Open Libram LXXII: Rainbow in the Dark

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
Eh... not that I think you're being SUPER SRS, or anything, but...

I kind of am. 5min CD on bubble because of Holy. Forbearance because of Holy. SH dispellable because of Holy. Speed of Light sucks because of Holy. The talent tree is half Ret stuff because of Holy. The list goes on.
90 Human Paladin
15265
To be perfectly honest, Id rather they just get rid of bubble, it barely works on anything, at least in PVE anymore.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
03/25/2013 02:46 AMPosted by Vlada
I can't be the only one that got full on trolled in TBC by strangers and guild mates alike. I can't be the only one that literally got hate mail in my box at least once a week, minimum. I can't be the only one that got whispers saying nothing more than "LOLRET" for no other reason than to remind you what most of the community thought of you. I wish I was making this up. Holy isn't to blame for any of that.


When I joined this guild in BC, there were a number of people who were incredibly mad that I was allowed to dps as a paladin. I went on exactly one raid with my mage, who was arcane at the time when arcane lived and died by that meta gem proc. We did Hydross and Lurker and sat on the top of the meter. A couple people were mad. The GM at the time's gf was a mage, and she didn't like mages higher than her.

The next day, he asked me if I had another raiding toon and he expected me to say no. Only a few days before he invited my friends and I to the guild after we all transferred to Dalaran to join. He knew exactly what two toons were mine, so he let me bring the ret. It was better geared than my mage, and it was that or go two people short instead of one person short. (AN raid days!)

And spent the whole night pulling agro as ret on Leo. Eventually the demon phase tank got yelled at because he "couldn't even hold threat from a damn ret paladin." I'd judge for the debuff (the official reason for my being there was rolling judgement debuffs), and the auto-attack and judge damage would pull it, and he'd sit on me for 5-6 seconds every time. It was the start of a very long tradition.

Every time I got gear all through T5 and T6, we used DKP at the time and if there is a way to screw with a point-based loot system I will find it, and so I took gear from people who might have got it over me. A couple times I did it specifically because I just wanted to bother them, because they were people who talked about me behind my back constantly and tried their best to exclude me.

When ZA came out and our core bear team had not just one but two non-holy paladins there was a real !@#$storm. There was only one warrior in the guild who could even come close to tanking ZA as well as our prot paladin could, and he wasn't actually a real raider, he was an amazing player but only played a couple hours a week. Eventually the prot paladin left the guild because of the attitude towards him.

It took more than two years and four tiers of sitting in the top five before people stopped complaining about me playing a ret, or taking a ret to heroic and hard content, with another little freak out when it was announced I was first in line for shadowmourne. By then, most of the people who had a problem with me had left, and the rest were just answered by "look at the logs."

MSV yesterday as shockadin was amusing, but also kind of frustrating. It almost felt like a BC-era mage. Four minutes into a boss, out of mana, evo on cooldown and no way to get mana so I'm sitting there autoattacking for SoI procs.
90 Human Paladin
15265
Bah Blood Elves, the only race that could go ret and put up decent numbers in BC

Alliance was stuck with crappy !@# seal of vengance.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
03/25/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Elidra
Eh... not that I think you're being SUPER SRS, or anything, but...

I kind of am. 5min CD on bubble because of Holy. Forbearance because of Holy. SH dispellable because of Holy. Speed of Light sucks because of Holy. The talent tree is half Ret stuff because of Holy. The list goes on.


Speed of light sucks because it sucks. It's sprint with a 25% shorter cooldown and still sucks. AFAIK, holy in pve is better off with poj and in pvp is better off with long arm. I don't really see anyone with speed of light.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15120
Bah Blood Elves, the only race that could go ret and put up decent numbers in BC


ib4slayton :P

blood elves are emo.
i miss seal of blood :(

Speed of light sucks because it sucks. It's sprint with a 25% shorter cooldown and still sucks. AFAIK, holy in pve is better off with poj and in pvp is better off with long arm. I don't really see anyone with speed of light.


really? pretty much every holy paladin i see has speed of light.
Edited by Vladja on 3/25/2013 10:37 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
15265
Hey, when the Alliance got it, I was killing myself all the time on WOTLK nax Gluth

Anyone getting the new Bioshock tomorrow?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
Speed of light sucks because it sucks. It's sprint with a 25% shorter cooldown and still sucks. AFAIK, holy in pve is better off with poj and in pvp is better off with long arm. I don't really see anyone with speed of light.

Exactly. If it had the proper numbers to be a good gap closer, it'd be way OP for Holy.

Therefore, it sucks because of Holy.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
It sucks because Blizzard thinks it doesn't suck. They could easily make it have a secondary effect for ret and prot if they wanted to same way that they added the healing taken bonus to sanctified wrath for prot, if they thought that the talent being underused was an issue.
90 Human Paladin
15265
More frost dk buffs...? Why?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
Because they pretended that frost was going to get a nerf first, and then pretended that DKs were mages!

Hate trying to do the pre-T1 weapon point buying math, they changed it in MoP with the new point values and it works out to odd numbers. Have to save 3500 out of the 7250, so it's safe to spend 3750 points. That just doesn't divide up into the altered point costs for things very well. It's 3x1250 items.. and that sucks. :|

AND CAT ON MY MOUSE ALL MORNING
Edited by Cayse on 3/25/2013 11:46 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
15265
No changes for us it looks like thus far in 5.3 other than our blessings costing less mana
90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
I wouldn't expect any real changes early on, a lot of it most looks like tooltip updates and they'll want to wait until later in the tier so they can get better ideas of how specs are performing.

Disenchanting last season's pvp shoulders because I'm never going to want to transmog myself to look like a priest poorly attempting to disguise myself as a pagoda.

/yay
Edited by Cayse on 3/25/2013 11:51 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Speed of light sucks because it sucks. It's sprint with a 25% shorter cooldown and still sucks. AFAIK, holy in pve is better off with poj and in pvp is better off with long arm. I don't really see anyone with speed of light.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Karvinen/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Thedivine/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Stsulz/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Blessedl%C3%B3l/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Cdewski/advanced

top 5 Holy Paladins on Bloodlust all use Speed of Light. imo Pursuit of Justice can be situationally decent for Holy PvP. never seen a Holy Paladin with Long Arm, and of course Long Arm is the only good Ret PvP talent in the tier

the concept behind the new talent system is much better than the old, but it fails pretty hard for paladin PvP. usually the talents wanted by Ret are unwanted by Holy (Selfless Healer is another great example) and vice versa. i totally agree with Elidra on this stuff

it's what i've been whining about in this thread for the past week:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197582713
Edited by Hafleur on 3/25/2013 12:07 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
so i just broke my headset, by tripping over it's cord and yanking it out of the socket. i'm due for a new one, and this is a perfect excuse to buy one, but any headset i buy online will take a few days to get there, and in order to effectively raid tomorrow i have to have a headset, so i'm going to buy a cheap one at target, and then never bother to go buy a nice one that doesn't hurt my ears and give me headaches.

arrg.
90 Orc Death Knight
16325
The DK changes are tool tip fixes, those have been live since the beginning of 5.2

The talents are pretty cookie cutter in PvP but I see Holy Paladins with Speed of Light all of the time.

Some of your tiers of talents are pretty bad, with limiting choice in regards to retribution. I don't think the talent system fails on a basic level, but there should be at least 2 talents which are attractive in each tier of talents for each specialization.

In PvP I feel there are three tiers which need 'fixing' for retribution. Selfless healer, long arm and prism are pretty much go to talents without any real thought honestly. Honestly fist of justice might as well be included as well because it's fairly rare to run BoG in arena.

While clemency is incredibly popular I really think this tier as a whole is still okay. There are compositions where unbreakable spirit is superior and there are also composition where purity is a better option than clemency. Not every comp you play has a lot of effects that can be dispelled via clemency and some comps purity is just flat out better. We for example run with a resto shaman as our healer and if we run into a dot cleave featuring a lock or a priest, purity is a pretty decent option.

They need to take an active approach at buffing some of these talents (not just for paladins) so they work slightly different for each specialization. If speed of light was a lower CD for retribution only it might be a bit more attractive. If repentance had a CD (10-15 seconds max) but had no cast time for retribution only it might be more attractive.

Things like that would balance some of the talents for individual specializations without making them even more attractive for specializations that already use them.
90 Human Paladin
15265
Tooltip updates? Hmm alright then
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
While clemency is incredibly popular I really think this tier as a whole is still okay. There are compositions where unbreakable spirit is superior and there are also composition where purity is a better option than clemency. Not every comp you play has a lot of effects that can be dispelled via clemency and some comps purity is just flat out better. We for example run with a resto shaman as our healer and if we run into a dot cleave featuring a lock or a priest, purity is a pretty decent option.

i don't see how 15 sec off DP and 2 min 30 sec off bubble can ever be better than a second set of hand spells. double freedom lets you kite more (or lets teammates provide more offensive pressure) which is primarily how ret survives. double HoP means that throughout a game you can bubble, HoP a teammate, and still have HoP for yourself when forbearance drops. double sac dispel is usually useful

purity is only good against DoT cleaves, pretty damn situational i'd say. tier 60 needs as much help as any

the closest thing ret pvp has to a well-balanced tier is tier 75. BoG (tier 30) and EF (tier 45) can be decent alternatives to long arm and selfless healer, but not so much in arena and ret sucks in rbg's anyway
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17610
Fist of Justice should be baseline. In it's place, a talent that adds dmg to FoJ or lets it stun 2 targets. Maybe call it Justice for All!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
Fist of Justice should be baseline. In it's place, a talent that adds dmg to FoJ or lets it stun 2 targets. Maybe call it Justice for All!


\o/

Edit: Also, third talent spec reported on MMO-champ. Which would be awesome...if I had the bag space to even think about attempting such a thing.

Poor druids must be wringing their furry claws right now.
Edited by Jackishi on 3/25/2013 2:38 PM PDT
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