Ret PvP dead? Be honest!

91 Orc Hunter
5260
I haven't played my pally in almost two years, got him to 80 and have been using my hunter. I was debating picking my pally back up but see so many mixed feelings on this forum for ret pvp.

How good or how bad is it?

Is there a big jump in effectivness once all geared up in mal or tyranical, or do the faults of the ret pally still ruin the party?

Once the ret burst window has closed, can you sustain damage or kill anything with consistency?

What I used to hate was not being able to really keep players in melee, seemed like everyone could get away better than my pally could close. I had some fun but overall the frustration really sank in.

Please don't base your opinion on what some freak of nature in the top rated arena bracket is doing. I'm interested in the typical ret experience currently.

Thanks for any replies!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5170
Well Im by no means a top rated arena master but I do ok and play with my son mostely.
I will say staying on a target is harder then MOST melee but we now have a very solid amount of range dps. and our off healing and group utility is very strong since 5.2 landed. our sustained dps is still !@#$ but we get more burst windows now.
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90 Human Paladin
6780
If you were chased away from Ret to begin with because of a lack of sticking power than you'll find nothing new.
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90 Human Paladin
13270
Better for arena, but still bad in RBGs. As long as there mechanics like solarbeam/vortex, grips AoE fear and classes with superb ranged/AoE DPS, ret will continue to suck in RBGs. I highly doubt they will change ret enough to compete with that.
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94 Draenei Paladin
15655
I have a blast on my ret. Gear makes a huge difference (way more than it did for my warrior or hunter) and now that I am geared, random bgs are awesome.

As far as sticking power, talenting into Burden of guilt and Long arm of the Law, with the pvp glove bonus of 40 yard judgments means you have a 40 yard snare. Mounted players literally cannot outrun you. (It takes 2-3 judgments to catch a mounted player, plus an exorcism or two and a holy prism means you can catch up to them with a full Hp bar:)

Also it means hardly any class can kite you effectively (Mage/hunter being the most effective at this of course, but you can still catch them)

As far as the sustained damage goes, its not bad. Trick is, while your burst is on CD you should also be as focused on off healing and protecting your team mates and then once CDs are up you can lay down the pain.
Taking Divine Purpose is also a great way to up your sustained and/or off healing output as well as it can provide possibly the best burst of the three talents if all your stars align (7 tvs in a row is my record:) but the burst is very RNG so you cannot rely on it. I do love the excitement of getting DP procs and it makes even using inquisition fun.

Great solo survivability, BG heroics and twos for points is what ret is all about and that's what I like to do
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94 Draenei Paladin
15655
If you were chased away from Ret to begin with because of a lack of sticking power than you'll find nothing new.


If he was "chased away" during cata or wrath, then he will find Ret has more ranged attacks, a passive snare, a talented range snare, a shorter CD judgment and a long arm of the law with no minimum range. That's plenty of helpful change for ret as far as kiting and target uptime go.
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90 Human Paladin
8500
Dont be lazy and ret will be fun. Dont compare classes and you will appreciate ret for what it is.

If you cant stick on a target as ret, you either:
1. Key turn
2. Have horrible lag
3. Dont know wtf is up
between LAotL, BoG, FoJ, and SoJ sticking to your target should not be a problem.
And btw, these talents also help in being an effective kiter. Dont be lazy, keybind seals and use accordingly.

True, our sustained damage is below average but we have BIG burst damage(that can be alternatively BIG burst heals). Forget DP, save it for pve if that. Ret is all about burst. Opt for HolyAvenger and we effectively have two big burst periods or one insane burst period.

Unless you want to just be silly OP easymode key banging fotm, you should play a pally. Dont forget, everyone plays by the same set of rules. Some just know how to bend and abuse them. I have met a few fotm op specs this patch that have gone as far as saying ret is op and should be nerfed. ¤ahem mages, spriests
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8755
i just finished gearing (i just do randoms for now). Gear did make a huge huge difference. With no pvp gear or the pvp blues I couldn't even get my rotation/priority going and it was tough just getting 1 kill at 90. Now however I do a lot better, the more purple gear I got the more I noticed a difference in survival/damage. With my Dk even in old gear I still can do ok and so much snare and anti-everything i guess I took the melee dps for granted.

The only tip I got is stick with it, get gear, get your keybinds down (i still forget to use blinding light). I'm not pro, or top tier but ret can be pretty fun but the skill cap for it is soooo high I think thats why some people enjoy it for the challenge
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I haven't played my pally in almost two years, got him to 80 and have been using my hunter. I was debating picking my pally back up but see so many mixed feelings on this forum for ret pvp.

How good or how bad is it?

Horrible against wizard cleaves and knowledgable opponents. Okay against the average player.

Is there a big jump in effectivness once all geared up in mal or tyranical, or do the faults of the ret pally still ruin the party?

The gear makes a noticable difference for healing and damage. Ret's only purpose is to play with a party, so if you play without one, you're terribly gimped. That said, if people are choosing strictly on a class-by-class basis, do not expect to be picked for a PvP group. Your methods of helping people aren't great effects, and they're entirely countered by dispels.

Once the ret burst window has closed, can you sustain damage or kill anything with consistency?

No.

What I used to hate was not being able to really keep players in melee, seemed like everyone could get away better than my pally could close. I had some fun but overall the frustration really sank in.

The issue isn't staying on an enemy, but living to stay on an enemy. Ret is extremely squishy.

Please don't base your opinion on what some freak of nature in the top rated arena bracket is doing. I'm interested in the typical ret experience currently.

I can't recommend ret to anyone in and of itself. It's really bad. If and only if you like the aesthetic of this class and spec, play it.

Thanks for any replies!
Edited by Caedwyn on 3/25/2013 5:22 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
5415
To the OP:

I just hit 90 on my paladin a few days ago. If you look at my gear it is mostly just junk I could pick up quick and easy. I feel like my experience playing ret the past couple days is what you would call the "average" experience. I am going to shed some light on retribution in general without being overly specific. Ultimately if you don't like the play style then there is nothing you can do and you should find a class where the mechanics suit how you like to play. In the past couple of days I have done some 2s with a Warlock, ran some randoms, and encountered some pretty decent world pvp fights. Here are a couple pointers I have for you and have learned myself.

1. Our self healing is pretty good "inside of combat". Instant cast FoL and a 3 HoPo WoG can be built up pretty easily if you bank HoPo. I suggest changing your CLC ret priority to judgement for pvp because that is going to give you the most healing potential. However, you can only get off a few heals outside of combat, so thinking your going to stand back and pocket heal someone to try and peel someone off is crazy. You can throw out maybe 2-3 FoL before your mana bar is empty. I personally don't like that mana doesn't scale with gear but its no big deal.

2. Our burst is good. If you know when to use it. AW makes you a glowing fairy and draws a lot of attention to yourself. So you have to be smart with it, coordinate CC and all the jazz which leads to point 3.

3. We are extremely vulnerable to CC inside of our cool downs. Mages, DKs, Warriors, and Hunters lick there lips when they see you blow all of your CDs. But be smart, don't freak, and heal yourself and use all your hand spells and bubble if you need to. What you will find is even if you don't do a ton of burst while AW is up is that you intimidate people. They blow CC then you make them vulnerable to your own FoJ or HoJ.

4. RBGs will be hard for you to get picked up unless you are really geared and good or have friends that are leading them. Since the change to HoS in 5.2 we are a "little" more viable. But, what we bring to the table in a RBG there are other classes that can do it better or have so much more control.

Tips

1. When facing a warrior or priest in arena get creative with bubble. Shattering throw and mass dispel make it almost useless. Use it to drop bleeds and dots early or just to gap close while saving a freedom or when it is on CD. It's better if they don't expect it.

2. Download CLC ret and event alert.

3. Kite more. Kiting is actually really viable as ret. Warriors and DK's you can judge and exorcism with to generate HoPo with and just self heal at distance. Especially if you are specced into Burden of Guilt.

4. Take Holy Prism. It's on a 20 sec CD and is the obvious choice imo.

5. Don't be selfish "you are a paladin!" heal your team and freedom them! I love that about this class, you can actually determine the outcome of fights in very interesting and unique way.

6. Always keep respec dust on you! There are so many situational glyphs/talents. FoJ is the common choice but I sometimes feel like Burden of Guilt is better if you are having trouble closing.

7. Macro Avenging Wrath and Holy Avenger together and also have them separated. sometimes you need to throw the kitchen sink and explode someone while they are feared/silenced ect. However, staggering your 2 offensive CDs can be beneficial. But, they both have a 2min CD so they go well together. Macro an offensive trinket and synapse springs from eng to it if you have them.

8. LoS- self explanatory. Dont run straight at hunters in arena, pillar them.

9. Be liberal with your hand spells and cleanse. I notice that many pally's don't use there cooldowns enough. If you are specced into clemency "which you should be" you can throw out a lot of them out.

In closing I would just like to say that people always want to complain. People want things handed to them. If you like being a paladin then you will be fine. If you are looking for a FoTM you won't find it here. I'm not "pro" or would ever claim to be. I just play a couple hours every night when I get off work and I really enjoy playing ret. I hope this helps. Good luck.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6085
do not roll ret every other melee does it better fyi


^ this!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Ret's are fine as they were and they were fine last season too.

lol, yea right. that's why Ret got buffed with Sac magic dispel, 2 min Wings, glyph of TV, better heals, etc

ret was bad in 5.1 and warrior was OP. double whammy

If you are running arenas pick up a hunter and priest.

good advice. i faced this today and it's extremely zergy. you can blow up mages or paladins so hard and then MD block/bubble. i'm sure feral-ret and dk-ret are good as well

do not roll ret every other melee does it better fyi

Unholy does it better this season -- their survivability is ridiculous. rogue has sick openers, but at least it's squishy if caught in a solid stun. warrior doesn't, enhance doesn't. ring of peace needs a nerf (45 sec CD wtf), but i wouldn't say WW is better than Ret. some people would think i'm crazy for saying this, but atm i feel equal to feral

perhaps all the ferals are just out of my MMR bracket :P
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90 Pandaren Monk
5855
Not for RBGs, the paladin class does not seem like it can be RBG viable without a large mechanics overhaul which isn't likely.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7570
I'm gonna just go for it and become an ultimate battle healer.

I'll gear for kicking in teeth, run with Seal of Insight and a ton of Str/Mastery with the Battle Healer glyph.

I'll swap to Seal of Justice if I use Wings/Holy Avenger for damage.

Who thinks I'm retarded? This is for BGs only.
Edited by Kaskarum on 3/27/2013 5:12 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
6620
I'm gearing through BGs right now too, and I can tell you, Ret feels amazing... BUT, it's only because I like the playstyle. You have to know what you're getting into.

If you just want to queue up and run around killing things, that's viable, but you'll GREATLY notice the gaps in kill potential, outside of burst. However, if you want to kill things AND support your team between burst periods, then Ret will be right for you.

I'm a re-roll from a healer (Priest then Shaman), and I enjoy helping others very much in PvP. I also enjoyed killing things as a Warrior at 85, which was hugely fun, but I missed all the support tools I had on my healers. So as a Ret, I can do both of those things and I hardly get bored.

It isn't for everyone, for sure.
Edited by Shinn on 3/27/2013 10:15 PM PDT
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