In 5.3, I will have to pve to wpvp.

The irony is exquisite. At least I won't need to grind two separate prot sets now.
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90 Orc Warrior
9950
Meh, the difference between them will still be small. PvP power is still a very harsh scaler. Getting 50% PvP Power on someone vs having 20 extra ilvls, I would almost say is the same thing.
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
So you'll be gemming your PvE gear with resilience? They have said nothing of the gems going away as far as I know.
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I think this is a potential boon for all tanks, both pvp and pve. Instead of doing raids and grinding conquest, we will just spend our time in raids, which will actually give us BIS for pvp (as the carrier). We don't need power or crit so we'll actually be better off with dodge/parry from our pve set. In addition, some of the new set bonuses will be quite helpful in pvp. Oh, and if you are on a pvp server, the pve gear won't be downgraded for world pvp, which makes the raid set even more attractive.

As far as gemming goes, it will depend on your environment. I'd probably stick with pve gems if pushing cutting-edge content but otherwise I'll gem resilience when stuff is on farm or when pushing for high rating. Being on a pvp server will play a factor as well.
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100 Human Paladin
14245
I would almost say is the same thing.


Perhaps my math is just off, but I think that +20 item levels is worth considerably less than +50% damage. I think that many item levels is something like ~20-25% more stats, and I would be very surprised if that was even remotely close to as good as dealing 50% additional damage, even when you take the stamina/armor benefit into account.

Beyond that, PvP as-is is balanced around Battle Fatigue, which obviously isn't active out in the world. You get a very different play experience without it. (I'm not going to say it's worse, just that it's fairly obvious at this point that the balance microscope is trained on the instanced PvP experience.)

And besides that, this is a pretty major change and it just got announced on a PTR which hasn't even gone live yet. They've got a lot of time to hammer things out.
Edited by Branar on 3/23/2013 3:39 PM PDT
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Yes, but from a tanking perspective, pvp power and the other offensive stats are not necessary to be an effective flag carrier in BGs. The only reason carriers used pvp gear at all was for the resilience. With 65% resilience baseline, a prot player will want to go with pve tanking gear because dodge/parry will offer more benefit, especially with favorable set bonuses. If you're already wearing ilvl 496+ tanking gear, then you've effectively achieved BiS for pvp until 5.4.
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
Not necessarily, as dodge and parry are the lowest priority stats for pretty much every tank in pve currently.

Most geared tanks now would be way over the necessary hit/exp in their tanking setup and looking to drop it all for haste or crit depending on the class, for superior active mitigation rather than dodge/parry and a prayer.

In the end you'd just end up with the same basic stats vs pvp gear except you'd be out a ton of pvp power.
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100 Human Paladin
14245
03/23/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Taunque
With 65% resilience baseline, a prot player will want to go with pve tanking gear because dodge/parry will offer more benefit, especially with favorable set bonuses.


There is still an awful lot of information we don't have yet and it doesn't take much to tip the sacles in favor of PvP gear when you'll be in equal ilevel gear either way. What are they doing with the 1000 resil 4p PvP set bonus? With the resil socket bonuses on PvP items?

It's way, way too early to be celebrating/bemoaning the fact that you'll be using PvE items for PvP.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15940
People still WPvP?
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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People still WPvP?
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859


On pvp servers, it's called doing dailies.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15940
On pvp servers, it's called doing dailies.
Ahh, right. When I played on a pvp server, wpvp involved mostly hoping the Horde that outnumbered Alliance roughly 10:1 didn't spot you or decide to kill you, because if you tried to fight back, half a dozen more would pop up and kill you.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
wpvp for the last 5 years or so has been
"Look for the level 10s"
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100 Dwarf Warrior
10505
I mess around as flag carrier in my PVE set now.... with 40% resil inate it takes about 3-5 people to down me. So i am looking foward to the 65%
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100 Human Warlock
20305
wpvp for the last 5 years or so has been
"Look for the level 10s"

Pretty sure it's actually been "take my buddies and gang up on people doing dailies, and when someone fights back cower behind the quest hub guards."
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Looks like the devs are aware of the issue. I guess we'll hear more soon.

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/315340497289900032
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90 Night Elf Druid
14475
Looks like the devs are aware of the issue. I guess we'll hear more soon.

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/315340497289900032


Couple of things:

1 - All that Dodge/Parry is still pretty craptastic in a PvP setting, even if you try to consider a very melee heavy team that all stupidly pokes you in the face

2 - Most of our AM buttons either work just fine if practically naked or are nigh useless without Vengeance, so the presence of PvP gear or PvE gear really doesn't do much of anything

3 - Mastery would be the most likely driving force behind a very efficiently crafted RBG Flag Carrier set, something that already exists on PvP pieces and can be Reforged. What is most likely to happen is you will find the ideal set for a purely defensive purpose being one that simply has the lion's share of rating shoved towards Mastery... which means finding whatever PvE piece of any ilvl above or equal to 496 to fit that slot if a PvP piece doesn't exist... assuming such gearing is even ideal.

4 - In the absolute worst case scenario... you can get all the "right" pieces if such a set exists via LFR which is all ilvl 502. Yes, yes... we don't want to PvE to PvP, we get that, but the items themselves are hardly out of reach when you realize that there is literally no difference in someone wearing a 502 or a 544 version of the exact same item. And if some really nifty Ra-den piece proves to be BiS for RBG FC... oh well. That's a minor enough improvement to a rare enough group of people to really not be a blip on the radar.

At the end of the day though the advantages gained from a hybrid set of PvE/PvP gear for RBG FC jobs over one just rocking 100% PvP gear is going to be some extra avoidance (that's largely wasted and likely Reforged out of) and potentially higher Mastery. For a Warrior you're still going to want your 4p PvP gear for the speed boost with gloves for the cheaper slows, and gemming Resilience everywhere else (which you can still do).

A difference of perhaps 2-3% total Avoidance and boosting your Critical Block/Block chance by a small margin isn't going to magically make you a juggernaut to take down or necessitate getting obscure line-ups of PvE gear. The prevalence of magic damage and ranged caster DPS in PvP kind of makes such skills and stats irrelevant.
Edited by Fasc on 3/25/2013 10:06 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
Yeah, I really, REALLY hope the devs actually give us some time to test this one and see if these concerns are actually legitimate before they do something ridiculous like convert tank pvp power to resil so we're even more useless without a flag in our hands.
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90 Night Elf Druid
14475
You mean being a walking CC bot that people actively try to ignore (and often fail to do so out of sheer frustration) isn't satisfying enough?

I must be a weird guy to like that role in other PvP games along with this one.
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90 Orc Death Knight
15510
They could try to make PVP Power a defensive stat for tanks by removing the flat damage increase against players and reimplementing a variety of vengeance for PVP that caps relative to the tank's PVP Power. Every tank class except for Death Knights would receive a survivability increase from the attack power increase (and they could try to give Death Knights some scaling Death Strike heal up to a maximum cap based off of PVP Power, although that could be considerably more difficult to math out).

If they equalize the effective damage of PVP Power against the expected attack power gains from vengeance, this could also be achieved without any noticeable increase in tank spec damage output.
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