 and 89?


I would take this video with a pinch of salt, Reqy didn't have any tiger's eye brew stacks which is where WW burst comes from.

All this video means is that every other class happens to be better off with their burst earlier on in the game.

I am not however saying that WW burst is alright, I'm just saying that this video doesn't do a good job at showing it off.


Don't you guys understand this is a PVP setting!? Their is no way in a Arena match your going to get the required 10 stacks of TeB and live! If you do your a PVP god for staying alive long enough to get 10 stacks. We have PVE in the bag because we are able to get to 10 stacks of TeB adn burst, not so in pvp.


No, its a burst video. If you wanna get technical the enemy wouldnt just stand there either, should they move around and use defensive cds also?

03/21/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Sönic
At lvl 89 anyways


Come on dude, really, do you know there is a huge difference b/t 90 and 89?


Obviously, thats why I said at lvl 89 anyways....invest in glasses.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8930
No, its a burst video. If you wanna get technical the enemy wouldnt just stand there either, should they move around and use defensive cds also?

@Zheuk The point of this thread is to show that monks have no burst within the time it takes to get 10 stack of brew before a fix target dies, we are dead last at burst so just think about what we do when the target fights back. That saying...nothing wrong with being last but by how far last is the kicker.
Edited by Nakoruru on 3/21/2013 5:53 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
12480
03/21/2013 05:50 PMPosted by Nakoruru
No, its a burst video. If you wanna get technical the enemy wouldnt just stand there either, should they move around and use defensive cds also?

@Zheuk The point of this thread is to show that monks have no burst within the time it takes to get 10 stack of brew before a fix target dies, we are dead last at burst so just think about what we do when the target fights back. That saying...nothing wrong with being last but by how far last is the kicker.


No I get that, my point is, he could atleast show how we are with 10 stacks of TEB up. Atleast then we can see how we compare even at our best instead of our worst. Id still assume we would be around the 5.5-6 second mark. I still think they should revert that unwarranted and stupid 15% damage nerf and give us a cd that gives us 10 stacks of TEB right of the bat, or just make it so each stack takes 1-2 chi to build, would make it much easier.
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03/21/2013 06:00 PMPosted by Zheuk

@Zheuk The point of this thread is to show that monks have no burst within the time it takes to get 10 stack of brew before a fix target dies, we are dead last at burst so just think about what we do when the target fights back. That saying...nothing wrong with being last but by how far last is the kicker.


No I get that, my point is, he could atleast show how we are with 10 stacks of TEB up. Atleast then we can see how we compare even at our best instead of our worst. Id still assume we would be around the 5.5-6 second mark. I still think they should revert that unwarranted and stupid 15% damage nerf and give us a cd that gives us 10 stacks of TEB right of the bat, or just make it so each stack takes 1-2 chi to build, would make it much easier.


Besides the fact that it takes a lot of reforging to make our mastery work for us. Said reforging costs us quite a bit in damage outside of TeB usage. Besides the fact that we were nerfed a further 12% in order to make up for bliz's predicted performance of TeB with BiS gear. Besides the fact that the video showed what a WW's ON DEMAND BURST is.

What more do you want to know/see here? Why are you trying to argue against what the video shows? If we're not given the chance to stack TeB our damage is going to be only slightly more than a blood dk's.

I'd LOVE to go back to 5.1's version of WW. BLizzard's goal for WW in 5.2 was for us to be desirable in pvp. They made a few changes in that regard with our quality of life fixes. They then decided to nerf the hell out of us, and build us around a broken mechanic.

Quality of life fixes are just that, changes to mistakes that blizzard made in our design, that impeded our success due to poor design. They're not buffs.

TeB, it's so OBVIOUSLY a broken mechanic, the ONLY reason people didn't complain about it in the PTR too much was because our steady damage was staying the same. Or so we thought. No more than 24 hrs after the patch went live, we were hit with the nerfs bliz had planned for us all along. Now they're still collating data, weeks later, while at the same time buffing mages even further.

This game has gotten ridiculous. The class favoritism shown by the devs just knows no bounds. They WILL do what they want to your class, and justify it behind any damn thing they feel like, and there will always be people like you who'll support them until someone lays down the facts for you.
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Seriously, the only reason I get to even use TeB in pvp is because it persists through death. By the time I've fought a couple of people i'll have a stack of 8 or 9.
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88 Human Monk
2270
03/22/2013 11:57 PMPosted by Weezul
Look a priest and a warlock arguing over monks isnt that cute.


Oh look an 86 monk who hasnt even made it to 90. Want me to post on my 90 monk instead? retard


I can post on my 90 monk as well dipstick
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90 Night Elf Monk
5885
03/21/2013 10:26 AMPosted by Zaknafiën
Also pyro is insanely RNG based, so would like to see several iterations of the above "tests." Smells a little funny to me all in all.


Pyro is RNG but u can docontrol of it with fireblast and shatter makes it a almost sure proc.
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90 Human Monk
9460
Pretty fkn sure i won this contest but he threw it out because 0.0 seconds shouldn't count.
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93 Troll Shaman
5600
One cannot have it all, unless he advocates a classless game, devoid of uniqueness
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The swifty's video is not an accurate portrayal of real burst, the timer starts when the target recieves damage. Both fire and frost mages take at least 3 seconds of preparation before they burst like that, they needed Damage CD, the target to be frozen (in the video with Frostjaw a 1.5 sec cast), precasting the next damage skill and also frozen orb. So their full burst combo actually needs 7 seconds, and that is the minimum, it is probably 8 or 9.

I can also speak for the Rogue, that burst is doable. The only problem is that it takes 2 talents almost no one uses.

I dont know anything about warriors, but that seems to be legit 100to0 stuff.

So there you go, of the top 4 times, 2 are not legit and 1 is never gona happen to you against 95% of rogues.

Also, monks burst is good, it will probably never gonna be in top 5 taking into account their insane mobility and control, even better than that of rogues or mages. So yeah, monks are good.
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90 Human Priest
8040
03/21/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Zheuk


Come on dude, really, do you know there is a huge difference b/t 90 and 89?




Don't you guys understand this is a PVP setting!? Their is no way in a Arena match your going to get the required 10 stacks of TeB and live! If you do your a PVP god for staying alive long enough to get 10 stacks. We have PVE in the bag because we are able to get to 10 stacks of TeB adn burst, not so in pvp.


No, its a burst video. If you wanna get technical the enemy wouldnt just stand there either, should they move around and use defensive cds also?

03/21/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Sönic


Come on dude, really, do you know there is a huge difference b/t 90 and 89?


Obviously, thats why I said at lvl 89 anyways....invest in glasses.


The swifty's video is not an accurate portrayal of real burst, the timer starts when the target recieves damage. Both fire and frost mages take at least 3 seconds of preparation before they burst like that, they needed Damage CD, the target to be frozen (in the video with Frostjaw a 1.5 sec cast), precasting the next damage skill and also frozen orb. So their full burst combo actually needs 7 seconds, and that is the minimum, it is probably 8 or 9.

I can also speak for the Rogue, that burst is doable. The only problem is that it takes 2 talents almost no one uses.

I dont know anything about warriors, but that seems to be legit 100to0 stuff.

So there you go, of the top 4 times, 2 are not legit and 1 is never gona happen to you against 95% of rogues.

Also, monks burst is good, it will probably never gonna be in top 5 taking into account their insane mobility and control, even better than that of rogues or mages. So yeah, monks are good.


There you have it guys, straight from the mouth of someone that has never played competitive anything.
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