Open Libram LXXII: Rainbow in the Dark

90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Greetings and welcome to the 72nd installment of the Open Libram! The beautifully large and sexy alternative to Mangle/Sentry Totem and Tank Lounge!

In these threads, we talk about everything Paladin. Some cool. Some lame. Some information dangerous. Got that question that you're kind of afraid to make a new thread about, or just tired of getting trolled on Trade Chat? Ask it here for a more personal response.

So Blood Elves, get your hair ready, Draenei and Tauren clean off your hooves. Dwarves, the nearest alcohol is to your left for your enjoyment and Humans... well do whatever it is you do that keeps you alive. Or stuff.

Enjoy! Have fun everyone!


Previous Libram: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741297
Libram Archive: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4254457548

Paladin Social Networking:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/283670185033463/

My Little Ponydins by Lobster:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7448/ponydins1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s8CSF.png

"Maid" by the Light: http://i.imgur.com/7zB4K.jpg
Cadenpony: http://i.imgur.com/bU0bh.png
"Bunny" Chaz by Lobster: http://i.imgur.com/IokKV.png

Vanilla Ret Pally "Melgibsmash":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zGEBhJMHA

Title Track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQzNBTukO0w
90 Tauren Paladin
5895
The Resilience change is... Odd.

A few people I know have been talking about PvP gear vs. PvE gear in PvP, and think that even with resilience on PvP gear PvE gear was starting to come close to being as powerful as PvP gear in PvP. I have a sinking feeling that, despite PvP equipment having PvP Power, it won't make up for the loss of base stats damage-wise. Not to mention PvE gear generally has more gem slots then PvP gear.

I certainly hope I'm wrong in that regard. PvE gear should absolutely not be more powerful then PvP gear in PvP, else we revert back to vanilla where people in high-end PvE gear stomped essentially anyone not in the same gear as them.


Going to copy paste a post I made in a different thread. Gear losing it's resilience is quite troubling as far as I can tell so far.
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
Bunny Chaz returns.

Muahahahahaha.

Title track is actually decent and I say that with this type of music not really being my thing so no offense and all that.

As for people thinking these new gear changes will herald PVE gear ruining PVP again I don't think it's going to come to that.

The capping of item level, the PVP power on actual PVP gear and the need for PVP centric gemming and chanting will all pretty well deter that.

In my opinion at least.
100 Human Paladin
13030
pvp power will still make a huge difference, especially considering that any gear you wear to pvp in is going to be normalized to a certain ilvl. this means that it will be impossible for pve gear to be better than pvp gear, because you'll never be able to out-gear the other person to the point where your raw pve stats will be better than pvp gear.
100 Draenei Paladin
18410
I'm more exciting about the ilvl capping in bgs and arenas. I doubt it will make stepping into bgs on a fresh character mid season any less painful. But it's a start at least.

Do most pvpers really go after elite gear for the stats?

03/22/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
Or maybe we're running an exclusive club house of our own?


To be fair, you need a fairly thick skin to keep posting in these threads.

http://youtu.be/a6A2WhUcNec

WTF did I just watch? XD


I had trouble breathing after watching that. It just doesn't stop being funny.
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
How in the hell are people pissed about the new card game thing? It doesn't affect you at ALL if you don't want it too.

Yet I see people in General trying to claim it's an April Fools joke.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
As for people thinking these new gear changes will herald PVE gear ruining PVP again I don't think it's going to come to that.

The capping of item level, the PVP power on actual PVP gear and the need for PVP centric gemming and chanting will all pretty well deter that.

how about set bonuses? i'd probably be willing to give up some pvp power, our crappy pvp 2 pc, and our decent pvp 4pc, for 100% holy dmg tv's. and keep in mind anyone can get these from raid finder...which i guess can also be a good thing since pvp'ers will actually have access, but this can definitely cause complications

edit: and i don't look forward to getting my as* handed to me by pve'ers in world pvp, but if this change encourages more players to try out pvp, if it revitalizes arena, it'll be worth it

of course arena and rbg's aren't actually all that much fun in MoP. pvp just has a bad flow this expansion
Edited by Hafleur on 3/22/2013 8:10 PM PDT
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
03/22/2013 08:04 PMPosted by Hafleur
how about set bonuses?


Yeah there is that I agree.

I think Blizzard should disable PVE set bonuses in PVP environments. We know they can do it because Tier bonuses don't work in Challenge Modes.

How easy it would be to differentiate between Tier bonuses and PVP Gear bonuses I don't know though.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
03/22/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
Title track is actually decent and I say that with this type of music not really being my thing so no offense and all that.


Thought it somewhat fitting after we collectively decided that the Libram was our one Light in the darkness of the Paladin forums.

RIP, Godfather of Metal.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
We know they can do it because Tier bonuses don't work in Challenge Modes.

did not know this! speaking of challenge modes, i wish gems were disabled as well. only ilvl is reduced, right? well i have a bunch of resil gems, and so do my friends. everyone is supposed to be equal

enchants, too. i have a weapon chain rather than dancing steel :\
100 Orc Death Knight
17115
The PvP changes are honestly amazing. To quote somebody on the arena forums, it's probably the biggest fix to PvP they have ever done in one patch in all patches combined in this game.

First off the new system worked mostly okay in the first season but it did have it's problems. Players without PvP gear didn't stand a chance and would mostly explode on contact. If you wore PvP gear against somebody else with PvP gear it was mostly fine.

One of the creeping problems with PvP gear was that people were growing frustrated in PvE that people were wearing PvP items. To fix this Blizzard made the gap in PvP to PvE gear iLvL enormous so that you wouldn't want to wear PvP gear in PvE. To give incentive to PvP gear they did award PvP power/resilience for free (meaning it doesn't count in the budget) to make up for the difference. The results in the first season were such that you didn't really want to wear PvE gear as it wasn't worth it, but the difference between low end PvP gear and high end PvP gear was massive, which people didn't really like.

The new tier has caused an interesting dilemma, especially in light of PvE upgrades coming back. As Blizzard has curbed the returns you get from resilience this patch, the PvP 'bonus' stats (resilience/power) haven't really gotten a lot stronger from last season and the iLvL between PvE/PvP has grown considerably. Tie this altogether and you have a scenario where PvE gear would be strictly superior to PvP gear this season. I don't like that and many other people don't like that either.

Flash forward to today and we have a lot of interesting changes with huge ramifications to the game. Just reading the changes and not going through them might confuse or anger people, but anybody who thinks about them deeply will know.. that this fixes a lot of things in this game.

iLvL scales downward now much like challenge modes. This means that the gap between PvP/PvE gear is no longer an issue. BGs, RBGs and Arena normalize you to 496.

Resilience baseline is set at 65%. 65% currently is what most players have in top end gear (give or take a couple percent). This means that people in PvE gear doing PvP aren't going to explode nor are people with lesser PvP gear going to explode. They are still going to be at a disadvantage but that disadvantage has shrunk, considerably.

Remember that PvP gear of the same iLvL as a PvE piece has the exact same stats. Same primary, same stamina, crit/haste/mastery. There is absolutely zero difference between the two. PvP gear as far as I know will still have some resilience on it and more importantly will have PvP power on it. Which means strictly speaking that you will ALWAYS want to wear PvP gear in almost every PvP situation. While a PvE player might have the same stats and defenses in every other category as you, if you're wearing PvP gear you're still going to be doing 40-50% more damage and healing 20-25% more than he is.

Remember much like challenge modes it scales down. To maximize your gear (it's still a grind, just the impact of being behind isn't as large) you still want to cap points.

All in all it's a great change, it makes gear pretty much a non issue and fixes a lot of the little things that caused huge barrier to entry in the PvP environment. Some issues such as PvE trinkets being too strong might crop up, but considering they already lowered the new trinkets proc rates in PvP shows (along with these changes) that they are serious in leveling the playing field.

The only oddity in all of this that might seem unfair is in regards to world PvP. The iLvL gap is still going to exist in world PvP and high end PvE players that actually know how to PvP are going to !@#$ all over PvP players in the world environment. It sucks for some people (beneficial to me lol) but world PvP has never traditionally been fair.

For those of us who like a level field in arena though, these changes are fantastic.
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
The Open Libram two year anniversary is coming up in a little over two months, a bit early to mention it but we did forget all about it last time. >_>

Thought it somewhat fitting after we collectively decided that the Libram was our one Light in the darkness of the Paladin forums.

RIP, Godfather of Metal.


Indeed.

did not know this! speaking of challenge modes, i wish gems were disabled as well. only ilvl is reduced, right? well i have a bunch of resil gems, and so do my friends. everyone is supposed to be equal

enchants, too. i have a weapon chain rather than dancing steel :\


Far as I know gems work, although I didn't realize Tier bonuses didn't work until just a little while ago.

Trinket effects are a factor too, it's not perfect to be sure.

To be fair, you need a fairly thick skin to keep posting in these threads.


Are you implying that we are an abrasive and sometimes difficult to interact with bunch?

Why I never!

/monocle
Edited by Cadenbrie on 3/22/2013 8:18 PM PDT
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Gems work; did a CM the other day, and had 16% haste, which should otherwise have been impossible with retrograde gear scaling.
100 Orc Death Knight
17115
Gems do work in CM yes. It's about the only advantage I can think of that the PvE gear scaled down will have over the PvP gear at the same iLvL. As long as PvP gear retains it's PvP power and some level of resilience (they stated that it was removed from a lot, but not all) it should be okay though.

In the event PvE set bonuses become more attractive than PvP ones, well they can always turn those off. Or similarly shove more PvP power and add bonus resilience to the PvP set bonuses.
100 Draenei Paladin
18410
On the surface, it seems like gemming would be fairly simple to balance between pve and pvp. Just make sure there's some sort of parity.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
Buy a thing of Whey or spend the money to server and faction change. Decisions decisions.
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
Lobster, king of bad puns.

/random

I popped in old Dynasty Warrior Gundam 2 to play around, cause I'm bored and I haven't touched any of my consoles in so long.

Really I doubt I'll ever get another one except the Wii U when the inevitable Zelda installment comes out, because somehow that thread is unbreakable. Cause Zelda.

Any who game was some fun hacky slashy distraction. I don't know why DW games got so much hate, I have no interest in the traditional ones but one with Gundam slapped on it is hella fun.

Loose story mode that goes through most of the anime series, decent original story mode connecting the cross universe characters and the most important draw delicious fan service in getting to pilot and destroy things in various Mobile Suits.

Cause tearing up crap with Wing Zero or the Hyaku Shiki is fun times. I just wish the Akatsuki was in it.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 3/22/2013 10:17 PM PDT
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Sazabi FTW.

That is all.
100 Dwarf Paladin
11290
In unrelated news; Disney and Wayforward are collaborating to make a Ducktales game similar to the one from '89, but in HD.

Good news is good news.
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