More PvP Focus Wanted

90 Troll Warlock
11750
I wouldn't be sad if they just removed arena entirely.
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90 Gnome Mage
3450

Though WoW was designed as a PVE game. How do I know that? It didnt launch with any PVP system whatsoever.


I'm not sure what you mean by a "PvP system," but I can tell you that people were PvPing in this game long before the Battlegrounds & honor systems were even conceived.

While I can't prove this one, I distinctly remember a high-ranking Blizzard official saying that PvP has always been a significant component of Warcraft games, & thus World of Warcraft naturally would also have a PvP component, which tells me that Blizzard tried from the beginning to make a game that had both PvP & PvE in it. I think Blizz has largely failed on doing it right, though.
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90 Human Warlock
9100
I would like to ask (respectfully) that anyone who chooses to take part in this thread not delve into the PvE vs. PvP trap. I don't think anyone is going to come to an agreement on it anytime soon. Please be respectful of the opinions and thoughts of others and don't turn this thread into a flame war. I will bring out the fire extinguisher if I have to.


Neth please read the above and take it for a fact that this is what PVE players get every single day.

Pvp'ers killing npc's, blocking questgivers, griefing, training mobs onto players, I am as easy going as there is, I try and give everyone an even chance, start them all off at 100% and expect the best, but when you get this every single day, often accompanied by screaming abuse and epithets...what am I to think otherwise?

Yeah I'm a tad peeved, can you blame me?
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100 Night Elf Priest
16660
...don't turn this thread into a flame war. I will bring out the fire extinguisher if I have to.


OMG. That sounds like some kind of ritual suicide threat. Quick, hide the snuffers.
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90 Undead Warlock
2655
I think it is amazing that some people in this thread think PvP isn't popular. Project some more why don't you.

p.s. Blizzard, fix shield slam one shotting people in lower level PvP.
Edited by Mallegoth on 3/21/2013 8:43 AM PDT
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85 Undead Warlock
4055
If they removed pvp from the game this company would lose close to half its subs. You pve nuts need to get over yourselves! You're the ones ruining the game not pvp. You whine and moan because you cant blow thru a heroic in 10 minutes so blizz has to change the dps output which messes with pvp. Look at Prot warriors. They whined about low dps so blizz gives them buffs and tada shield slam is now OP in pvp. You pve people are ruining it not pvp. Stop whiing about dps in a heroic or raid and most of the changes wouldnt hurt so much!

So sick of the booohoooo im not top dog in my guilds raid team so buff me crap!
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
12370
03/21/2013 08:37 AMPosted by Fleafly
I would like to ask (respectfully) that anyone who chooses to take part in this thread not delve into the PvE vs. PvP trap


I would like to point out (respectfully) that PvE vs PvP is precisely the problem.

I say this because the tools we need to effectively PvE can also be used equally effectively in PvP, & that's exactly where the issue of "too much CC" is coming from.

This is why people are telling you to separate the way spells & abilities work in PvP & PvE, to avoid the perception that PvE keeps getting nerfed due to PvP, & also to mitigate the issue of too much CC in PvP.

& IMO, this isn't going to happen if we simply ignore the gorilla.


I think what he meant was that PVP players have as much right to voice their ideas and constructive criticisms as anyone else, and please refrain from just telling them that "It is a PVE game so gtfo". This thread didn't start with a PVE bash, and PVP is a legitimate feature in this game, and fake percentages do not matter in the slightest.
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90 Human Warlock
9100
I dont have an issue with pvp per se, arenas, bg's, have at it and good luck. The attitude and obnoxious, abusive and offensive attitudes of pvp'ers in general is the issue.

Ravyne: when I get pvp'ers telling me "someone killed your npcs boohoo get over it" "they will be there tomorrow", when we get duel spam and screaming abuse when we say no, when pvp griefers decide to lock down quest hubs for the sheer spite of it....what am I to think?
Edited by Mirisanelle on 3/21/2013 8:46 AM PDT
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90 Gnome Mage
3450
I think what he meant was that PVP players have as much right to voice their ideas and constructive criticisms as anyone else


Of course they do; I wouldn't try to claim or even imply otherwise.
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100 Human Paladin
16290
I'm not sure what you mean by a "PvP system," but I can tell you that people were PvPing in this game long before the Battlegrounds & honor systems were even conceived.


You could flag, that was it.;, there was no reward system, no competitive ladder system, no ranking system, no gear or mechanics specifically for PVP, no areas specifically to pvp (asides from the FFA arena in Stranglethorn)

Basically no support or system for competitive pvp, all they had was the ability to turn your flag on

So no "PVP System"
Edited by Paladinchaz on 3/21/2013 8:47 AM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
12950
I dont have an issue with pvp per se, arenas, bg's, have at it and good luck. The attitude and obnoxious, abusive and offensive attitudes of pvp'ers in general is the issue.


I agree with my fellow Warlock here.
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Community Manager
03/21/2013 08:42 AMPosted by Angelatore
I would like to ask (respectfully) that anyone who chooses to take part in this thread not delve into the PvE vs. PvP trap. I don't think anyone is going to come to an agreement on it anytime soon. Please be respectful of the opinions and thoughts of others and don't turn this thread into a flame war. I will bring out the fire extinguisher if I have to.


Sadly, I think the significant undertones of this thread are rampant with the PvE v. PvP trap. I think discussing one topic--e.g., PvP fixes, changes, and balancing--cannot be done in a vacuum that ignores PvE. All attempts at credulity aside, the very fact remains that changes to how classes react in a PvP environment almost always affect how that same class will perform in a PvE environment.

I think there is only one outcome when all factors are examined: PvP and PvE simply have to be bifurcated--complete separation. This could be accomplished with the addition of a third spec.--PVP only--which transforms your talents, racials, etc. into what you (Blizzard) intend PvP to be like. Absent this, no significant progress will be made at marrying the two and letting them both be successful in their own right.


I don't mean that PvE and PvP discussion can't or shouldn't occur in the thread. My only concern is that it remain constructive and everyone refrain from making it a strict "you suck, no you suck" thread. It's a trap that just doesn't end well.

I also think that what may seem "easy" isn't always so. There are a lot of resources that get divvied up and assigned to various tasks. Weighing the value of each of those tasks and the impact of the results is an ongoing and thoughtful process. We do our best to minimize the impact of this, but there are only so many things we can work on at a time.

I may sound a bit like a broken record, but there's another issue that I often see in regard to PvPers in World of Warcraft. Not all PvPers want the same things or have the same goals when they step foot into the "arena" so to speak. Some are in it for the gear. Some for the thrill of beating the other team. Some on a more individual level of proving they're more skilled at their class than the other guy/gal. Some see it as a challenge and will "overcome" or adapt to any changes thrown at them. Others are less easily adaptable. But, in the end it's all dependent on those goals they set for themselves. Their experiences are individual affairs. We do our best on our end to allow those things to all happen, but unless everyone can agree on what exactly they want out of their PvP encounters, any changes or development done is not going to make everyone happy.

I also see people bring up Crowd Control mechanisms in PvP quite often. This is another one that goes back and forth. For teams, groups, etc. that are well-coordinated, they overcome these mechanisms by pooling their abilities together to counter. For those less-organized, it's more of an issue. If you're "solo" in a battleground and have no counter abilities or someone gets the jump on you, it's a much bigger issue to you. I'm not trying to muddle the discussion, but just bringing up some additional insights from where I sit. Agree or disagree as you like, but I just ask that you keep things constructive.
Edited by Nethaera on 3/21/2013 8:58 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10295
You're lucky you have pvp in a pve game. I'm sick of them screwing with pve to accommodate pvp balance issues.
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90 Gnome Mage
3450
play styles from pet battles and questing to 25 man heroics, but refuses to put much effort into the pvp side of the game. Then when people quit pvp out of frustration, blizz uses this as evidence that pvp isn't popular enough to worry about. Seems like their pvp 'solution' was to make rbgs award the most points then call it a day. Have to go work on pet battles instead of implementing conquest catchup mechanics.

What does it take to get some attention? Why can't we get some bug fixes, new non fail maps, maybe a few new features, and some actual balance instead of more endless dailies that nobody even likes.


To all the PvE players: allow me to point out that the OP's concerns are entirely valid, & that nothing about this particular issue is going to be resolved by arguing about the "attitudes" of PvP players towards PvE players.

The OP is talking about strictly PvP mechanics. My comments regarding the PvE/PvP mix are in that vein, because I'm speaking specifically of the fact that tools we PvE players need are over-powered in PvP & are helping to kill the PvP experience, but nerfing those tools in order to help the PvP experience hurts the PvE experience.

I think we'd all be best off if we stick to the mechanics side of the issue, & leave the social side -- about which Blizz can do little-to-nothing -- out of the discussion. If that's what the CM meant by "avoid the PvE/PvP trap" then I agree.
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90 Human Priest
8850
What is it? a 60/40 pve to pvp? How can anyone say that 40% is a mini game.. or not really part of the game??

Get real people.


Inflated and biased numbers. You made those up on the spot and now I am questioning your intelligence.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10180
I love how everyone complains with 'Oh I'm sick of being nerfed over pvp'. Learn to adapt. Pvp, is, regardless of what you might think, a fairly large part of this game.


The same could be said of you, I here a lot more PVP players crying about CC's and other abilities designed to be more effective in PVE play. Maybe the PVPers should try to do a bit more adapting and a lot less whining. PVE warriors have a legit complaint about being nerfed because of PVP, their execute was nerfed hard to even out PVP play. While I agree that PVP is a large part of this game, it was designed as a PVE game initially, PVP was an afterthought, so maybe its the PVPers who need to adapt to the current abilities rather than having huge nerfs to classes effecting the PVE play styles and abilities.
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