thoughts on rewards for 2200

100 Blood Elf Paladin
9355
At first I just thought Wyndoor was an elitist, but it seems like he's actually stupid as well. Anyway...

Two wrongs make a right? I am just as disgusted with rBGs as i am this joke of a change.


It's obvious that RBG's aren't going anywhere. That means people need to find the best system for the current incarnation of PvP. Old setups won't work. And the fact still remains: awards that give a competitive advantage undermine competition, which undermines PvP entirely.

People with T2 aren't keeping these 1500 rated scrubs from getting a higher rating. The only time i will remotely buy this nonsense is if someone has a highest rating of 2150-2199 then you could say ohh i keep running into T2 people lower than that though i dont think so, the thing holding you back is how bad you are :)


Clearly you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying people equal in skill to a ~1500 arena player are awarded T2 for having an RBG gimmick in their spec. So yes, in many cases, the weapon can be a barrier for players, even in lower brackets. By the way, the insults just make you look like more of an idiot. If you had a good point, you wouldn't need them to get it across. (And yes, I'm aware I opened this post with an insult in response to yours. I'm guilty of stooping to your level.)

I could make a list all day it will get nothing done.


So, your intention is to complain, but offer no constructive ideas? This comes to mind: http://i.imgur.com/kFPyV.jpg

The people complaining aren't being affected by T2 is my point. You have these people complaining that T2 is holding them back. Do you honestly think T2 is keeping these people down that can't break 1600?


In some games, sure the weapons might hold them back. This change, positively affects gameplay in terms of competition. Its only negative effect is on the egos of kids like you. Not something most people are concerned about.

People are rewarded for being the best at work. Let's say you work in some sort of sales company and you happen to sale the most out of everyone. Would you be happy if your reward was a t-shirt instead of an actual money bonus lol?


Another bad analogy. I'm saying the reward winner isn't the only person who should determine the reward. If I outsell everyone, I should get all of the companies cash reserves? It's what I think I should get, so I should get it, right?

Yes everyone has opinions and i am not the only person pissed off about these dumb changes.


Most of the people I've seen offer opinions about this aren't bothered by the change. Many of them think there needs to be a new reward system in place, but not one with a competitive advantage. Only players I really see fired up are people who float near 2200 on a regular basis.

Next post incoming....
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9355
When they provide a screenshot of them losing by 5% health i will consider it to be T2 causing the problem, until then its nothing but cry babies wanting a hand out and something to blame their fail skills on.


Of all the arena games ever played, you struggle to believe that there have been enough close games to show that stats can make a difference? No one owes you a screenshot just because you spout off your conjecture as fact.

Of course they do lol, some things are very expensive because the rich people can afford it. This directly prevents other people from buying it until they are rich themselves. This is understood if you want the best you work and earn it. Yes this is a game but it should still reward the best and not just be handing out BMWs to everyone that has a cavalier just because they whine enough.


Obviously you didn't understand again. Your salary and ability to purchase expensive items has absolutely no affect on my ability to do so. Standing in the arena queue with better gear, however, does have an effect on me. Your analogy is bad.

Ohh i agree the point system is fine, what i said was just to demonstrate my point. These people will never be happy and it will never be enough. Since they don't have T2 to complain about it will be that the higher rated person is a few pieces ahead of them and they will want that solved for them as well.


If Blizzard caved to a request like that, it would surely be a bad thing, and I think they'd see an overwhelming response in player feedback against it. I don't think they're seeing that with this change.

I have said why i dont agree with this. It would be like if i went to medical school for years, became a doctor and then they told me im not allowed to buy anything nice that im stuck with the same stuff as the people who didn't goto college and are flipping burgers.

It is common practice in life that better people are rewarded with better things. It is that simple and its how everything is ran. You don't see people IRL crying that the guy in the Porsche passed their civic on the highway and they couldn't keep up that they deserve a porsche for free too. It is common sense and people understand this. They feel that since this is a game they pay monthly for that they are entitled to everything with 0 effort and thats why this game has gone down the toilet and continues to lose customers.


I've pointed out more than once why that analogy is bad. If you don't get it, I can't help you.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9355
xmog gear like the challenge mode gear?


Yeah, this would probably be a good solution, at least for the rest of this expansion. Like I said in my previous post to Whydoor, I only promote the idea of unlocking old elite sets because I doubt we'd get the resource time from Blizzard to give us our own cosmetic set.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot I had to chop up my last post because it got too long. That point I was making is now in my next post haha.
Edited by Scirøn on 3/21/2013 1:24 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9355
Ohh so you have liked the arena set every season and find simply getting transmog crap to be s suitable reward for being the best?


Actually, I've only like the Cataclysmic elite Paladin gear enough to care about a reward like this. I just think it's something that a lot of players would enjoy. You'd still have to earn 2200 like you did before, and it's still only cosmetic. Like I said, there would need to be additional limitations to make sure achievements earned in past seasons are made trivial, but there might be a good idea in there somewhere.

For the record, a new set similar to challenge modes might be better, but I don't hold hope for that much development time for cosmetic PvP rewards.

Highest 5 man personal rating 1,500
Highest 3 man personal rating 1,713
Highest 2 man personal rating 1,677

Ohh of course who would of guessed someone who's too bad to ever receive the reward thinking its fine to make the reward useless. What your doing is comparable to saying what a doctor should be paid while your working drive thru at wendys.


Rely less on ad hominem, and more on making a better point. Again, the analogy is crap, because that doctor's salary doesn't prevent me from quitting Wendy's and going back to school.
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90 Undead Warrior
18120
ITT: Typical basement elitist thinks he's better than everybody else for being good at a video game.

Keep locking the only rewards and behind an absurdly high barrier for the general player and participation will just keep dying until there's nothing left.
And as much as the typical actual snowflake will hate to admit it; It's that general populace that makes the game even playable for you.

The reason RBG's are so popular comes down to two simple reasons;

1: They're cross-realm.

For a lot of players it's the only form of rated PvP they can play because of this alone.
I just transferred to Mal'ganis from a realm that had /one/ 2200 team last season in 3's - Which was pushed at the start of the season and disbanded as they only wanted their T2.
That alone meant my only outlet to play was to hop over to Darkspear, KT and Tich to find RBG pugs all season.

2: You feel like you're making progress
Arenas? You get jack squat until you've hit T2; Which is now removed and replaced with an enchant.
Every milestone you make gets you something; Wether it be a title, participation reward or the "Gladiator" style title with Hero - Which got botched from the cheating that is also rampant in arenas.
MMO's are designed around progressing your character and the feeling you get as you evolve. Arena doesn't give that unless you get Gladiator.

That is why it's dying.
Not to mention MMORPG's weren't designed for ladder play so % based rewards were a bad idea from the start. It's fine for stuff like MoBA's and balanced fighter's but not MMO.

If participation is just as bad or worse this season in 2.2+ ratings expect to see the reward system revamped to that of the RBG system just so people actually start playing again.
I'd be willing to put money on this.

MMO's = Carrot on a Stick
They've removed the carrot and have already talked about the "changes" coming in the near future for the arena system.
It's so blatantly obvious what has been working and what they'll most likely be stepping towards to get people playing again.

inb4 somebody points out I have no arena achievements;
Playing at 1800 MMR (Mid-Range) and was as I stated earlier; Restricted in S11 and S12 due to server choice. Waiting on my partners here to have more time after the dragonslaying race before I can play seriously.
Complain all you want; It'll only prove more so why less and less people are playing because not only are we having the issues I stated above - The community is garbage as well.
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90 Undead Death Knight
11590
The idea of a tabard is a really good idea, but sadly people have already put in posts similar to this one, and the tabards etc have never been implemented.

I think the 2200 enchant should not override 2 hand weapon enchants. It should either be toned down or be considered an item upgrade for 2h weapons. Casters have offhand weapons=they gain the stats from 2200 enchant.
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100 Human Paladin
15360
Yea, the enchants were poorly done. But for rewards I'd do.

1500 - Challenger Title
1700 - Rival Title
1900 - Non-combat Pet
2000 - Duelist Title
2100 - Arena Team Flag of Ownership (Unlocks and costs 2000 honor for every 10 Flags)
2200 - Cosmetic Enchant
2300 - Tabard
2400 - New Ground Class Specific Mount

Rank 1 Title, Gladiator Title and Flying Mount rewarded at the end of the season.

Make new RBG mounts too! There's 5 new Dino mounts, couple raptors and some new proto drake thing and I'm still rocking my Vicious War Wolf and Black War Ram? >:|
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Realistically speaking, people should be rewarded for being better at something. The only people that disagree with this are the lazy fails who can't earn it themselves. I suppose a doctor that spent 8 years in college should earn the same as someone who went straight to mcdonalds because it's not fair for someone who put more work into something to get more out of it?


Your analogy is not relevent. This is better compared to a "sport" than career salary.

A better one would be: "Timothy Bradley won the WBO welterweight title so as a reward he deserves to be able to use steroids."

Whoops. Doesn't work that way. See how that's unfair for competition? I don't give a !@#$ what you earned or think you deserve, we all complain so much about imbalance yet some of us can't seem to grasp that gear is an imbalance as well. If you're so good at this game already why do you deserve to be even better with an advantage others dont have the time to obtain or simply can't?
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90 Human Hunter
13580
They should of made the normal and elite gear color the same, but offering the recolored (old 2200 gear) at 2200 rating.

2300 or 2400 should be a tabard (Arena tabards are the best looking in game).
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90 Troll Shaman
7330
as someone who has earned t2 every season since season 9, i think T2 became unfair when so many undeserving people got them from rbg shenanigans ontop of actual stats of the weapon being such a huge gap from T1 to T2. In Cata, while T2 was obviously better, there wasnt such a big gap in damage from T1 to T2.

Personally when i was new to this game, it was really fun when you achieved higher ratings and were rewarded with an array of better gear. It made players want to get better to get the gear. The problem in todays game is that the rewards are too powerful. For instance last season the gap between T1 and T2 weapons was too big.

Unfortunately, gear outweighs performance. Someone with full gear can press a couple buttons and deal insane damage with out any thought. While a less geared but more skilled player just doesnt have that capability.
Edited by Statichavoc on 3/21/2013 3:50 PM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
10845
Why this windoor guy so mad

I don't even see what triggered it
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90 Troll Shaman
7330
Also i just want to add, the new change to elite pvp gear is silly. Its not elite when everyone has access to it simply by playing the season long enough.

People need to be rewarded for getting better, not from longevity. Nobody feels accomplished when they are given things.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
6545
To those who are concerned/excited about this gap in equipment, I have one solution: go play a game that gives players an even footing, and where gear doesn't determine a win/lose for you. Some good examples are, the Call of Duty game, Battlefield games, DOTA game, RTS games, etc.

There are many games out there that have no equipment gap issues in PvP, which leads to some players whom are just better than others, and this will show. So, stop complaining Nancy--and if you really love PvP--go play a game more designed around it.
Edited by Darican on 3/21/2013 4:08 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
6190
I'd love to see a Hall of Champions type thing set up, lined with portraits of said achieving players, and small lore object giving a small description of said player's character. Hard to call whether or not it should be realm or battlegroup specific, but, it'd be really cool to see yourself immortalized (at least for one season). Maybe have a tablet or book or scroll, something like that naming heroes of the past.
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90 Undead Warrior
18120

People need to be rewarded for getting better, not from longevity. Nobody feels accomplished when they are given things.


This.

While I feel there should be rewards for the players who put time in as well;
We need rewards for the top players.

This is not the way to go about doing it.

I'd love to see a Hall of Champions type thing set up, lined with portraits of said achieving players, and small lore object giving a small description of said player's character. Hard to call whether or not it should be realm or battlegroup specific, but, it'd be really cool to see yourself immortalized (at least for one season). Maybe have a tablet or book or scroll, something like that naming heroes of the past.


I'd love to see some sort of "visual ladder" that lets the realm's top players be known somehow in game;
R1 gets their name on a plaque or something.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9355
To those who are concerned/excited about this gap in equipment, I have one solution: go play a game that gives players an even footing, and where gear doesn't determine a win/lose for you. Some good examples are, the Call of Duty game, Battlefield games, DOTA game, RTS games, etc.

There are many games out there that have no equipment gap issues in PvP, which leads to some players whom are just better than others, and this will show. So, stop complaining Nancy--and if you really love PvP--go play a game more designed around it.


That's a really good idea. Then they could just delete the forums. If everyone who wanted to offer feedback for an ever-changing game with an ever-changing player base just quit, these forums would have no purpose. Then we wouldn't have to read all this crap.

Nice.
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100 Human Mage
14165
Too funny watching you guys spout off nonsense to try to justify why you should receive something without earning it. I read about the first paragraph of your chain and stopped because of how comical it is. The % of people who get T2 from rGBs that can't get it in arena is a small enough number that it's not holding anyone back in arena. I have lvled a character and geared it in honor gear at my leisure then hit 2200 in 1 night. Did i run into T2 people on my way to 2200 of course but i am not awful like you guys and it wasn't a problem.

Also i just want to add, the new change to elite pvp gear is silly. Its not elite when everyone has access to it simply by playing the season long enough.

People need to be rewarded for getting better, not from longevity. Nobody feels accomplished when they are given things.

Exactly i feel the same way, when i wasn't 2200 i practiced and got it. These people don't want to put work into it they want to just cry on the forums and get handed it.

To those who are concerned/excited about this gap in equipment, I have one solution: go play a game that gives players an even footing, and where gear doesn't determine a win/lose for you. Some good examples are, the Call of Duty game, Battlefield games, DOTA game, RTS games, etc.

There are many games out there that have no equipment gap issues in PvP, which leads to some players whom are just better than others, and this will show. So, stop complaining Nancy--and if you really love PvP--go play a game more designed around it.

Yes skill shows through regardless so why does our reward need to be taken away just so some crap players can feel special using something they never could earn? The fails who can't get T2 on their own will still lose to the people who can earn it so what does this exactly fix aside from taking away one of the longest used excuses as to why garbage players can't get a high rating.

Giving them this gear solves nothing. It keeps some cry babies from throwing a fit that someone had something better than them and that is all. You could hand all of these 1600 players legendaries and they still wont beat a player who can actually get 2200+ in arena.

What should be done is blizzard doing a better job to balance classes and not handing undeserving people the best items in the game just to shut them up. You cry babies might be happy now but when you still get smashed what will your excuse be then? Surely it wont be that your just awful and the person is much better which happens to be the case before T2 was handed to you as well.
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100 Human Mage
14165
03/21/2013 04:35 PMPosted by Lobster
(Arena tabards are the best looking in game).

^

I don't know why they discontinued the idea after WotLK.

Why put effort into making tabards or even good looking arena sets for that matter. All it takes to appease the masses is remove rating requirements and had gear to them that they don't deserve/can't earn themselves :)
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
I'll never understand why good players are so against this. Do you honestly hate the idea of people having gear equal to yours? Why do you even do rated pvp if all you want to do is smash baddies that you out-gear?

I still want to get 2200 this season even though it won't really give me much of an advantage. I want to get better and 2200 still represents a milestone for me in that effort.

Maybe I'm just a weirdo, though.
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