Frost DK gear audits

91 Tauren Death Knight
War
3740
I would greatly appreciate any advice you could give me. :)
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
16750
@Kyrnanaya
lets start with enchants. You're missing them on your cape, bracers, and legs. Since you don't have issues reaching the hit cap it's best for you to gem it for crit. You're bracers should be enchanted for Exceptional Strength. If you can't afford that then Mastery can be a temporary substitute. Your legs should have angerhide armor on them.

Your enchanting is a bit messy. You won't be able to completely get out being over the hit cap but you've done your best. Here's a link to reforging in your current stat values on a light movement fight around 5 minutes long.

http://wowreforge.com/US/Nesingwary/Kyrnanaya?template=Hit=2550,Exp=2550,Exp:0.63,Hit:0.52,Haste:0.38,Crit:0.32,Mastery:0.47&reforge=42--4545423505630245324535254542--


The other thing you can do is replace your str/hit gems with str/stam but it really doesn't matter that much and it will probably change as you gear up.


@Básridire
you have the basics down. Gems look solid with your current hit/exp levels although I'd personally ignore the socket bonus on your belt. There's a chance that with proper reforging it could actually be a small dps increase but I don't see it as likely. Replace it with a pure haste gem.

You're currently too far under the hit/exp caps for it to be a dps gain and it will probably affect your performance. Getting close to the caps would be advised.

Your ideal reforging looks like this
http://wowreforge.com/US/Illidan/B%C3%A1sridire?template=Hit=2550,Exp=2550,Exp:0.6,Hit:0.6,Haste:0.5,Crit:0.37,Mastery:0.28&reforge=5354024243232423535402------53----

Other than that your glyphs and talents look solid. Nice work
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
12415
You're absolutely right. Haste eventually will be less valuable than strength as you gear up though I'm not certain if there's a hard break point. I honestly haven't done the math to find it although I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult The following few paragraphs are a tidbit on why though the specifics might seen complicated.

Frost DPS is all about maximizing your KM procs and while haste helps you get more, it doesn't help if you can't fit your GCDs in between your weapon speed. Most of the players that rank on World of Logs use a haste value of around 77-78% which would give them a swing speed of 2.1 using a standard 2H weapon with a Swing speed of 3.6 secs before haste. 2.1 seconds means you can use precisely two abilities before your next KM proc and so you can often make the decision of whether or not to frost strike or obliterate.

This is the optimal build if you're serious about your class and use a swing timer addon to hit your abilities at the exact moment necessary to squeak out KM procs. If you do this your ratio of Hits to crits is going to be somewhere around 1.5 hits per 1 crit on your obliterate. Hardcore raiders try and do this but it's important to realize that any mistakes will be extremely punishing

That being said, if you're not a hardcore raider pushing heroics, then it's mostly advised to gem / gear towards a high haste build. Even if you spend a KM proc on a frost strike here and there you'll still be able to beat other classes in a raid group, but just don't expect to be topping the international charts (this does not mean you're a bad player.)


@Pwnjuice
Can I ask you explain this numerically/statistically? I created a threat to explore this topic, but perhaps misnamed it ("Frost Haste Breakpoints?"). I understand your analogous explanation but would love to see some strong numbers on this. Speaking from experience, I have attempted to gem straight haste but felt more rune starved after doing so rather than using my split str/haste gem approach. Is what you're saying that the "soft cap" here is a relativistic cap in that human reaction times literally cannot maximize a play-style with a higher haste value?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11830
Hey, I started gearing up for frost a few days ago. Ive been blood before, so I know a lot of my pieces are tanking pieces, im still trying to replace them. Other than that how are my forges/gems and enchants?
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
16750
@Doxan I'm not sure if I can explain it using pure numbers but I'll try and clarify what I wrote.
Keep in mind that this is mostly for the elite skilled players because messing up the rotation can be extremely punishing and result in greatly reduced dps.

2Handed frost is centered around getting the most out of your obliterates. Ideally you'll end up with a ratio of 1 crit per hit if you manage them correctly.

Most 2H weapons have a swing speed of 1 attack every 3.6 seconds. With a haste value of about 75-77% or so (I'm uncertain of the exact breakpoint) your weapon will have a speed of 1 attack every 2.1 seconds.

Seeing as how KM procs on weapon hits, what you want to be doing is hitting it exactly as your weapon hits so you don't accidentally waste a KM proc on a frost strike because of server lag.

With a GCD of 1 second, this means that if you were spamming your keyboard you'd be getting in two attacks in the time it takes you to auto-attack, which means that you're effectively able to alternate on Frost strikes and Obliterates and maximize the number of obliterate procs.

I'll use Jin'kroh as an example because it requires little movement for the most part. Driox - Blackmoore [EU] is one of the top ranked players in the world for this fight.

Link to the parse:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9qadji4bur9llaqy/details/7/?s=185&e=366

Link to his armory:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackmoore/Driox/simple


There's a few things to notice here, the first is his amount of hits to crits on his obliterate. Through successful proc management he's managed to get more crits than hits which indicates near flawless performance. Notice on his armory that his haste is at 76% which gives him a swing speed of just over 2 seconds.

On longer fights such as Iron Qon you have players like http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostwhisper/Qrmas/simple who hold top rankings as well. Notice a trend? Here's the log from the parse to observe -

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-90nr7pnul4ftz4zb/details/3/?s=7508&e=8094

You can look at the best players in the world that play 2H frost and I'm willing to bet that they'll all follow this trend. It's not so much as the human capability to play the class as it is managing your GCDs and autoattacks effectively. This was probably just some really long ramble and I'm not sure if it really helps :( I tried though.
Edited by Pwnjuice on 4/2/2013 8:36 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
16750
@Imbalance I think your name is perfect for this situation. It's hard to help with reforging and such when half of your pieces have useless dps stats on them. I'll give my input on enchants and gems though.

In regards to enchants, You'll want to swap out the one on your mainhand weapon to Rune of Razorice as the Fallen Crusader rune doesn't stack. Razorice will give you a noticeable dps increase. I realize you have PvP shoulders but when you get them swapped out put str/crit enchant on them. Instead of enchanting your gloves for mastery as you would for tanking you'll need to swap them to str enchants. Your legs could use a chant too.

With gemming, it's difficult to say in your current gear. The general accepted standard is to fill Red sockets with 160 str gems, Yellow sockets with 160 Mastery/ 80 str gems, and Blue sockets with 160 hit / 80 str gems. It's worth noting that you've put an expertise gem on your chest which is sub-optimal. When you find a full set you'll likely be trying to reforge out of as much as you can.

Try and gear yourself up and I'll help you with what I can in regards to a few of the finer points
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
13535
Not going to pass up an opportunity to get audited, particularly with regard to my gear. I've gotten my hit and expertise as low as I can for the time being, I feel, while maximizing haste. Couple things I'm aware of, but am still debating what to do about:

- I'm not terribly fond of Runic Empowerment (not particularly sure why, I think I grew to like Runic Corruption on Unholy in Cata and just gravitated toward it in Mists). I could potentially use Blood Tap, since my understanding is it is better than both of the other two options, but shifting over to it will require a great deal of practice and a bit of a rework of my UI (to appropriately keep track of it), both of which I haven't had time to deal with yet, and switching to BT during progression without those two requirements seems like a good way to screw up my damage.

- I'm getting nothing out of the 60 hit socket bonus in my boots, so I'm considering switching it to a 160 Str gem, but I'm uncertain whether 80 str > 160 haste. Even if the haste were better in theory, my concern is that with all the cleaving I'm doing lately on Horridon, Council, and Tortos, the Str quite possibly pulls ahead in practice. Basically a similar reason why I haven't attempted regemming to pure Haste, I am not convinced it works as well outside of sims.

Beyond that, feel free to poke holes in everything I've done, I'd appreciate any feedback you have to offer.
Edited by Notdaos on 3/30/2013 2:34 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
12415
@Pwnjuice
That makes a lot of sense, and while combing through the logs I noticed several things that I can use to improve my gameplay (although switch to actual keybinds would probably be the first step... >.>). Thanks for the insight!

After reading these gear audits I will be tweaking my own gear today, but any help you could provide there today would be appreciated.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11830
@Imbalance I think your name is perfect for this situation. It's hard to help with reforging and such when half of your pieces have useless dps stats on them. I'll give my input on enchants and gems though.

In regards to enchants, You'll want to swap out the one on your mainhand weapon to Rune of Razorice as the Fallen Crusader rune doesn't stack. Razorice will give you a noticeable dps increase. I realize you have PvP shoulders but when you get them swapped out put str/crit enchant on them. Instead of enchanting your gloves for mastery as you would for tanking you'll need to swap them to str enchants. Your legs could use a chant too.

With gemming, it's difficult to say in your current gear. The general accepted standard is to fill Red sockets with 160 str gems, Yellow sockets with 160 Mastery/ 80 str gems, and Blue sockets with 160 hit / 80 str gems. It's worth noting that you've put an expertise gem on your chest which is sub-optimal. When you find a full set you'll likely be trying to reforge out of as much as you can.

Try and gear yourself up and I'll help you with what I can in regards to a few of the finer points


Actually Pwnjuice I have another thread as well in regards to the 522 VP trinket, I posted it in another thread but didnt really get a reliable answer.


I like it, just got it today. ICD is looooooooooong though. I actually had a question about it, since pillar and the trinket proc obviously dont stack up (75s icd) would it be better to use them seperately, or always wait for the 15 seconds to use pillar of frost since its a lot of strength? I mean you do eventually lose out on1 or maybe even 2 pillar uses.. Is it worth it to wait?


(Thanks for the audit btw)
Edited by Imbalance on 3/30/2013 12:15 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
7845
Would like an audit...
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
0
I could probably use a bit of help.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
16750
Wow quite a bit of things to get to. I don't have time at the moment to go through all of them but I promise I'll get to all of you in time. Just a busy day today.

@Notdaos
In regards to the T5 talent choices most people would pick Runic Empowerment but the difference between the 3 playstyles is only around 2-3k. While RE is the accepted standard, you'll probably do best with whatever one you're most comfortable with. I've run a sim of your gear and your haste scales out to .53 per 1 strength. This means that 160 haste is actually more beneficial than 80 str but only by a slim margin. Personally I'd use that to go for a haste oriented build which would mean swapping out your str gems for haste. It's going to be more effective until you get about 75% or so at which point you can make the decision on whether or not to keep gemming for it.

Your enchants all look good. I'd alter your reforging just slightly though.
http://wowreforge.com/US/Cenarius/Notdaos?template=Hit=2550,Exp=2550,Exp:0.67,Hit:0.61,Haste:0.53,Crit:0.44,Mastery:0.29&reforge=43024252434343524242--20--2353----


@Doxan
HOLY EXPERTISE! That's tough luck with the gear. There isn't anything you can really do about it except hope you can drop some in the future. Your haste seems a little low for your potential and you could swap around your gems to be more haste oriented. I gave you that little ramble earlier so I'll leave it up to you.

If you swap out the hit enchant on your cloak for crit you can actually get to the hit cap exactly. Here's a link to your optimal reforging with that change.
http://wowreforge.com/US/Bladefist/Doxan?template=Hit=2550+,Exp=2210+,Exp:0.13,Hit:0.43,Haste:0.51,Crit:0.43,Mastery:0.31&reforge=----405323202423234024----2353----


@Holidae
This is a very impressive armory. Two things you'll want to note is that you've enchanted your cape for hit but you also reforge out of it. Drop the hit enchant for crit and unreforge your ring to lower your hit by 12 points and gain a lot of crit. The other thing is you chose Strangulate as your T5 talent choice. Unless this purely situational you're probably best taking Death's Advance in general. Most bosses can't be stunned/silenced and you should never underestimate the value of movement speed increases. Especially when they're on a 30 second CD.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
16750
@Banished I feel your pain. This entire tier has wayyyy too much hit/expertise and there isn't much you can do about it. Your enchants are perfect.

The only piece of advice I can offer you is you can swap out the str/hit gem on your shoulder for a pure str gem. The extra hit isn't doing anything for you and 160 str is better than the 140 your getting.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Death Knight
10790
Pwnjuice - how am I looking now mate?
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
8225
Pwnjuice - how am I looking now mate?


not bad kadajj BUT OH GOD...that spark is an eyesore. It's about a 7k - 8k DPS drop from relic of xuen please go get one if you can lol.

(unless they changed proc rate which i haven't seen. If you have a relic i dare you to try it out over spark though see what happens)
Edited by Aeirah on 4/2/2013 6:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Human Death Knight
12775
@Ayriagosa
@Aeriah
Cool Tmorgs Guys!!

Question, should I change my gloves for the Valor ones? I mean, do the extra strenght compensate the set(4) loss?
Reply Quote
92 Human Death Knight
10475
Heya

I would really appreciate any tips you could give me on my gemming etc.

not sure what trinkets i should roll with. i have 1/2 upgraded normal Lei Sheins final orders, 2/2 normal Darkmist Vortex, 2/2 Relic of Xuen and 502 LFR Spark of Zandalar. i've been rolling with double haste trinkets and mostly gemming haste (2H Frost), but I'm not sure if I should keep 2 haste trinkets, but then change my gemming around to mostly full STR.
Thanks!
Reply Quote
92 Human Death Knight
10475
(unless they changed proc rate which i haven't seen. If you have a relic i dare you to try it out over spark though see what happens)


they did change the proc rate btw, it increased it quite a lot, still a shoddy trinket though when comparing them to other 5.2 trinkets.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Death Knight
10790
04/02/2013 06:22 AMPosted by Aeirah
Pwnjuice - how am I looking now mate?


not bad kadajj BUT OH GOD...that spark is an eyesore. It's about a 7k - 8k DPS drop from relic of xuen please go get one if you can lol.

(unless they changed proc rate which i haven't seen. If you have a relic i dare you to try it out over spark though see what happens)


Heya!

When I had relic equipped I found I was doing less dps and damage overall.

I'll try it out in an LFR and see.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]