Change Death Strike to unmitigated damage?

1 Tauren Shaman
0
Kanga, I wasn't trying to undermine the amount of damage taken on 25H, merely pointing out that DKs get hit pretty hard, too.
Oh, well, that's what I was pointing out also - it's just that DKs can survive it a lot better than Monks can with Purgatory and better baseline mitigation.

It's definitely HARDER to survive on 25m, sometimes it is up to your healers and for heroic progression you almost have to stack stamina. I think it's fine that way though, those 2 shot situations really don't happen if your healers are good and you communicate tank swaps properly.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Monks, properly played, won't take any unmitigated hits, but when they do, it's pretty much a guaranteed death in heroic, correct?

DKs will obviously take unmitigated hits, but they're not lethal, just scary.

That was the point I was trying to make.
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
The whole point of the mechanic is to let them heal back damage they have taken, they aren't taking mitigated damage.

And even though it has inverse scaling as some have pointed out there's 3 reasons why this doesn't matter at all.
1) Its still healing for a percentage of your damage taken, just since you would have 100k a month ago but only 80k now doesn't mean DS needs to heal that extra 20k, its already there.
2) Blood Shield, while your heals my get smaller (but you stay at higher amount of HP) your mastery is going up with better gear, resulting in bigger blood shields, which since most DKs stack well over 100% heal/blood shield (our dk has 160%ish) any amount of healing that maybe missing will be made up in blood shields
3) Bosses hit harder in each tier. Bottom line, all that extra armor doesn't matter when the base damage for a melee swing goes from 400k to 500k, you'll still see a bigger heal.
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
Monks, properly played, won't take any unmitigated hits, but when they do, it's pretty much a guaranteed death in heroic, correct?
Uh, no, not really. Shuffle itself is really just there to bring Monk "baseline mitigation" to be equal to the other tanks.

Even with Shuffle up Monks taking a string of regular melee hits will take a LOT more damage than any of the other tanks.
1) Its still healing for a percentage of your damage taken, just since you would have 100k a month ago but only 80k now doesn't mean DS needs to heal that extra 20k, its already there.
The issue is that avoidance also scales up, and avoidance can make a big difference. If you avoid all 6 seconds worth of attacks prior to having used DS, you'd have one hell of a weak bubble up for the next really hard hit. This only gets worse when boss melees get stronger.
3) Bosses hit harder in each tier. Bottom line, all that extra armor doesn't matter when the base damage for a melee swing goes from 400k to 500k, you'll still see a bigger heal.
Extra armor makes a big difference. The reason it's not made a big deal out of is because we can't really itemize for more.
DKs will obviously take unmitigated hits, but they're not lethal, just scary.
Not by next tier heroic; it will be lethal, pretty much. The boss melees this tier are only slightly smaller proportionally to that of 25H FL bosses, and they've been scaling up VERY fast since T14.
Edited by Kangamooster on 3/27/2013 1:09 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
The issue is that avoidance also scales up, and avoidance can make a big difference. If you avoid all 6 seconds worth of attacks prior to having used DS, you'd have one hell of a weak bubble up for the next really hard hit. This only gets worse when boss melees get stronger.


DS shield lasts for 12 seconds or so, and stacks with each death strike and absorbs physical damage, unless you didn't DS after the last large hit you took before your avoidance streak then all you need to do is hit an extra ds to refresh/make it larger, not to mention you should be topped off so taking a fully unmitigated hit isn't a huge deal. Not to mention on such a streak if your holding DS you'll have damn close to 5/5 scent of blood stacks.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Not by next tier heroic; it will be lethal, pretty much. The boss melees this tier are only slightly smaller proportionally to that of 25H FL bosses, and they've been scaling up VERY fast since T14.

Eugh.

We'll need another stamina boost, then. Or maybe they'll have to change how our mastery works.

DS shield lasts for 12 seconds or so, and stacks with each death strike and absorbs physical damage, unless you didn't DS after the last large hit you took before your avoidance streak then all you need to do is hit an extra ds to refresh/make it larger, not to mention you should be topped off so taking a fully unmitigated hit isn't a huge deal. Not to mention on such a streak if your holding DS you'll have damn close to 5/5 scent of blood stacks.

There's... so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.

1: Death Strike lasts for 10 seconds, or until the absorb is entirely used. Hint: One DS soaks 50-100% of a boss autoattack, depending on difficulty. We can DS once every 5-8 seconds.
2: Taking an unmitigated hit in 10m normal is about a quarter of my total health... and I stack stamina. In 25H, it's closer to 50%.
3: We NEVER reach 5/5 scent of blood. It takes 5 autoattacks - about 20 seconds of autoattacking - to reach. That's enough time for for our runes to passively regenerate our frost and unholy runes two and a half times over. The average SoB stack count per DS is about 2.
Edited by Krinu on 3/27/2013 12:56 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340

1: Death Strike lasts for 10 seconds, or until the absorb is entirely used. Hint: One DS soaks 50-100% of a boss autoattack, depending on difficulty. We can DS once every 5-8 seconds.
2: Taking an unmitigated hit in 10m normal is about a quarter of my total health... and I stack stamina. In 25H, it's closer to 50%.
3: We NEVER reach 5/5 scent of blood. It takes 5 autoattacks - about 20 seconds of autoattacking - to reach. That's enough time for for our runes to passively regenerate our frost and unholy runes two and a half times over. The average SoB stack count per DS is about 2.


Krinu, with a 3.6 speed weap, it only takes 16 seconds with zero haste and the 10% attack speed raid buff. And they were talking about a streak of 4-6 avoided attacks, which in itself is 6-9 seconds, at least enough time to get 3 stacks, 4 if your last DS was right after the last hit that actually landed.

Not sure if its relevant, but still.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
03/27/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Darpalta
Krinu, with a 3.6 speed weap, it only takes 16 seconds with zero haste and the 10% attack speed raid buff.
DKs usually don't exp cap, although I suspect getting a lot will be unavoidable in T15 gear.

So it would probably take longer than that. :P
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
If we were hit/exp capped, it would take 18 seconds before haste, and most DKs have a little - at the very least, they have the 10% speed from raid buffs.

Between haste and a 10% chance for autoattacks to fail to land (almost exactly what I have with 7.5% expertise and 5% hit), 20 seconds is about right.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340
Oh, right. You guys are weird and don't care about missing.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
It's a good thing we don't, actually. If we needed to hard cap like Paladins do... eugh, we'd be terrible with current baselines. They'd need to bump Blood Shield from 50% of heal baseline to 100% of heal to avoid having us be significantly behind the other tanks.

We also need piles of stamina, because the whole "eat unmitigated hits on a big pool" doesn't work if we don't have a big pool.
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