Defending the Monk class....

90 Undead Warlock
9940
Not every class has a counter. Warlocks just have to stand around until RoP is over. Can't teleport or you take a silence, can't demonic leap or you take a silence, only real trick we have is pet stun to get 2 seconds to move away, but of course with monk's speed and mobility that doesn't help much.
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Not every class has a counter. Warlocks just have to stand around until RoP is over. Can't teleport or you take a silence, can't demonic leap or you take a silence, only real trick we have is pet stun to get 2 seconds to move away, but of course with monk's speed and mobility that doesn't help much.

I will admit that locks and warriors have the most trouble with monks. That's for sure.

Wouldn't teleporting and taking a silence be better than just sitting in RoP? Monks 'defensives' are based on mobility and LoS (aka we have to run away for 5-10 seconds while not DPSing). That completely removes us from the DPS equation. Taking a 3 second silence to LoS and give yourself some space I think is more than justified.

If it's the fact you can no longer DPS while in the ring - that's the whole point as it's a defensive.
Edited by Adornafist on 3/21/2013 11:10 AM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
0
Should disarm and silence the monk using it as well.

Honestly I don''t find it that bad, but a 45 second cooldown on it is ridiculous. Should be 2 minutes at least.
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100 Orc Hunter
11425
The karma dot can be dispelled but not the actual buff that protects the monk.
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90 Human Warlock
8930
Every class has ways around RoP to continue doing damage. I'd say Warriors are the only real class that really struggles with it. All you have to do is move out (almost all classes should already have a slow or stun on kill target anyways). Rogues can LOL-ST (not to mention poisions keep ticking). Ferals have their bleeds ticking plus Moonfire (I know this requires to swap forms but you do it all the time anyways). Enhancement has shocks and totems that can be used. Other WW monks can CJL and SFB if they have chi. Blood DKs still have diseases ticking not to mention can apply a lot of damage from 10 yards (outside of RoP).

Like I've said in other threads - RoP to me, when playing against it, is only a minor inconvenience. I hop out and SFB and CJL.

Remember, we have two stuns - Fists of Fury (requires 3 chi and we often get screwed on position and it doesn't actually work) and Leg Sweep. Leg Sweep is sacrificed for RoP. The only other CC we have is Paralysis - which breaks by blowing on it. This is only really beneficial against 30% of arena specs (the others are casters, healers and hunters). And, any of those ranged specs usually have good ways of peeling when this is out.


Dks say hi

Edit: Might as well throw my 2c in. I think the skill is fine, but it is the 45 sec cd that I have the biggest problem with. Throw a 2-3 min cd on it. Have it silence while in the radius not just silence on offensive spells. Throw a couple more buff towards WW monks in general.
Edited by Boozt on 3/21/2013 11:35 AM PDT
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Yeah, not sure why I wrote Blood DK. That was weird - gotta stop multi-tasking.

Also read down.
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90 Undead Warlock
9940
03/21/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Adornafist
Wouldn't teleporting and taking a silence be better than just sitting in RoP?


Yes in an arena setting where you can LoS and usually have portal down at all times you would take the silence and get away, however in BG and RBGs you don't always keep portals down and LoS is much harder to achieve.
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Wouldn't teleporting and taking a silence be better than just sitting in RoP?


Yes in an arena setting where you can LoS and usually have portal down at all times you would take the silence and get away, however in BG and RBGs you don't always keep portals down and LoS is much harder to achieve.

Yeah - so the spell is actually helping to kill in RBGs. I wouldn't say that's a bad thing (not to mention you have healers and teammates to CC). And as much as I don't want to say this - warlocks have so much viability in other aspects of RBGs that a pesky RoP pales in comparison.

I just feel like EVERYONE complains because it has an application. For casters to complain they may get silenced for 3 seconds - it almost seems like you're complaining just to complain (im not saying you in particular loktopus) rather than looking at the big picture that there are a lot of ways to counter if you have any bit of team coordination.
Edited by Adornafist on 3/21/2013 11:42 AM PDT
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1 Troll Shaman
0
1. Have you EVER tried to do that with a WW monk on you. Their mobility is insane though I'm sure you'll say it isn't
WW mobility is overrated. Granted if they play with a Hpally it is king. Their freedom doesn't provide immunity to slows/roots, and their roll/FSK can be stopped by applying a root effect therefor destroying all their mobility.

You don't play MW, You don't play WW... You play a mage, so all you can really do is come up with opinions man, And "Not going in to detail" just proves how little you actually know.
You don't have to play a class to understand things about it, you can point your finger at the mage for a variety of reasons. Reasons that wouldn't require you to even play a mage to begin with.

So hes completely entitled to say things he may know something about.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
11115
Blinding Light says Hi, and that all defensive aoe CDs should be 1.8 sec cast and 2 min CD
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1 Troll Shaman
0
Blinding Light says Hi, and that all defensive aoe CDs should be 1.8 sec cast and 2 min CD
Blinding Light is an AoE CC that was instantly casted.

RoP is a defensive CD, they're not the same.
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Blinding Light says Hi, and that all defensive aoe CDs should be 1.8 sec cast and 2 min CD

You mean the one that's baseline and not a talent? You also realize that Blinding Light is far from just defensive, right?

My main was a Holy Pally until 5.2 - you can't compare Blinding Light (a smaller part of the toolkit) to RoP (tier 60 is essentially the cornerstone of the toolkit).
Edited by Adornafist on 3/21/2013 12:32 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
3280
It is super strong against warriors and is definitely the most annoying move in the game to me. I don't think monks are OP though.
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100 Draenei Shaman
4975
Give RoP a longer CD and it is fine.
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Give RoP a longer CD and it is fine.

What would you suggest? And would it be worth taking over Leg Sweep?

I'm guessing 99.9% of people who give the 'longer CD' response couldn't give two craps about whether or not the talent is balanced - they just want the CD extended so no monk takes it and thus they don't have to deal with it. For practical purposes removed from the game - without actually saying it like that.
Edited by Adornafist on 3/21/2013 1:38 PM PDT
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I can definitely see where you're coming from. And on paper, I'd definitely agree with you.

In practice though, I still think it's being overstated how much impact RoP has on a match. I have not heard any glad saying, "I ran into this team with a monk, and because of RoP it was impossible to beat them," nor do I think I will if things aren't changed.

RoP keeps monks in the game after the opener. With generally zero control on the opener (unless with a rogue), and zero burst at the start, we need ALL we can for our team to live past the first 60 second of combat. I can't begin to describe how frustrating it can be off the start when you play KFC or Thug Cleave and they CC you/healer and absolutely demolish another DPS. It's our saving grace honestly.
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90 Undead Monk
5205
I read posts all day which healers are the worst in arenas.. Most can agree MW, I don't play or read to much about WW but I don't see alot of great things about them at all. However, I see a bunch of babies saying that ROP is overpowered. If its overpowered how is MW so underwhelming in arenas? We basically get a bad version of a pally bubble, (prevents damage) because it doesn't stop ranged damage. ROP is a good spell and a good idea for a spell. Walk out of the ring.... LOL
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90 Undead Priest
6665
03/21/2013 09:20 AMPosted by Adornafist
Where did anyone go out !@#$%ing say WW are horrible?

03/21/2013 08:28 AMPosted by Badsurgeon
and how "Monks are fine"


The way I understood it, the OP was attempting to present two claims here.

1. RoP is balanced.

2. WW Monks (or Monks in general) need more buffs.

It's also worth nothing that you probably don't want to be agreeing with the OP for a few reasons.

1. He complains about bias, and then, well, I don't even have to finish this one.

2. He's insulting all of his readers in the first 5 seconds of reading.

3. He doesn't make valid points (one of his points is a Swifty burst video).

4. He's not very intelligent.

With all that garbage out of the way, Ring of Peace is an incredibly annoying tool to deal with. It's far too strong for a 45 second cooldown. Yes it has counters, but it also has a guaranteed efficiency when used correctly that shuts down 2-5 minute cooldowns with a single press of a button. This is completely fine, but on not a 45 second cooldown. I'd like it to see a raise to 1-1.5 minutes along with DR on the disarm portion.

The worst part about this ability for Monks that want more buffs is that it's going to prevent any worthwhile buffs coming their way. People want the ability nerfed because it's too powerful, not because Monks are too powerful.

This is the only reason that Monks are viable at high rating. And it will be the reason they'll receive no buffs until it's fixed.

Is it a huge problem? Not for me, but if you hope to have any chance for buffs, you're going to have give up this specific rendition of the ability.
Edited by Conslol on 3/21/2013 3:57 PM PDT
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