Are Shamans *That* Badly Off?

88 Draenei Mage
6610
Have been considering rolling another healer, but both guildies and the forums seem to believe that t15 shamans are even worse off than T14 Druids.

Is this true? Are they really 20% behind other classes? If so, I may just reconsider...
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90 Goblin Shaman
9560
No closer to 30 - 40% with NO help in sight. This is how Ghostcrawler seems to what it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14730
Utility tax in full effect. The return of the buff bot, AKA "It's fine as long as you still get a spot, don't care why!" Well at least you help the real healers heal better. If you're lucky, they might not even look down on you for your abysmal output and bench you/shove you over to DPS at every possible opportunity.

I hate to be that guy that cries "reroll" but... HPals and Discos kinda kick massive amounts of !@# in the current raiding environment. Mistweavers, Druids and Holy aren't slouching either. Maybe next tier will be Dragon Soul 2.0, but for now if you wanna feel like you're doing anything besides waiting for your next CD you're playing the wrong class.

Work twice as hard to do lukewarm heals outside of major CDs while fights require heavy movement, spreading, or both. Which is most of T15. GG.
Edited by Leucen on 3/24/2013 7:38 PM PDT
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88 Draenei Mage
6610
No closer to 30 - 40% with NO help in sight. This is how Ghostcrawler seems to what it.


That's...insane.

According to the same guildy though, apparently the Shaman community threatened a Dev IRL a while back, leading to his retirement. Not sure if true or not...but maybe this is why you guys seem to be the dev's least favourite class?

Hope not.
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03/24/2013 07:37 PMPosted by Rèquiem
No closer to 30 - 40% with NO help in sight. This is how Ghostcrawler seems to what it.


That's...insane.

According to the same guildy though, apparently the Shaman community threatened a Dev IRL a while back, leading to his retirement. Not sure if true or not...but maybe this is why you guys seem to be the dev's least favourite class?

Hope not.

That was way long ago in Vanilla. It wasn't a threat per se, but people did wish for the CM to 'get hit by a bus'. It is hardly the reason of Blizzard's actions today, although many like to believe it so. However, they have certainly not forgotten about it as in the last April Fool's (or two years ago's one, I think) in their fake patch notes they made a reference to Bus shock, which is the event you're refering to.
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90 Human Priest
16665
naw, play what's fun for you
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5980
Absorbs need to be toned down. They are killing non-absorb healers.
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90 Troll Shaman
4240
We are in fact, lower in HPS than every other healer, less so in overall healing.

However, we are not gimped enough to be benched quite yet. Especially for progression kills.

I thought I was doing pretty bad because of how low my HPS was vs. other healers in our ToT raids... however, reviewing logs tells more of the full story.

During "clutch" moments on our Meg progression for instance, my healing FAR outshines that of any of our other healers. In essence, I kept the raid from wiping due to my massive burst heals on low hp targets (huray mastery).

Basically, play what you want to play. We are by no means the "best" all around healer right now, but we still have our place, and it's more than what your hearing about mana bots.

Once you get stuff on farm and are just blowing through content though, shammies are probably the weak link as far as heals go currently.
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90 Goblin Shaman
8435
Absorbs need to be toned down. They are killing non-absorb healers.


^ this is part of it. I play a disc priest mainly this expac and I see every raid how my absorbs are affecting my other healers. I try to explain to the shaman that he's doing fine but I don't think he understands it's not him. Poor guy is so self conscience about it- makes me feel bad.

The other half is tier 15 and shaman's lack of real spread healing mechanics.

naw, play what's fun for you


But I totally agree with this statement. I just hope the next raid isn't a bunch of stacked mechanics to make shamans look good. They need an actual fix- not a band aid raid.
Edited by Jujubiju on 3/25/2013 3:01 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Are they that bad... no.
Do they lack a tool to help them heal spread mechanics that is on par with cascade/CoH/PoH or Rejuv/WG or Renewing-Uplift or EF/LoD/HS... yeah.
Do they lack a tool to help them heal forced movement situations like Lei Shens winds... yeah.
Do they lack absorbs to help make Lei Shen static shock soak be less Gibby? Yeah.
Do they have a personal survival toolkit (DR cd's) that only looks decent when compared with resto druids thanks to both classes being good in pvp. Thus having issues personally surviving mechancs that hit for max health... yeah.

Do they do really well at healign stacked, continuous damage. Yeah.
Do they contribute a ton of mana in a 25 man setting when the continuous damage drains mana. Yeah.

Do they have better raid CD's then other healers? Not really when you compare spike healing of Disc/Pally. Pallies have wings/guardian/favor in addition mana burst (HR increased usage) + light's hammer (which does 1/3-2/5 of HTT, with 1/3 the CD).

I wouldn't roll a shaman for 10 man raiding at this point. You can do it. It won't be as good was MW/Pally/Priest. But you'll get through stuff eventually (you might need a few more ilvls). For 25's having 2 shamans on the roster is fine, but on some fights you'll be best off sitting one if you have a FotM class available to take their spot just because some mechanics are cruel.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10200
I for one have already started a new Healer, Were just lacking so bad that were only use for are Cd's HTT/MTT/Ascend/Link(almost worthless cause of the lack of stacking in the raid) I have started monk due to them being new and very fun I could play disc / Hpally but dont find them as fun so my advice is Keep playing your sham but Start leveling a Different toon cause its not looking to good for us unless blizz does something
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90 Draenei Paladin
6525
Love my Shammy....but as you can see...rerolled QQ (not that it really matters, Im not cutting edge progression at all)
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90 Undead Death Knight
7345
Absorbs need to be toned down. They are killing non-absorb healers.


on charts, to be specific

healing isn't really governed by charts but honestly the vast majority of wow players just look at heal charts to see how you are doing and to compare you to other healers

sad but true, you will be often judged by the charts in comparison to others. Absorbs currently dominate charts because they snipe all the heals. So regardless of non-absorb heals doing the same thing a fraction of a second later, the absorb gets all the credit on the chart.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
03/25/2013 11:59 AMPosted by Kugkug
Absorbs need to be toned down. They are killing non-absorb healers.


on charts, to be specific

healing isn't really governed by charts but honestly the vast majority of wow players just look at heal charts to see how you are doing and to compare you to other healers

sad but true, you will be often judged by the charts in comparison to others. Absorbs currently dominate charts because they snipe all the heals. So regardless of non-absorb heals doing the same thing a fraction of a second later, the absorb gets all the credit on the chart.
The thing is, especially for shaman, those heals can't and don't land a fraction of a second later. It takes a lot of time for healing rain to do it's thing. 11 seconds not including the cast time or the earthliving ticks.
When the raid is continuously bombarded healing rain is great (IQ for example). However when the raid is intermittently smacked with potentially lethal damage but not enough to push high average HPS numbers... and you only have a "fraction of second to get people to 100% health" like what happens for "Soaking then Static Shock on transitions on Lei Shen" not so much. Much rather be able to PW:S everyone while I'm sitting around bored, which absorbs most of the soaking, then just pop an auto-crit PoH to get everyone to >100% health to keep the static shock from being lethal.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5015
There was an old saying for shaman back in vanilla days

"Jack of all trades, gimp of all raids"
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90 Draenei Shaman
15795
Me .. yea i ranked on Heroic Jinrokh did 69k hp :D i am 64th ... Our priest: i did 99k hps and didnt rank at all .. wtf priests need buffs.
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90 Tauren Druid
7700
03/24/2013 07:37 PMPosted by Rèquiem
No closer to 30 - 40% with NO help in sight. This is how Ghostcrawler seems to what it.


That's...insane.

According to the same guildy though, apparently the Shaman community threatened a Dev IRL a while back, leading to his retirement. Not sure if true or not...but maybe this is why you guys seem to be the dev's least favourite class?

Hope not.


busshock mofo.

yeah it was the end of vanilla. in shammys defence they did get really screwed.
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90 Human Warlock
17000
03/24/2013 07:37 PMPosted by Rèquiem
According to the same guildy though, apparently the Shaman community threatened a Dev IRL a while back, leading to his retirement.

CM, and it did not.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
I honestly love healing with Shamans. I know, I know-- look at recount and they look wussy, right?

Wrong.

When my pre-emptive measures fail to cover the raid for healing (which is inevitable), a shaman has all the tools to help me bring those health bars up.

What they lack in numbers on the charts is not the problem. It's their mobility. After asking about a glyph choice of a fellow healer, I took it upon myself to check out more about shammy healing. It really does seem it's less about hpally and disc bubbles getting in the way of their mastery, and more about the fact that raids are moving every which way and shammys just don't have as many tools to compensate.

But they are not crappy by any means. And anyone who says "just look at their hps!" should have recount/skada permanently removed from their computer.
Edited by Naérdriel on 3/26/2013 5:14 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
16540
However, we are not gimped enough to be benched quite yet. Especially for progression kills.


Yeah, yeah we are. As soon as you can't get more than 3-4 people in a Healing Rain, you might as well bring a monk, or a druid, or anything else.
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