Zandalari Paladins

10 Night Elf Hunter
60
I suppose he's just supposed to sit in the corner and think about what he's done, then.
Look, here's the best example right? If 1000 years later in an alternate timeline where Garrosh seized Ashenvale from the Night Elves, defeats them utterly and exiles them to the Eastern Kingdoms (and mind you Night Elves could potentially all still be alive for it), some benevolent Orc warchief accepts the Night Elves into the Horde after they had a massive fall out in the Alliance, and allows them to resettle in Ashenvale, the Night Elves would be complete fools not to take the deal. Thats the best example. A lot of time has past, the actors responsible for the suffering are dead and gone, a new generation of your own people wants to return, whats the problem? Oh hate against the orcs would stop it? even though a 1000 years have past?
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
I'm arguing that Zul'jin would be justified in waging a war against Quel'thalas (Which he never actually did.)


Then you should have said that he's justified, rather than saying he's just as justified as the Night Elves are.

Oh, and he did declare war on QT, actually.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/the-story-of-warcraft/chapter13

"Upon hearing that these newly christened "blood elves" had become part of the Horde in his absence, the infuriated Zul'jin declared war on both Horde and Alliance."
Edited by Gandred on 3/21/2013 3:02 AM PDT
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
If it is, just do the same for an Alliance race. I vote Worgen.
The problem is they are using least played races instead of most played ones. Dwarves and Trolls are the least played races respectively.

It would be dwarf instead of worgen on account of all they'd need is druids and they can make up whatever BS about getting so drunk they turned into an animal as lore.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
When I referenced the Night Elves, I wasn't comparing them to our attack on Zul'Aman or a hypothetical war on Quel'thalas. I was comparing it to thousands of years ago when the Elves first built Silvermoon.

Oh, and he did declare war on QT, actually.

Well, he was righteous in doing so (Never read those tabs before)
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/21/2013 3:03 AM PDT
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
03/21/2013 03:02 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
When I referenced the Night Elves, I wasn't comparing them to our attack on Zul'Aman or a hypothetical war on Quel'thalas. I was comparing it to thousands of years ago when the Elves first built Silvermoon.


He [Zul'jin] was gearing up for war with Quel'thalas.


And he would be righteous in doing so. As righteous as the Alliance fighting to take Lordaeron or Ashenvale.


Not in the post I responded to, you weren't.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
03/21/2013 03:00 AMPosted by Gandred
I'm arguing that Zul'jin would be justified in waging a war against Quel'thalas (Which he never actually did.)
yes he did, during the second war. That's why he lost his arm and eye...

"Zul'jin and the Amani tribe were allied with the orcish Horde for the duration of the Second War, but Zul'jin himself was captured near its end by the Alliance. Upon gaining his freedom he went into hiding to rebuild his army and plan an attack on the remnants of the high elves, now known as blood elves, only to find them allied with the Horde."

"Upon hearing that these newly christened "blood elves" had become part of the Horde in his absence, the infuriated Zul'jin declared war on both Horde and Alliance.[2] Reaffirming his hatred for the outside world, Zul'jin resolved to take down all of his enemies with this dark new power."

Tell me how he's got a measured response
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
Not in the post I responded to, you weren't.

Even so, the Forest Trolls had been living there for an undetermined amount of time (The RPG books places the Twin Empires as being 21,000 years old or something, I know it's not canon, but it's a hint at least). They would be justified in trying to take back lands that was taken from them in the past.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
I was comparing it to thousands of years ago when the Elves first built Silvermoon.
7000 years at ~40 years an adult is 175 generations of trolls having gone by since Silvermoon was founded. The only reason they keep on fighting is because they've bred hatred in every generation over 175 of them.... they are written that way, why deny it lol
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
03/21/2013 03:09 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
Not in the post I responded to, you weren't.

Even so, the Forest Trolls had been living there for an undetermined amount of time (The RPG books places the Twin Empires as being 21,000 years old or something, I know it's not canon, but it's a hint at least). They would be justified in trying to take back lands that was taken from them in the past.
the Zandalari story completely throws that concept out. Two bigreasons, one being there was no huge troll empire until the Aqir were defeated 16000 years ago, the empire was defeated and laid low by the night elves 12000 years ago, and Zul'aman is no where near Silvermoon, and that was 7000 years ago... The Elves didn't hold their grudges and they had about a thousand years per capita of build it up... Troll grudges are irrational to their very core. They are upset about things and act in the present over things that happened 5000 years ago... and they aren't immortal...
Edited by Suraia on 3/21/2013 3:16 AM PDT
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100 Troll Shaman
17740
Derailed thread is derailed...

So, if the remains of the Zandalar Tribe gets to be absorved by the Darkspear and the Horde, chances are that we get Troll Paladins the next expansion...
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03/21/2013 02:21 AMPosted by Suraia
Um, being mind controlled to murder your raid is proof enough.


Stupid reasoning. He's justified in defending himself from a raid trying to kill him. Not a point up for discussion. So we now just have a discussion of methods, and mind control is as common in WoW as calling down bolts of lightning to smite your enemies.

03/21/2013 02:38 AMPosted by Suraia
The Amani lost out to Quel'thalas thousands of years before Zul'jin was ever born.


Now are you saying we need to hold onto eastern Ashenvale for a couple of thousand years, or just until every Night Elf alive when we first took it has died off? Because if it's the later, I'm feeling alot better about butchering me some Nelfs.
Edited by Dorcy on 3/21/2013 4:15 AM PDT
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Derailed thread is derailed...

So, if the remains of the Zandalar Tribe gets to be absorved by the Darkspear and the Horde, chances are that we get Troll Paladins the next expansion...


True, but then Trolls would be the uber-race capable of doing everything. It could happen, but Blizzard may want to save themselves the headache that would come from people asking for Dwarven Druids.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9440
03/21/2013 02:06 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
But Zul'jin was entirely justified and right. "We Amani was here before anyone!" The Elves took his home, tortured him, took his eye, and he cut off his arm to escape. Hell, Silvermoon was build on sacred Forest Troll ruins. To find them alongside his old allies? Heartbreaking, and enraging. Zul'Aman is the only raid where I wished I could turn and kill my raid mates rather than the bosses.


<3
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90 Troll Hunter
10125
A troll pally just seem weird to me . I kinda like how every race has that one class it can't be. Kinda makes em unique and such I feel.

Trolls are more shamanistic and like to play around with nature/beast. Going Paladin just seems un troll like.

Edit: I'm sure the troll empire was around before the aqir wars wasn't it? It got split up after the war with them when we both belted each other into a draw and split each others empires apart.

Edit 2: What the !@#$ aren't we talking about Troll paladins?
Edited by Noscraig on 3/21/2013 5:34 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
I love how that history tab places Budd's invasion of Zul'Aman before Zul'jin declared war on the Alliance and Horde, and people are still trying to play it off as Troll aggression.

Right, let's take a quick look at some of the more inane arguments here, before bringing things full circle to deal with Troll paladins.

The belief that the Trolls are xenophobic because they keep defending themselves from invaders is bizarre, to say the least.

Obviously, there's the fact that every single time anyone has ever attempted to approach Trolls diplomatically, it's ended in successful relationships and even friendship, which kind of singlehandedly makes the posit that they're universally xenophobic patently untrue, but let's go beyond the obvious.

Each of the wars Trolls have been engaged in have been defensive in nature. First with the Aqir who wanted to exterminate all non-insectoid life, then the expansionist Night Elves who ended up blowing up the planet, then the High Elves, Dwarves and Humans, until we get to the modern era.

In vanilla, we were fighting Zul'Farrak because they had loot we wanted. We were culling local Troll populations in Stranglethorn unrelated to the Hakkari because we wanted their stuff. Zul'Aman was invaded by treasure hunters before Zul'jin ever declared war on anyone. The Scourge invaded Zul'Drak with not one, but three necropoli, and the Argent Crusade, instead of providing support, sent us in to kill the Drakkari.

4.1 was the first time the Trolls have started a fight (that we know of), and even that came at the tail end of some 10 000+ years of everyone holding the Trolls down and kicking them.

Anyhow, Troll paladins. Yes, Trolls do have historical precedent for a group of paladins or paladin like warriors by way of the Freethinkers, who embodied "Vigilance, honor, loyalty, bravery", which likely gives them the oldest paladins on the planet.

That said, we've not really heard from the Freethinkers since the original attempted summoning of Hakkar some 9000+ years ago, so it's entirely plausible their order, if one existed, isn't kicking around anymore. Unless someone provides confirmation of their existence via twitter or whatever, we can't really use them as a basis for playable Troll paladins.
Edited by Kellick on 3/21/2013 6:04 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
03/21/2013 03:02 AMPosted by Suraia
If it is, just do the same for an Alliance race. I vote Worgen.
The problem is they are using least played races instead of most played ones. Dwarves and Trolls are the least played races respectively.

It would be dwarf instead of worgen on account of all they'd need is druids and they can make up whatever BS about getting so drunk they turned into an animal as lore.


The old rpg headcanon had Lore about Wildhammer druids. They'd likely just use that idea if they go that route.
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96 Troll Mage
12695
I love how that history tab places Budd's invasion of Zul'Aman before Zul'jin declared war on the Alliance and Horde, and people are still trying to play it off as Troll aggression.

Right, let's take a quick look at some of the more inane arguments here, before bringing things full circle to deal with Troll paladins.

The belief that the Trolls are xenophobic because they keep defending themselves from invaders is bizarre, to say the least.

Obviously, there's the fact that every single time anyone has ever attempted to approach Trolls diplomatically, it's ended in successful relationships and even friendship, which kind of singlehandedly makes the posit that they're universally xenophobic patently untrue, but let's go beyond the obvious.

Each of the wars Trolls have been engaged in have been defensive in nature. First with the Aqir who wanted to exterminate all non-insectoid life, then the expansionist Night Elves who ended up blowing up the planet, then the High Elves, Dwarves and Humans, until we get to the modern era.

In vanilla, we were fighting Zul'Farrak because they had loot we wanted. We were culling local Troll populations in Stranglethorn unrelated to the Hakkari because we wanted their stuff. Zul'Aman was invaded by treasure hunters before Zul'jin ever declared war on anyone. The Scourge invaded Zul'Drak with not one, but three necropoli, and the Argent Crusade, instead of providing support, sent us in to kill the Drakkari.

4.1 was the first time the Trolls have started a fight (that we know of), and even that came at the tail end of some 10 000+ years of everyone holding the Trolls down and kicking them.

Anyhow, Troll paladins. Yes, Trolls do have historical precedent for a group of paladins or paladin like warriors by way of the Freethinkers, who embodied "Vigilance, honor, loyalty, bravery", which likely gives them the oldest paladins on the planet.

That said, we've not really heard from the Freethinkers since the original attempted summoning of Hakkar some 9000+ years ago, so it's entirely plausible their order, if one existed, isn't kicking around anymore. Unless someone provides confirmation of their existence via twitter or whatever, we can't really use them as a basis for playable Troll paladins.


<3
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
Derailed thread is derailed...

So, if the remains of the Zandalar Tribe gets to be absorved by the Darkspear and the Horde, chances are that we get Troll Paladins the next expansion...


Not before the Alliance gets another two races (current ones hopefully) that can be paladins and at least one more shaman. Right now the Horde has (counting pandaren) 5 races, tauren, trolls, orcs, goblins and pandaren, that can be shamans, and 2 that can be paladins. Blood elves and tauren. While the Alliance has 3 races, human, dwarves and draenei, that can be paladins, and 3 shaman races. Dwarven, draenei and pandaren. If the Horde gets another paladin race, that leaves them with a noticeable class advantage over the Alliance in both paladins and shamans. The Alliance should have more paladins than the Horde. At least as many as they Horde has shaman.
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100 Human Warrior
15510
Gimme my Troll Pallys, Blizz.


Then dwarves would need to get Druids. And then another Horde race would have to get Druids too, likely blood elves.
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Well I could see Night elf paladins(moon) or Gnomes/Wogen ones. With Sunwalkers and Zandalari prelates using paladin abilities it feels like the definition of the playable paladin class has branched out a bit.

In general I like how the Trolls have all classes. Like learning magic because they lose a few wars to it by being adaptable. Whenever the next inevitable encounter with Trolls will be I hope we see more of these prelates but with additional loa abilities.
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