Tank Lounge #65: Game of Tanks

90 Dwarf Warrior
12710
03/22/2013 10:22 PMPosted by Serinicas
I think I see where they're going with this. Purely speculating, but I'd wager Elite gear has extra PvP Power compared to normal, and PvP Power may be immune to scaling downwards. The BG scaling then leaves Elite > Non-elite > crafted, but all three are usable in PvE for appropriate level content. Meanwhile, rolling in with Thunderforged Heroic gear isn't going to help, because it'll scale down to even footing with PvP gear, but you're missing PvP Power.

I have my doubts about scaling, since it divides the game experience.

The reasoning behind Resilience's introduction in Burning Crusade makes sense. The reasoning behind Mists changes doesn't, really.

One, the only real obstacles to transitioning from PvE to PvP are the size of Honor payouts and the initial season's lack of weapons. After rewards were increased in early/mid-Cataclysm, gearing a fresh 90 was no more difficult for me then than it's been for, say, my shaman over the last month.

Two, in Mists so far, the only reason to bring PvP gear into raids was to fill slots whose items were, early on, behind reputation gates. They're still liabilities through lower item level; just not, I suppose, stigmatized with itemization spent on irrelevant stats. Even if they aren't, the purchase system runs a little counter to Blizzard's intentions for PvE gearing. And finally, bringing PvE gear into most PvP situations still results in you getting steam-pressed by a guy you can't touch.

So but for stats and some PvE use for PvP gear, nothing's really changed since last expansion.

Still, making Resilience into a near-static stat is a good change. I'd prefer to see additional PvP stats added through PvP gear or class bonuses — using "piece" loosely, up to 8-piece, 11-piece and 14-piece, solidifying a preference for that gear over PvE items. Finally, healing and absorption of player-caused damage needs to be reduced 80-90%. I think there's a happy medium where healers are still quite useful, but they're no longer so pivotal in preventing deaths that they're a) impervious in large enough numbers and b) always singled out because of it.
90 Human Warlock
17000
03/23/2013 07:17 AMPosted by Aedilhild
Two, in Mists so far, the only reason to bring PvP gear into raids was to fill slots whose items were, early on, behind reputation gates. They're still liabilities through lower item level; just not, I suppose, stigmatized with itemization spent on irrelevant stats.

I disagree. 496 is presumably, what ToT is balanced around if we're to believe that normal T14 is enough to be comfortable in T15. It'll be pretty easy to make the transition from PvP to raiding current tier as a result, in addition to the odd slot fill-in. Plus, it's a fantastic investment for alts; essentially an uncapped source for VP level gear. I wouldn't be surprised if something changes about that last point though.

And finally, bringing PvE gear into most PvP situations still results in you getting steam-pressed by a guy you can't touch.

I think the issue here (that they're trying to fix) is sheer ilevel. Elite gear is 512, Thunderforged Heroic is 541; I don't think it's hard to imagine a 541 weapon beating the pants off an Elite weapon, even with PvP Power. They'd need to add a ton of PvP power to make Elite better, and then add more to lower levels to make them not horribly outclassed. And that makes it even worse for players just starting! The simplest solution is to just make the high ilevel PvE items a complete non-issue; drag them down to equal ilevel, and have PvP items win with PvP stats.
90 Dwarf Warrior
12710
03/23/2013 09:45 AMPosted by Serinicas
I disagree. 496 is presumably, what ToT is balanced around if we're to believe that normal T14 is enough to be comfortable in T15. It'll be pretty easy to make the transition from PvP to raiding current tier as a result, in addition to the odd slot fill-in. Plus, it's a fantastic investment for alts; essentially an uncapped source for VP level gear. I wouldn't be surprised if something changes about that last point though.

I don't follow. Tyrannical gear is comparable to top-level T14 gear, but Conquest caps. Current Honor gear is wonderfully easy to obtain, but it's i476 and weapons are i470.

Not saying you're wrong. I'm probably missing something.

I think the issue here (that they're trying to fix) is sheer ilevel. Elite gear is 512, Thunderforged Heroic is 541; I don't think it's hard to imagine a 541 weapon beating the pants off an Elite weapon, even with PvP Power.

Well — I'm just focusing on the results of Blizzard's "easy transition" initiative as seen in 5.0 and 5.1. It failed. To this point, PvP entry is still unfriendly, and unless PvP-geared advantages drop considerably, scaling back PvE won't change anything.

But, see, ironically, I don't think getting blown up when you start PvPing is a problem now that Honor flows so freely. Run Alterac Valley to get lost in the crowd, and you can start to hold your own after a week or so of gearing. (Not sure why everyone thinks they should be able to go mid in Warsong Gulch on Day One.) It's quite convenient; the payout increase was one of Blizzard's best changes from Cataclysm.

The simplest solution is to just make the high ilevel PvE items a complete non-issue; drag them down to equal ilevel, and have PvP items win with PvP stats.

Maybe. Still sounds like the same game. I'm still curious what greatly slowing the pace of player-player damage and greatly reducing the reversing effect of PvP-damage healing would do.
Edited by Aedilhild on 3/23/2013 10:53 AM PDT
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12825
03/23/2013 07:09 AMPosted by Sedori
So is there any One-Handed Yellow Weapons that's an Axe/Mace/Sword that isn't too intrusive but at the same time noticeable?


Rod of the Sun King (has purple gem that glows) and Axe of Rin'Ji.
90 Tauren Paladin
16135
Posted by SedoriSo is there any One-Handed Yellow Weapons that's an Axe/Mace/Sword that isn't too intrusive but at the same time noticeable?


OOps forgot I had changed before posting. Axe outta BWL matched judgement well
Edited by Darthsirak on 3/23/2013 12:28 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12685
So is there any One-Handed Yellow Weapons that's an Axe/Mace/Sword that isn't too intrusive but at the same time noticeable? My tiny mace gets eaten alive by the River's Song enchant blue aura :(


I like the art on Mantid Sky Reaver don't know if it will fit for whatever set you are working for.
80 Troll Rogue
2205
Think I got all of the lost and found items i can.

Time to actually start leveling

edit:

Derp...wrong rogue
Edited by Chownted on 3/23/2013 3:03 PM PDT
90 Worgen Rogue
15175
This.
90 Draenei Shaman
8755
A few things @ the PvP talk.

I fully understand why they scaled base resil and added PvP power at the begining of the expansion. Anyone that PvP's knows that's in vein, as it doesn't strike the core of the problem.

Different classes scale with Resil different than others. Two biggest outliers obviously being FC's and healers. PvP power doesn't work, like at all. There's too much burst and CC in the game. It's not an attractive stat over haste/crit whatever, despite the fact it scales insanely fast.

I'm scepticle on the whole balance thing. Blizzard tends to balance things on the high end ranking. Okay, so high end PvE is about 50 itemlevels higher than high end PvP. Good luck scaling that blizzard. This is the kind of change that you implement whenever you make entire spell books work like Mage bombs and Warriors Colossal Smash. I simply can not wait until the hilarity that will be next season.

Also, AV isn't PvP. It's a glorified PvE zerg fest masked as a BG. When the gameplan is to go hyper offensive as Alliance, that means that Horde might as well not even be there. There's been many games where I've personally never came in contact with the opposing faction, doing absolutely 0 PvP damage.

Blizzard needed to fix the gating from starter PvP to going through PvP via gear acquisition. There's no reason why a vendor can't sell non-DEable blues at the start of the season for like 500 gold. They just took the problem, and went the complete opposite route. My guess as to why would simply be how much more this game transitions to a E-sport every year.
90 Troll Druid
14480
OBLIGATORY [GNOME] ROAST
90 Human Death Knight
8900
This.
Lol.

Why you no have GID? You camped SKM instead.

Why you not have Misthied gaer?

You're missing a 404 BoA dagger from Jade Forest.
90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
03/23/2013 07:24 PMPosted by Guidance
This.
Lol.

Why you no have GID? You camped SKM instead.

Why you not have Misthied gaer?

You're missing a 404 BoA dagger from Jade Forest.


GID?

None on AH for those 384s or I would...The fact stormscale int 415s are impossible to find is actually one of the big reasons I went with my rogue over shaman.

Well yeah because 442 >>>>>>> 404

edit:

Derp ghost iron dragonling, I have one I just forgot I can use it now. I got swarmkeepers before I hit 87
Edited by Ðemolition on 3/23/2013 7:46 PM PDT
90 Human Warrior
18590
Adjusting to a new guild but enjoying the step into 25man tanking. Hopefully made a good impression on my first run.

Would someone be kind enough to remind me of the macro for initiating the pulling countdown raid warning. Trying not to distract them too much with my australien >.<
90 Human Warrior
12145
Would someone be kind enough to remind me of the macro for initiating the pulling countdown raid warning. Trying not to distract them too much with my australien >.<


/dbm pull #

I abuse it regularly.
90 Human Warrior
18590
/dbm pull #

I abuse it regularly.


Thankyou Low. I imagine setting it to .5 seconds keeps them on their toes ;)
90 Draenei Shaman
14655
Would someone be kind enough to remind me of the macro for initiating the pulling countdown raid warning. Trying not to distract them too much with my australien >.<

Wouldn't distract me .. I'd just mock you for being from the West Island. :D
90 Draenei Warrior
13785
When I raided with an almost entirely Australian team, I couldn't say the word "six" in raids without distracting everyone :(
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
90 Human Warrior
18590
Wouldn't distract me .. I'd just mock you for being from the West Island. :D


Back to the shire with you :P
90 Human Warrior
12145
/dbm pull #

I abuse it regularly.


Thankyou Low. I imagine setting it to .5 seconds keeps them on their toes ;)


I honestly haven't thought of putting half a second there.

But considering how much I pissed off my group on Jin'rohk pulls the first night hitting it by accident...I should do that at some point. >_>
90 Draenei Shaman
14655
When I raided with an almost entirely Australian team, I couldn't say the word "six" in raids without distracting everyone :(

I'm the only Kiwi in our Aussie raid.
Back to the shire with you :P

They're taking the Hobbits to Eisengard .. gard ga ga ga gard. :D
Edited by Namescore on 3/23/2013 10:49 PM PDT
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