Zandalari Paladins

90 Troll Hunter
13170
03/21/2013 02:12 AMPosted by Suraia
ya, never mind the whole summoning Hakkar, abusing and even destroying your loa in a last ditch attempt to destroy everyone around you. Some trolls never learn.

We've never seen actual proof that Hakkar is evil. We only have second hand accounts.

And of our two encounters with Hakkar, one is the original boss fight, and one is where we help him and he helps us.

03/21/2013 02:12 AMPosted by Suraia
He was gearing up for war with Quel'thalas.

And he would be righteous in doing so. As righteous as the Alliance fighting to take Lordaeron or Ashenvale.

03/21/2013 02:12 AMPosted by Suraia
He could've sucked it up

And the Night Elves can suck up Garrosh building his new capitol in Ashenvale.

Sound good?

So they lived fine along side the humans there and never kidnapped them to sacrifice them and cannibalise their remains as they've been known to do in canon?

No, the Wolvar Tribes in Northrend were on friendly terms with the Drakkari. Not just coexisting. They were friends.

03/21/2013 02:14 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
I'm gonna have to agree with this statement for the most part.

Never mind that every diplomatic attempt with a Troll tribe has ended in success.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/21/2013 2:19 AM PDT
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
ya, never mind the whole summoning Hakkar, abusing and even destroying your loa in a last ditch attempt to destroy everyone around you. Some trolls never learn.

We've never seen actual proof that Hakkar is evil. We only have second hand accounts.
Um, being mind controlled to murder your raid is proof enough. He's evil on account of he doesn't give crap for mortals and happily disposes of them after he's used them. He's a tyrant and lives on blood. Never the less, the Gurubashi summoned him as a means of waging war against the greater world. Which is why the Zandalari wanted us to stop them.

And of our two encounters with Hakkar, one is the original boss fight, and one is where we help him and he helps us.
We break his chains, all he does is destroy Jin'do's soul and spare us. Jin'do could've been handled without Hakkar unleashing his vengeance on him. BUt why would he let us have all the fun?

He was gearing up for war with Quel'thalas.

And he would be righteous in doing so. As righteous as the Alliance fighting to take Lordaeron or Ashenvale.
I don't see how. If they remained in the Horde there wouldn't be any war. They might be mad at each other, and suspicious, but overtime it would go away. Instead they they picked a fight with the Horde, which defends its allies, and got rolled.

03/21/2013 02:15 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
And the Night Elves can suck up Garrosh building his new capitol in Ashenvale.
This example only works if the Night Elves were in the Horde. I don't even know why you'd digress to idiocy just to take a stab at me. Besides the Orcs were defeated in Ashenvale. There is nothing to suck up, allies in the Horde are allies in the Horde. The blood elves set aside their lingering mistrust and dislike for Orcs to join them under mutual protection. Zul'jin being a hate-filled racist and xenophobe, like all trolls, would rather throw himself into a war he couldn't possibly win than move on

So they lived fine along side the humans there and never kidnapped them to sacrifice them and cannibalise their remains as they've been known to do in canon?

No, the Wolvar Tribes in Northrend were on friendly terms with the Drakkari. Not just coexisting. They were friends. [/quote]True.
Edited by Suraia on 3/21/2013 2:25 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
Never mind that every diplomatic attempt with a Troll tribe has ended in success.


That's all you're gonna take out of my whole post? Eh.

Fine then, do share. The alliances trolls have made with those outside their race by and large were only for personal gain.

It has been shown time and time again that Trolls generally look down on anyone who isn't a Troll.

They are the cause of the vast majority of their own problems simply because they feel entitled to every bit of land on Azeroth.

Well mon dis land not be just troll land anymore. You either deal with it and adapt or you go extinct.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 3/21/2013 2:24 AM PDT
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90 Troll Hunter
13170
03/21/2013 02:21 AMPosted by Suraia
He's evil on account of he doesn't give crap for mortals and happily disposes of them after he's used them. He's a tyrant and lives on blood.

Where exactly is that said?

Elune also lives on blood.

we help him. Remember? We break his chains, all he does it destroy Jin'do's soul and spare us.

He destroys Jin'do's soul and releases us from the spirit world, in gratitude.

03/21/2013 02:21 AMPosted by Suraia
I don't see how. If they remained in the Horde there wouldn't be any war. They might be mad at each other, and suspicious, but overtime it would go away. Instead they they picked a fight with the Horde, which defends its allies, and got rolled.

Okay, so Garrosh can set up his capitol on top of sacred trees, and eventually, the Alliance's animosity for that will go away.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
And he would be righteous in doing so. As righteous as the Alliance fighting to take Lordaeron or Ashenvale.

And the Night Elves can suck up Garrosh building his new capitol in Ashenvale.

Sound good?


They aren't even comparable situations.

In Quel'Thalas, you have Zul'jin trying to invade a place he and his people weren't born in, in order to remove the people that were born there, all for the sake of an empire that existed thousands of years ago.

In Ashenvale, you have the Night Elves fighting on the defensive to save the homes they've lived in for thousands of years against an aggressive invader with no stake in the place.
Edited by Gandred on 3/21/2013 2:28 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
Where exactly is that said?

Elune also lives on blood.


Really?

What is it with you and defending evil, terrible beings. Is every bad guy in the world just some poor misunderstood soul to you?

Or only when it's a character from one of your favored bits? Jeez.

He destroys Jin'do's soul and releases us from the spirit world, in gratitude.


"Be freed, insects. I will deal with you another time."

Oh yeah, that's gratitude alright. He basically just said we weren't' worth killing right now. He's so benevolent.

Stop the delusions.
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90 Troll Hunter
13170
03/21/2013 02:23 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
Fine then, do share.

Not including the Darkspear...

We have the Revantusk, Shatterspear, and Jellynecks joining the Horde.

We had Zul'Aman joining the Horde in WC2.

We had the friendly relations the Drakkari had with the Wolvar.

The Zandalari's Alliance with the Mogu.

And that's it. Because no one else is willing to be diplomatic with a Troll tribe because they're rather just squat on their land.

They are the cause of the vast majority of their own problems simply because they feel entitled to every bit of land on Azeroth.

The Night Elves are the cause of the vast majority of their own problems simply because they feel entitled to every bit of Northern Kalimdor.

See, I can do it too.

The fact is, the Elves squatted on Amani Land. You can't blame them for having a problem with it.

03/21/2013 02:26 AMPosted by Gandred
They aren't even comparable situations.

Why not? It's the exact same thing.

Really?

If you can tell me an evil thing Hakkar has done, please, share. All we have are second hand accounts.

*tinfoil hat*

I still think Hakkar is An'she.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/21/2013 2:29 AM PDT
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
Where exactly is that said?

Elune also lives on blood.
Did you ever run ZG? Or do you limit your entire experience to things outside of actual gameplay? Elune doesn't live on blood. She accepts blood sacrifices, she doesn't demand them.

Okay, so Garrosh can set up his capitol on top of sacred trees, and eventually, the Alliance's animosity for that will go away.
Again not even the same thing. You're just digressing, taking stabs at Night Elves cause you've run out of things to say. Let's have the Horde invite the Naga into their ranks. They can stay in Echo Isles. WOuld the Darkspear leave, consume Loa and destroy themselves in a futile attempt to fight the Orcs? Or would they accept them, and try to move forward (since say, the Naga joining benefits the Horde as a whole). Vol'jin isn't a hate-filled bigot so he'd be smart about it, unlike Zul'jin.

He destroys Jin'do's soul and releases us from the spirit world, in gratitude.
"be free insects I will deal with you another time."
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
The Night Elves are the cause of the vast majority of their own problems simply because they feel entitled to every bit of Northern Kalimdor.
It's their land and has been for 10000+ years. Defending it isn't creating their own problems. You talk like a complete fool.

I still think Hakkar is An'she.
and I still think Hakkar is nothing more than a self-aggrandizing tyrannical loa and nothing more.
Edited by Suraia on 3/21/2013 2:31 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
03/21/2013 02:27 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
Because no one else is willing to be diplomatic with a Troll tribe


So basically you just listed every situation where it was simply an Alliance of personal gain or necessity or it was just outright and Alliance with another big, bad race.

Yeah, not helping your case at all. They certainly aren't doing it to be all peace and love and friendship.

Hell the new question in Pandaria and on Thunder Isle and the new raid in particular show them as little more then lapdogs to the Thunder Kind.

Rather sad for an ancient race pre dating the Titans coming, being subservient to a race of Titan constructs gone bad.
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90 Troll Hunter
13170
Did you ever run ZG? Or do you limit your entire experience to things outside of actual gameplay? Elune doesn't live on blood. She accepts blood sacrifices, she doesn't demand them.

Hakkar doesn't live off of blood either. It just gives him power.

03/21/2013 02:29 AMPosted by Suraia
Again not even the same thing. You're just digressing, taking stabs at Night Elves cause you've run out of things to say. Let's have the Horde invite the Naga into their ranks. They can stay in Echo Isles. WOuld the Darkspear leave, consume Loa and destroy themselves in a futile attempt to fight the Orcs? Or would they accept them, and try to move forward (since say, the Naga joining benefits the Horde as a whole). Vol'jin isn't a hate-filled bigot so he'd be smart about it, unlike Zul'jin.

See, none of those things are okay.

The Darkspear shouldn't accept Naga on the Echo Isles. The Naga are the reason they joined the Horde in the first place.

The Night Elves shouldn't accept Garrosh in Ashenvale either. And the Amani shouldn't accept High Elves on their land.

03/21/2013 02:30 AMPosted by Suraia
It's their land and has been for 10000+ years.

And that (Modern day Quel'Thalas) was Amani land for maybe longer.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/21/2013 2:32 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Elune also lives on blood.


Didn't the ered'ruin exist to stop that kind of thing? Weird that the titans never had issues with Elune.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
03/21/2013 02:27 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
Why not? It's the exact same thing.


In Quel'Thalas, you have Zul'jin trying to invade a place he and his people weren't born in, in order to remove the people that were born there, all for the sake of an empire that existed thousands of years ago.

In Ashenvale, you have the Night Elves fighting on the defensive to save the homes they've lived in for thousands of years against an aggressive invader with no stake in the place.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
I still think Hakkar is An'she.


And I think you're delusional and have a severe case of, as much as I despise the term, fanboyism.

You know what lets just call it bias.

You rarely concede that your fan favorite peoples/groups/whatevers in lore have done any wrong and you straight up ignore facts to make wild and crazy claims to their benevolence or vicitimhood.

Really this is your craziest bit yet.
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90 Troll Hunter
13170
In Quel'Thalas, you have Zul'jin trying to invade a place he and his people weren't born in, in order to remove the people that were born there, all for the sake of an empire that existed thousands of years ago.

Zul'jin didn't do any invading before we raided Zul'Aman. I don't even remember quest lines about it.

All we had was Budd and Harrison Jones and Treasure Hunting, remember?
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
And that was Amani land for maybe longer.
proof? none. you speculate. Which is funny since you fancy your speculation as canon. Headcanon's don't count as to what is written.

See, none of those things are okay.

The Darkspear shouldn't accept Naga on the Echo Isles. The Naga are the reason they joined the Horde in the first place.

The Night Elves shouldn't accept Garrosh in Ashenvale either. And the Amani shouldn't accept High Elves on their land.
Your comparison is rubbish though. Now a better comparison would be "Varian invites the Orcs into the Alliance and gives them Ashenvale". But then that still would be inaccurate as Thrall wasn't giving Zul'aman to the Blood Elves. He was effectively making Quel'thalas allied territory for the Amani trolls. Which means they could hunt and fish in Blood Elf lands AS ALLIES. but they are racist against the blood elves and refuse to ever ally themselves. Night Elves haven't done that at all. They've happily invited Horde races to defend the holiest of holies to Night Elves in Nordrassil. So why you bring the Night Elves up is beyond me other than petty stabs. They aren't xenophobic at all.
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90 Troll Hunter
13170
You rarely concede that your fan favorite peoples/groups/whatevers in lore have done any wrong and you straight up ignore facts to make wild and crazy claims to their benevolence or vicitimhood.

I've never said any of the characters I like were benevolent or tried to victimize them. I know Grom did terrible things.

Really this is your craziest bit yet.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6368646992

Everyone else seemed to like it.

Your comparison is rubbish though. Now a better comparison would be "Varian invites the Orcs into the Alliance and gives them Ashenvale". But then that still would be inaccurate as Thrall wasn't giving Zul'aman to the Blood Elves. He was effectively making Quel'thalas allied territory for the Amani trolls. Which means they could hunt and fish in Blood Elf lands AS ALLIES. but they are racist against the blood elves and refuse to ever ally themselves. Night Elves haven't done that at all. They've happily invited Horde races to defend the holiest of holies to Night Elves in Nordrassil. So why you bring the Night Elves up is beyond me other than petty stabs. They aren't xenophobic at all.

The Amani and the Elves were enemies long before the Horde got the Blood Elves to join. I'm not even referring to that, I'm referring to the Troll Wars.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/21/2013 2:37 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
Didn't the ered'ruin exist to stop that kind of thing? Weird that the titans never had issues with Elune.


Sacrificial magic was considered the biggest bad by them yes, as for the Titans having issue with Elune there is never any mention of her being around when the Titans were that I can recall.

I really don't recall blood sacrifices to her off hand, although considering the Night Elves heritage it's not surprising.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
In Quel'Thalas, you have Zul'jin trying to invade a place he and his people weren't born in, in order to remove the people that were born there, all for the sake of an empire that existed thousands of years ago.
The Amani lost out to Quel'thalas thousands of years before Zul'jin was ever born. The bad blood continued when the Amani joined the Dark Horde in a bid to get the land back. They stayed on in the new Horde and then when Thrall invited the Blood Elves in, a shadow of the race the Amani once called an enemy, which would've effectively turned all the old land they had lost into friendly territory, they were pissed. That makes no sense to me. And yet you bring up the defense of Ashenvale. Okay
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
Zul'jin didn't do any invading before we raided Zul'Aman. I don't even remember quest lines about it.

All we had was Budd and Harrison Jones and Treasure Hunting, remember?


You claimed he would be as righteous in attacking Quel'Thalas as the Night Elves are in defending Ashenvale. This...

In Quel'Thalas, you have Zul'jin trying to invade a place he and his people weren't born in, in order to remove the people that were born there, all for the sake of an empire that existed thousands of years ago.

In Ashenvale, you have the Night Elves fighting on the defensive to save the homes they've lived in for thousands of years against an aggressive invader with no stake in the place.


... says otherwise.
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