PVE DPS after the 40% bomb buff - Thoughts?

100 Human Mage
14765
Bombs == PITA.

1) Tab targetting is unreliable for a number of well-documented reasons. The first tab won't move off the current target; if the mobs move around, the tab order starts over; tab distance is uncontrolled; etc.

2) Click-targetting is even less reliable as health bars dance around in a jig.

3) Mouse over targetting is only reliable if you have a tool-tip add-on (Living Bomb Tracker, revisited) that tells you if NT is applied and how much time remains. If parts or most of a potential target are covered up, you will never DoT it.

You need to target a mob, directly or indirectly, get feedback from an addon to tell if you should apply your bomb, apply your bomb, all within one GCD. With 180 ms latency, it takes nearly 700 ms for my screen to show me if the mob should be (re)dotted. If it shouldn't be, I've just lost 700 ms, never to be recovered, as I am working well into the next GCD.

All of this is happening while Ignite is falling off, and you are losing DPS on your main target.

No, I am not impressed with what is happening to my mage. I'm being sat for progression in my guild because others can do the same DPS as me, plus they can damage on the move or interrupt more often or provide supplemental healing or mana return, or in some cases, all of the above.
Edited by Doroteasenjk on 3/25/2013 3:30 PM PDT
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100 Orc Mage
14950
I think the fact that every single mage that has posted since the original poster being fire or frost answers that question better than the actual answers do.

Arcane is crap. We need SERIOUS attention, and I'm not holding my breath. While I understand it's supposedly a lot better at higher Ilvls, if we don't switch to fire or frost we aren't gonna ever get the gear we need, cause we'll be sitting.

Yeah we have a few multi dot tricks now. Whoopee, we're a warlock with no utility...gratz.
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90 Troll Mage
7855


Or he could be REALLY good.


don't forget that nav could be the bad one in his group.


Look at my logs and see for yourself.
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100 Worgen Mage
18710
I would like to go back to my hard casting nuke spec and not be a glorified arcane shadowlockpriest.

I didn't roll this toon to be a DoT class, I specifically rolled this class to be a hard caster. A quality of life change would be allowing me to move and DPS like EVERY OTHER class that can now do so. We were expected to do massive damage by being a turret and now you've removed the ability to not only not turret, with so much moving in encounters, but by making our bombs our primary source of damage.

Things I'd like to see.

1. Mages are hard casting, heavy damage.
2. No multidotting.
3. Casting while moving to be on par with every other class.
4. Mages having raid utility (not just add control, anyone can do this. I mean a raid wide mana return/battle rez/or ice barrier).
5. Level 90 talents abolished and give us a real DPS cooldown.

Or how about an alter time that is raid wide, have it on a 10 minute CD. This would essential save a raid from a wipe (provided you didn't die while alter time was active), or let healers mana pop back up.
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90 Human Mage
Ego
9780
My thoughts? Mages aren't fun anymore.


I think we are just in a rough spot. I do have to admit, over the ourse of this game's history we have been pretty up there. We will have our place in the sun back in the future. In the mean time lets just try to make the most of it.

Also I do have to notice that Warlocks have been up there for quite some time. Perhaps there is someone behind the scenes that is trying to keep them from going down.
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90 Human Mage
Ego
9780
Look at my logs and see for yourself.

You're missing a tinker brah.
(not meant to be a troll).
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90 Gnome Mage
11195
Since the changes the class does not feel the same. It is, for lack of a better word, clunky. It does not feel smooth any more. The bomb changes just made no sense and the obvious over nerf of fire and arcane is glaring.

The bombs should all be options but NT is so obviously over powered that every raider feels compelled to take it. Like others in this thread I hate the multi-dot play style so I choose FB. I know it's a dps loss but I just LFR so it's not as big a deal to me but I did much prefer the glyph spread of LB.

I liked the water elemental before but now he is just a pest. Once they gutted Freeze they should have just added his baseline damage into our frost bolts and eliminated him because now he basically just gets in the way.

I agree we need much more work now than we did before the changes but this has always been Blizzard's style. Take a huge swing at a problem then spend the rest of the expansion trying to fix the mistake.
Edited by Tatertawt on 3/26/2013 7:33 AM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
11370
I don't know why people just assume that NT is far and away better than the other bombs. It's not as big of a difference as people make it out to be. Each bomb has it's own strengths and weaknesses. On single target fights they are practically equal.

I was convinced that LB was useless, but after some research it's actually the strongest bomb still on 3, maybe 2, targets clumped together.

Frost bomb isn't as far behind as some people think for frost either. The main strength of the bomb is knowing when your brain freeze proc will come. This helps line up alter time combos, saving procs for when you have a SP buff, plan movement, etc. With NT, I feel like I have to use my proc asap because i might be missing out on more procs.

I only use NT on fights like council or very high movement fights. Otherwise I prefer frost bomb.
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100 Draenei Mage
20070
03/25/2013 12:21 PMPosted by Phígment
My thoughts? Mages aren't fun anymore


Agree


+1

Its difficult learning how to play your mage better when you no longer enjoy playing your mage. My desire to improve competes with my desire to quit playing my mage. My casual raiding team made up of friends is the only thing that keeps me playing my mage. But even thats fading. Im thrilled they managed to get council yesterday, but also kinda happy I had a family event and had to miss it . . .
Edited by Rentrenus on 3/26/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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100 Human Warlock
7615
Any increase in DPS is an improvement in terms of the bottom line, but as a quality of life thing, it's pretty terrible. We're nukers not multi-dotters. If I wanted to multi-dot I would be running my Shadow Priest. The fact that they took away Fire's bomb spread, and then buffed the bombs shortly thereafter, says to me that they are not sure what to do with us, and just threw the buff out to placate us for going from top DPS to bottom in one patch.

If I can't play Fire (and with 494ilvl, I can't), I don't really want to play my Mage. If it weren't for the fact that I would have to do an ungodly amount of grinding to catch up, I would switch to my Priest or Paladin at this point. As it is, I am stuck playing a spec I dislike just to do passable DPS.


It's not as bad as you think. I'm two weeks into my lock reroll, making good progress on reps, and think I can get into ToT LFR within a couple more weeks.

For regular or heroic raiding gearing up might be tougher.

If you've got enough gold (boes will allow you to bypass heroics entirely,) a scribe alt (for the boa staff,) and revered reps on your old main you can expedite a reroll. It's about a month long process from the time you hit level 90 to reach current content, give or take and depending on your luck with drops. They've jacked up the drop rate in LFR, too.

This expansion is not alt friendly. But it is just possible to switch mains in a relatively short period of time.
Edited by Sybhyl on 3/26/2013 1:05 PM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
20525
It's about a month long process from the time you hit level 90 to reach current content, give or take and depending on your luck with drops. They've jacked up the drop rate in LFR, too.

This expansion is not alt friendly. But it is just possible to switch mains in a relatively short period of time.


It's not as alt friendly as it used to be but I have my Mage at 504, Bear at 498 and a Rogue sitting at 486.

Gearing up is much easier now in 5.2. You can craft a full set of 458 PvP gear to start with, matched with 476 Gloves/Chest (fairly cheap) to get into MV LFR. Go through the new island/scenario for Elder Charms and use them on every boss. I can just about guarantee you'll hit 470 and can continue through HoF/ToES. If you don't quite hit 480 by then you will the next week when you can get more valor and buy a 522 ring. Boom, ToT LFR with 502 gear.

If that isn't going fast enough, run heroics and convert your JP to Honor (or do BGs) to buy 476 PvP gear.

Throw in some t14 OpenRaid and you'll be 490+ and ready to start ToT normal modes within two weeks, maybe one with luck.
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100 Gnome Mage
20090
5.2 made the expansion more alt-friendly, my 3rd Mage Warranty hit 90 2 weeks ago and he was able to get up to 480 almost instantly with craftables, 476 honor gear in the right slots, doing my weekly trove for the 10 elders to run all the 5.0 lfrs.
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100 Human Warlock
7615
I only hit 470 today on my second reset. But that's not bad at all. And I've got 1200 VP banked. Just waiting until I do the rest of this weeks LFRs and see what drops come my way before spending that. ToT could be possible by next reset, I think it's going to take two more. So, conservatively speaking: a month. That's completely acceptable for a reroll.

Doing that for each of my alts, though, NFW. This is an adventure, not a job.
Edited by Sybhyl on 3/26/2013 3:46 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Mage
4220
I decided to pick my mage back up a few days ago and I got 480 really fast; treasure scenario really quickens the gear pace.
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90 Troll Mage
7855
03/26/2013 07:00 AMPosted by Roxxùs
Look at my logs and see for yourself.

You're missing a tinker brah.
(not meant to be a troll).


The glider got old. Quick.
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90 Goblin Mage
16065
My thoughts? Mages aren't fun anymore.


And so now, I'm a shadow priest ^_^

For now.
Edited by Rorrim on 3/26/2013 7:59 PM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
11370
Posted by Sinuous

I don't know why people just assume that NT is far and away better than the other bombs. It's not as big of a difference as people make it out to be. Each bomb has it's own strengths and weaknesses. On single target fights they are practically equal.


Posted by Lhivera

The 40% buff threw off the balance of the bombs vs the other AOE spells. Frost Bomb and Living Bomb competed very favorably with Nether Tempest because the extra GCDs they left open could be used on other spells, and those spells did sufficient DPCT relative to the bombs to keep LB and FB secure in their niches.

But with the bombs buffed by 40%, and spells like Frozen Orb, Flamestrike, and Blizzard left alone, the value of those open GCDs has taken a dive, making NT significantly more powerful relative to the other two bombs than it was before.

Frost Bomb is the option that doesn't really feel like a DOT. But with the powerful trinkets triggered by periodic damage, and the shift in balance that the buff caused, it's not nearly as competitive in nearly as many situations as it could be.
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium


That's one person's opinion. From my experience, the bombs are much closer than people think. If you have Breath of Hydra or LotC then yeah you have to use Nether Tempest, but the fact remains the bombs still have strengths and weaknesses.

Like I said, in general I prefer Frost bomb on single target because the damage compared with NT is nearly identical. I['ve tested it on dummies and ran simcraft. What I gain is the ability to predict when my BF procs will happen, which fits with my playstyle. Other people may want the mobility offered by NT and don't mind the random nature of BF procs. For me, unless the fight requires tons of movement, the mobility advantage of NT doesn't outweigh the predictability of brain freeze.

But I've seen many posts, including the frost pve guide recently posted, saying all the other bombs are useless and you should always pick NT. I'm saying that Frost Bomb, and LB are more competitive than people give them credit for. And on single target, the difference is very little.
Edited by Sinuous on 3/27/2013 7:18 AM PDT
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