5.3 - What do the PvP guilds think?

100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
Jelly SWAG, what do you guys think about these PvP changes coming up?

What about the alliance PvP Guild(s)?
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
8115
Source:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9331806/PvP_Gear_in_Patch_53-3_25_2013

Incoming 5.3 Gear Changes
With all of this in mind, we’re making some pretty dramatic changes to PvP gear and the PvP environment in 5.3:

  • Base Resilience will be set to 65% for all characters level 85 and higher
  • Resilience will be removed from nearly all PvP gear
  • Players will still be able to use Resilience gems and enchants
  • PvP power will remain exclusively on PvP gear
  • PvP set bonuses that currently provide Resilience will now provide PvP Power
  • Healers and hybrid-casters will benefit to a greater degree from PvP Power, and Battle Fatigue will increase to make PvP gear superior for healers.
  • Conquest gear will be increased to item level 496 (up from 493).
  • Elite gear will be decreased to item level 496. This gear will essentially become a prestige upgrade.
  • The Big Change: We will be adding an item level ceiling to gear in unrated Battlegrounds, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas
  • All gear will have its item level scaled down to 496 (Conquest gear item level). This includes even Conquest items that exceed the ilevel ceiling, such as weapons.

  • Short-term it seems like good changes on paper. Long-term my only concern is that PvP Power will continue to increase while Resilience remains more or less the same, leading towards players taking more damage. Furthermore, this change will probably cause some confusion with healers and tanks specifically, as they're not as inclined to stack PvP Power as a damage dealing player would; which could lead to PvE trinkets becoming "mandatory" once again for healers or tanks.

    If they care about first impressions with regards to players dipping their feet into PvP, I don't see why they don't implement some of these changes to levels below 85, as that's when players will most likely try out PvP for the first time.
    Edited by Rilaks on 3/26/2013 5:17 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Troll Death Knight
    9120
    lol Alliance pvp guilds.

    But seriously, we're gonna get through it. How many times has pvp gear changed over the years? If it's still broken, they'll change it again in a few months. Just roll with it and adapt.

    It feels dicey for my pvp tank, but I'm sure that'll work itself out too.
    Edited by Isïs on 3/26/2013 7:06 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Priest
    11610
    Personally, I'm quite interested to see if they implement that change they mentioned a while back about getting increased Conquest Points for starting a season late? That should make playing the game (from a pvp standpoint) a lot easier and I'm guessing more people might feel like coming back to the game if they don't have to make the grind the entire season in order to be competitive.
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    Allorah, I am not sure that will really matter so much with the 5.3 changes. The only boost you will be getting from PvP gear now is PvP Power, which will slightly counter the baseline resilience given to everyone.

    To me, it seems somewhat half-assed; a partial fix to a problem that still leaves the overall problem they are trying to fix there. I really wish they would either leave it as-is with minor changes or just go all the way with the changes and remove PvP gear, CP, and HP from the game then reward JP and VP from PvP.
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Priest
    11610
    03/27/2013 10:04 AMPosted by Whaang
    Allorah, I am not sure that will really matter so much with the 5.3 changes. The only boost you will be getting from PvP gear now is PvP Power, which will slightly counter the baseline resilience given to everyone.


    Are you saying that PvE gear will be equal to PvP gear with the patch?
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    Are you saying that PvE gear will be equal to PvP gear with the patch?

    Lets break it down;
    ∙ For equal iLevel gear what are the current differences in PvP? PVP Resilience and Power.
    ∙ Technically gear will be the same iLevel (496) due to the scaling down of higher iLevel.
    ∙ Removal of PvP Resilience means less reason to go with PvP gear.
    ∙ A large % of total PvP Power comes from 1-2 items (weapons).
    ∙ With a flat 65% resilience on everyone PvP Power will be less noticeable.
    ∙ There will be no reason to "grind" BGs and Arena past a few key pieces of gear.

    So I would ask the questions;
    ∙ Why do we need PvP Power, PvP Resilience, PvP Gear, HP, and CP anymore?
    ∙ Why not give players a new avenue to gear their character for ALL content; reward JP & VP.
    ∙ Why not add more incentive for players to PvP; fluff items that never loose value to a player. Like decals that can be added to tabards (ie. Blood Splatters or Burn Marks).
    Reply Quote
    The difference is pvp power is not part of item budget.
    PVE Weapon: 100 hit
    100 int
    100 stam

    it's got a budget of 300. A pvp weapon with the same budget:

    100 hit
    100 int
    100 stam
    4850 pvp power.

    But PVP gear is kept a tier behind current PVE gear to keep us from walking in and dominating PVE. It's never been just about keeping PVE out of PVP.. it works both ways. In vanilla a GM/HWL Warrior in pvp gear put up ridiculous pve numbers.

    So it's been rare that you were ever fighting someone PVE geared in the same Ilvl as you. They were always a bit ahead with stat budgets and it still didn't work. With the scaling, the gear will be the same stat wise(ish) but one will have a bunch power on it that makes you do 30% extra dmg. The removal of resil, and upping baseline will let them actually add a lot more pvp power then they are using now. When they can assume everyone in the game is absorbing more, they can take more.

    Right now it works like "I'm in pvp gear, you are in nothing.. I may get to my 3rd global before you are dead". The new system is going to be more "I'm in pvp gear, you are not.. You may actually be able to cast, run, feel like you are participating.. You will just do no dmg to me"

    This is why the big talk right now is around RBG's and Tanks. They aren't concerned with their output. There is worry that on a stat-stat level, tank gear will outperform what we have now even with scaling. There is a fix in the works, and there are a lot of ways it could be done.

    The other concern really is Trinkets. It's not as easy to scale procs and on use mechanics. What works at one level of gear can be useless or way overpowered at another. But the latest batch of trinkets were fixed and modified.. and hopefully it continues.

    This wont solve everything. But it gives breathing room to start changing things like instant heals, interrupts, blankets, cc chains, kiting and general annoying things we all hate. There are plans to do vanity things, more mounts, titles, fun stuff for pvp as replacements. Blizz hasn't been forthcoming exactly with what those are yet.

    In the end though.. anyone who is anyone is already playing with 65% mitigation. This just removes a variable in the system to make tuning and balancing it all a lot easier. This will also, in my opinion.. smooth it out for everyone. Resil does not seem like the obvious stat choice to many inexperienced players. From time to time I still meet "experienced" ones who insist power or their primary is "better". I would defiantly consider playing a healer again with this. Right now I despise dumping mana pools into someone telling me "50% mitigation is plenty, I hit hard."

    Long story short: Right now the numbers to get you 1.2% extra dmg in pvp power gives you about 12% damage mitigation. I say about because I'm at work, and don't have them in front of me. It's a silly system, with no really options. Get rid of it, and lets move from there.

    It may seem as though I'm supporting blizzards choices. I wish I could chi burst them all to the face for the 20k dmg it does. I despise them for all they do to my Ninja Turtle David Bowie Karate Kicking EoTS Jumping now worthless !@#. I will continue to be unconcerned with dmg output, and focus on ring of peace.
    Edited by Ziggystrdust on 3/28/2013 8:29 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    Allorah, I am not sure that will really matter so much with the 5.3 changes. The only boost you will be getting from PvP gear now is PvP Power, which will slightly counter the baseline resilience given to everyone.

    To me, it seems somewhat half-assed; a partial fix to a problem that still leaves the overall problem they are trying to fix there. I really wish they would either leave it as-is with minor changes or just go all the way with the changes and remove PvP gear, CP, and HP from the game then reward JP and VP from PvP.


    The problem isn't/wasn't that PVP power isn't good enough. Resil scaled to well. PVP power doesn't "counter" resilience. Blizzard got stuck. We stacked resil like madmen. PVP power seemed like it wasn't doing anything. They couldn't buff the weapons or we'd be #1 for PVE gear. They couldn't just ramp up pvp power, baseline would do nothing but get exploded. You can't nerf resilience or current PVE gear does become viable. This isn't half-assed, it all has to be done at once or you affect some other portion of the game. I like and appreciate the pve/pvp separation and gear.. and am glad they are working to maintain it before it got out of control.
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    03/28/2013 08:44 PMPosted by Ziggystrdust
    The problem isn't/wasn't that PVP power isn't good enough. Resil scaled to well.

    PvP Resilience is a stat so the developers can attempt to balance out how quickly we can kill each other.
    PvP Power is a stat so developers can attempt to balance out things that PvP Resilience didn't balance out.

    Both stats are there in order to attempt to balance out play, at this point in time at least, and both stats are essentially NOT truly balancing out PvP Play.

    So why, if you are removing PvP Resilience essentially, should you keep PvP Power? This is where the "half-assed" remark comes from. They are attempting to balance something out, but why not just actually balance it out?
    Reply Quote
    They aren't removing it essentially. They are closing the gap. Right now if you just start you have 40% mitigation. The difference between that and say, 68% mitigation (the current curve DR cap) is absolutely beyond outrageous. The reality of the situation is that the difference between 65% mitigation is a large diff from 68%.

    You have 584,855 health with 52.15% resil. Your "effective health" is 1,181,407. That is how much unmitigated (target dummy raw) dmg I would need to do to you to bring you down, cause you are talking about half dmg.

    Now my squish monk !@# has 368,537 at 67% resil. My effective health is 1,135,093. So me just using resil gems I've put myself within 50k raw dmg of a blood dk.

    The scaling is ridiculous, but not everyone understands how % reduction turns into effective health. Simply put, you take 50% Less damage doubling your health. I take 67% tripling my health. When you start to consider the impact this has. Every 1 of my HP is actually worth 3 dmg. So if I take a 50k heal, you have to do 150k raw dmg to take that heal back. If you take that 50k heal I only need to do 100k raw to you. The higher our health gets, the worse this gets.

    It has to be baseline. Those that don't understand how it works (you can't be expected to, it's not upfront like it reads) don't stack it, and wonder why they get pounded into the ground. Once we level the playing field with dmg coming in blizz can start dealing with the damage going out.

    Unless you like the idea of me being able to take just as much dmg from the same person as you. :)

    If it takes Warrior A 100 mortal strikes to kill you. It's going to take the very same warrior about 100 to kill me.

    This is not counting other factors like armor, spec, all of that. You can see very quickly how complicated "balance" can become when it comes to raw numbers. Anything variable they can normalize will help.
    Reply Quote
    90 Goblin Priest
    8115
    Why not give players a new avenue to gear their character for ALL content; reward JP & VP.

    While to a certain extent you can already acquire PvE gear through PvP via purchasing JP with HP, I think it would be a terrible idea to unify the currency. You would then see a multitude of players dipping into other content to acquire different gear. I can just imagine how many AFKers there would be in BGs for PvE gear (you cant AFK a dungeon to the extent players AFK BGs).

    The current system promotes PvE gameplay to acquire PvE gear, PvP gameplay to acquire PvP gear, while providing the option of both to acquire different kinds of gear, albeit at a much slower pace; the current currency system is fine.

    03/28/2013 08:21 PMPosted by Ziggystrdust
    The difference is pvp power is not part of item budget.

    Ditto the above.

    Malevolent Gladiator's Mooncloth Gloves
    Guardian Serpent Handwraps

    The PvE gloves have 80 more int, 14 more spirit, and 39 more haste rating.
    The PvP gloves have 322 more pvp power; but it has a gem socket, which could easily make up the difference in int.
    Since gear will have a cap in any PvP environment, the primary stat disparity is no long a concern.

    Why not add more incentive for players to PvP; fluff items that never loose value to a player. Like decals that can be added to tabards (ie. Blood Splatters or Burn Marks).

    I believe they plan on doing just that, maybe not decals, but something along those lines. Furthermore, I recall a time when the only incentive to PvP was a rank and both PvE and PvP gear was worn. While I'm not a fan of having to grind PvE content to remain competitive, this notion that gear is the incentive to PvP only looks silly in my eyes.

    Ultimately the only complication these changes create is for healers and tanks, as they're not as concerned with damage output as dps, and so only minor adjustments need to be made to correct them.
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    03/31/2013 12:34 PMPosted by Rilaks
    While to a certain extent you can already acquire PvE gear through PvP via purchasing JP with HP, I think it would be a terrible idea to unify the currency. You would then see a multitude of players dipping into other content to acquire different gear. I can just imagine how many AFKers there would be in BGs for PvE gear (you cant AFK a dungeon to the extent players AFK BGs).

    So lets start here; this is the EXACT reason they are doing what they are doing... they are trying to get more players involved in PvP and flatten out the differences (balance) in PvP that PvP Stats cause. But they are also hanging onto some PvP stats, why?

    I agree with you that AFK "players" are basically jerks who ruin the experience, be it PvE or PvP. Using AFKers as an excuse to NOT do this is a bad argument though; you should be asking Blizzard to come up with a better way of tracking AFK/BOT players and punishing them appropriately. I would totally love a player voted star ranking system of sorts; obviously with the kinks worked out.

    The current system promotes PvE gameplay to acquire PvE gear, PvP gameplay to acquire PvP gear, while providing the option of both to acquire different kinds of gear, albeit at a much slower pace; the current currency system is fine.

    The current system is actually "not fine"; as corralling players into 2 different styles of play through play style specific gear advancement is a bad idea. When a player has to spend X time gearing in one mode and then Y time gearing in another mode it becomes a hassle for some and they drop one or the other. What I am asking for would simplify this but keep the rewarding feeling of both PvE and PvP.

    I believe they plan on doing just that, maybe not decals, but something along those lines. Furthermore, I recall a time when the only incentive to PvP was a rank and both PvE and PvP gear was worn. While I'm not a fan of having to grind PvE content to remain competitive, this notion that gear is the incentive to PvP only looks silly in my eyes.

    The incentive to PvP for most, should be the fun of it. In order to draw more people into PvP things were added initially and we see changes, more changes, and even more changes in trying to balance those things out. As noted above by Ziggystrdust with the % based curves; as soon as players in general figure this out the developers must respond by trying to fix that disparity. Back in the day the fix was to add PvP Resilince, then came PvP Power, and now PvP Resilience is going out the door (mostly), and we are left with them attempting to balance through PvP Power.

    And we go back to my initial thought of... "Why have PvP gear AT ALL?"

    Without PvP gear, PvP stats, HP, or CP in the game and with the Gear iLevel squash while in PvP instances; we are left with a much more balanced playing field in most PvP areas of the game. So then the next question would be; what are some fun items/things we can reward players with for doing PvP?

    And to attempt to make it clear - I am not exactly against what Blizzard is doing, I just want them to take it one step further to completion and actually truly get as close to balanced as they can. And then reward players with long lasting things that make it really worth while for ALL.
    Edited by Whaang on 4/1/2013 2:45 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Priest
    11610
    And we go back to my initial thought of... "Why have PvP gear AT ALL?"

    Without PvP gear, PvP stats, HP, or CP in the game and with the Gear iLevel squash while in PvP instances; we are left with a much more balanced playing field in most PvP areas of the game. So then the next question would be; what are some fun items/things we can reward players with for doing PvP?

    And to attempt to make it clear - I am not exactly against what Blizzard is doing, I just want them to take it one step further to completion and actually truly get as close to balanced as they can. And then reward players with long lasting things that make it really worth while for ALL.


    I can, to some extent, see what you are saying. My question at this point is how do you acquire the gear?

    If you need to do high end raiding to acquire the best gear, there must be a system for those who pvp to be able to do the same. The answer I can see coming from any pver would be to simply have the best gear come from the highest arena or rbg rating. In theory this makes sense, but in practice it discourages pvp from any but the highest rated players (if you can't get the gear and you're competing directly against players who do have it, you're more likely to simply give up). Another argument against this system would be that dragons don't scale gear-wise, but players do, so on, so forth.

    Now that I sound like I'm arguing with myself, let's take a look at the other end of the coin. If you make it easy for the pvpers to gear up (by simply achieving max gear through honor) and the pvers have to raid to get their gear, all that pvers and pvpers alike will do is bgs to gear up and half the pvers would quit because all they cared about to begin with was gearing up through killing dragons.

    As it stands, pvping to gain optimal pvp gear and pveing for optimal pve gear allows for the discrepancy between gear to remain intact, which actually keeps the game interesting for both sides. YES, it takes a huge time investment to gear for both, as I took it, that was your original point (?) . However, if you made it easier to gear for both, you might see some dramatic changes to how the game is enjoyed by both sides. In my opinion, most pvers would be disappointed to have their gear farmable through pvp, and vice versa.
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    04/01/2013 10:06 PMPosted by Alloráh
    I can, to some extent, see what you are saying. My question at this point is how do you acquire the gear?

    Was that not clear enough in my post above? Ending of post #5.

    For anyone who may be too lazy to scroll up and reread; remove HP and CP from PvP and instead reward JP and VP from it.

    Essentially, I am asking them to go all-in with the change and just correct all the issues now instead of applying band-aide, over band-aide, over band-aide, etc...

    Gamer designers tend to over complicate things.

    04/01/2013 10:06 PMPosted by Alloráh
    In my opinion, most pvers would be disappointed to have their gear farmable through pvp, and vice versa.

    And doing dailies or running the same god-forsaken heroics/scenarios every day is a PvE players' idea of a wet dream? I am pretty certain having ANOTHER avenue for gaining JP/VP would be appreciated... and hell it would draw more people into the PvP side of the game.
    Edited by Whaang on 4/2/2013 10:47 AM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Goblin Priest
    8115
    For anyone who may be too lazy to scroll up and reread; remove HP and CP from PvP and instead reward JP and VP from it.

    So what you're essentially saying is that PvE gear is the only type of gear we should have to wear for any type of gameplay? Sorry, but I'm sure I can speak for most PvPers when I say that I don't want to have to PvE in order to PvP, we did enough of that in WotLK.

    The only reason a player shouldn't wear PvP gear with this change is if they're a tank. That being said, I'm sure they're going to make adjustments so that PvP gear stays relevant for tanks in PvP.

    The current system is actually "not fine"; as corralling players into 2 different styles of play through play style specific gear advancement is a bad idea. When a player has to spend X time gearing in one mode and then Y time gearing in another mode it becomes a hassle for some and they drop one or the other. What I am asking for would simplify this but keep the rewarding feeling of both PvE and PvP.

    You think the system is flawed because it takes too long to gear up for both PvE and PvP? I'd rather it take too long than it be too easy; this line of thinking is probably what led to the badge system (i.e. predecessor to current point system) which instantly made epic gear less epic.

    It took me only 4-5 days (over a two week period) to get a full set of pvp gear; if you consider that a hassle then I get the impression that the current point system has spoiled you.
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    04/02/2013 04:27 PMPosted by Rilaks
    So what you're essentially saying is that PvE gear is the only type of gear we should have to wear for any type of gameplay? Sorry, but I'm sure I can speak for most PvPers when I say that I don't want to have to PvE in order to PvP, we did enough of that in WotLK.

    And again, we devolve to people not reading the words placed in front of them and instead thinking they know what is being said without fully reading/understanding.

    If PvP were to reward JP and VP, and you could use said rewards to buy gear... why in the world would you think a PvP player would be forced into PvE?

    04/02/2013 04:27 PMPosted by Rilaks
    The only reason a player shouldn't wear PvP gear with this change is if they're a tank. That being said, I'm sure they're going to make adjustments so that PvP gear stays relevant for tanks in PvP.

    Actually, I think once people have their PvP 2 set bonus and their weapon(s)... they will seek out whatever item nets them the most through gemming & PvP Power on items.

    04/02/2013 04:27 PMPosted by Rilaks
    You think the system is flawed because it takes too long to gear up for both PvE and PvP?

    Absolutely not the case; can cap 1800 CP in about 1-3 hours. Capping VP however takes time; and while most PvE players funnel their attentions into gaining VP... you might actually entice some of them to play PvP if it rewarded VP instead. No, you don't think?
    Edited by Whaang on 4/2/2013 5:28 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Goblin Priest
    8115
    And again, we devolve to people not reading the words placed in front of them and instead thinking they know what is being said without fully reading/understanding.

    Perhaps I should have posed that statement as a question...oh wait, I did :)

    I will simply quote your own words and you can argue with yourself about what you did and did not write:
    Without PvP gear, PvP stats, HP, or CP in the game and with the Gear iLevel squash while in PvP instances; we are left with a much more balanced playing field in most PvP areas of the game.

    Well, "without PvP gear" we are left with just PvE gear.

    If PvP were to reward JP and VP, and you could use said rewards to buy gear... why in the world would you think a PvP player would be forced into PvE?

    You're assuming BiS gear for PvP would be available through vendors; it stands to reason that several pieces would require raiding for when item level isn't an applicable comparison (i.e. Trinkets).

    Actually, I think once people have their PvP 2 set bonus and their weapon(s)... they will seek out whatever item nets them the most through gemming & PvP Power on items.

    4 piece set bonuses for some classes are imperative. At the same item level, PvP and PvE gear yield the same primary stats, but PvP gear has PvP Power which doesn't count towards an item's budget, which makes PvP gear better than PvE gear for dps and healers, we've already pointed that out to you.

    Absolutely not the case; can cap 1800 CP in about 1-3 hours. Capping VP however takes time; and while most PvE players funnel their attentions into gaining VP... you might actually entice some of them to play PvP if it rewarded VP instead. No, you don't think?

    You exclude the fact that players who PvE also acquire gear through drops in heroics and raids, they're not nearly as dependent on earning points for gear as those who PvP. Furthermore, you might want to consider the possibility that some players just don't like PvP because it's PvP, they'd rather fight dragons. I'm the complete opposite, I'd rather fight players than kill dragons, it certainly isn't because gearing up takes too much time for PvE. I may even go as far to say that PvP is inherently more difficult than PvE, but that's a debate for another thread.

    I'm not trying to generalize player's reasons for disliking content, but you're recommending changes to the point system for all the wrong reasons. The most common and prevalent reasons I've heard my PvE friends comment on why they don't PvP is for the following reasons: "I'm not good at it", "I die really fast", and "Class imbalance". I think the first two reasons are directly correlated to one another, whereas the last reason will likely always fluctuate. However, with this change players will live longer and therefore will have more time to practice and improve in this new environment. I would take it a step further and try to improve PvP below level 85 (first impressions impact PvP activity), as players will more likely try out PvP at those levels than wait till they hit level 85, it doesn't make sense to think otherwise.
    Edited by Rilaks on 4/3/2013 8:27 AM PDT
    Reply Quote
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    16670
    04/03/2013 08:21 AMPosted by Rilaks
    Well, "without PvP gear" we are left with just PvE gear.

    Without HP/CP and instead being rewarded JP/VP in PvP; PvP players would gain access to gear through PvP. Again read the WHOLE thing instead of cherry picking one thing and quoting it out of full context.

    You're assuming BiS gear for PvP would be available through vendors; it stands to reason that several pieces would require raiding for when item level isn't an applicable comparison (i.e. Trinkets).

    With the automatic iLevel squash in BGs, RBGs, and Arena the only real difference from raid loot may be the number of sockets on some pieces or set bonuses. So yeah, you make a point here that raiders would have a slight bonus over those that don’t… the biggest issue here would be the set bonuses (maybe automatically disable them from the iLevel squash).

    4 piece set bonuses for some classes are imperative. At the same item level, PvP and PvE gear yield the same primary stats, but PvP gear has PvP Power which doesn't count towards an item's budget, which makes PvP gear better than PvE gear for dps and healers, we've already pointed that out to you.

    Well, with just PvP Power on the items it does bring in the question as to whether or not some set bonuses from the PvE gear are going to trump the PvP Power on all items. It is going to be interesting gearing for PvP in 5.3, in its current form.

    You exclude the fact that players who PvE also acquire gear through drops in heroics and raids, they're not nearly as dependent on earning points for gear as those who PvP.

    Risk vs. Reward takes into consideration time involved usually.

    It is much easier/quicker to gain a full set of gear in PvP. One can spend a night or two and end up with a full set of HP gear. Gear from CP only comes slower only because of the weekly 1800/2200 cap.

    Furthermore, you might want to consider the possibility that some players just don't like PvP because it's PvP, they'd rather fight dragons.

    Obviously; but you might want to consider the possibility that there are some out there that don’t like to PvP with such a disparity in gear. I am not saying Blizzard should try to force PvE players into PvP or vice-versa… but it would be nice if they made PvP more appealing to a larger audience. Who would that target audience be? The people already playing PvP or the people playing PvE?

    I may even go as far to say that PvP is inherently more difficult than PvE, but that's a debate for another thread.

    RBGs, 3s, 5s can be more difficult than some of the PvE content. But once you have learned a good portion of it, and begin to react to what others are doing, it becomes a lot easier. Sadly, as you pointed out in an earlier post, AFKers in normal BGs really suck the life outta it there.

    "I'm not good at it"

    Practice makes one better…

    "I die really fast"

    Gear disparity, rushing into a crowd, not using the right tactics…

    "Class imbalance"

    This is a given, but becomes an exponential problem with PvP Resilience and PvP Power.

    I would take it a step further and try to improve PvP below level 85

    I hope they squash iLevel to appropriate levels for those lower level brackets too.

    Again, I don’t want Blizzard to force players into PvP or PvE… I just want them to make PvP more appealing to the crowd (larger) who doesn’t play it right now (and keep it appealing to those that do play it now).

    It is now less appealing to me because of the downgrade incoming for the 512ilevel PvP gear.
    Reply Quote
    90 Goblin Priest
    8115
    Without HP/CP and instead being rewarded JP/VP in PvP; PvP players would gain access to gear through PvP. Again read the WHOLE thing instead of cherry picking one thing and quoting it out of full context.

    What "whole" thing? After that quote you go on to talk about "fun things" to be rewarded in PvP. Prior to that quote, you're asking why they're leaving PvP stats in the game. What essentially makes PvP gear different are its PvP stats (not including set bonuses). You've been suggesting the removal of all PvP stats rather than just some, which leaves the difference between PvP gear and PvE gear (after your suggestion) at mere set bonuses. Regardless of where players buy gear or what currency they use, the "PvP" gear will essentially be PvE gear because of the suggestions you've been reiterating.

    Hell, as far as off set pieces are concerned they'd be exactly the same as those sold by the JP/VP vendor without the presence of PvP Power, in which case Blizzard probably wouldn't even implement them in the game as they'd only take up space (you could visit the JP/VP vendor for your PvP gear). This line of thinking only creates a system in which PvPers will become increasingly more dependent on PvE; sockets, trinkets, and weapons will cause a disparity between "PvP" gear and PvE gear, we'd essentially be going back in time to Vanilla/BC/WotLK.

    The only thing your suggestion does is make it easier to gear for PvE, and frankly that problem (if it can even be considered one) should be resolved within PvE.

    So yeah, you make a point here that raiders would have a slight bonus over those that don’t… the biggest issue here would be the set bonuses (maybe automatically disable them from the iLevel squash).

    Now we're disabling set bonuses...your solution only creates more problems, and the only problem that needs to be resolved is making PvP gear better than PvE gear for PvP tanks.

    Well, with just PvP Power on the items it does bring in the question as to whether or not some set bonuses from the PvE gear are going to trump the PvP Power on all items. It is going to be interesting gearing for PvP in 5.3, in its current form.

    Fortunately that only concerns main set pieces, not off pieces (bracers, belt, etc.).

    It is much easier/quicker to gain a full set of gear in PvP. One can spend a night or two and end up with a full set of HP gear. Gear from CP only comes slower only because of the weekly 1800/2200 cap.

    Again, if it takes too long to get a full PvE set, then that's an issue to be handled within PvE itself.

    Obviously; but you might want to consider the possibility that there are some out there that don’t like to PvP with such a disparity in gear. I am not saying Blizzard should try to force PvE players into PvP or vice-versa… but it would be nice if they made PvP more appealing to a larger audience. Who would that target audience be? The people already playing PvP or the people playing PvE?

    The major disparity between PvE and PvP gear was resilience, and since they're base-lining that, the disparity has been minimized by a large portion.

    I agree that they should try and make PvP more appealing, hence why low level PvP needs to be monitored more than it has been. If you look at low level dungeons, they're quite easy even for a new player, because they're designed to be forgiving. In PvE, the room for error decreases as a player's level increases, but that isn't the case with PvP, and the majority of players will first try out PvP before ever reaching level 85 (which is where this base-line resilience begins to take into effect). Therefore, if they apply this same formula to low-level PvP that they do with low-level PvE, I'm sure PvP would appeal to a greater number of people.

    I think changing which spells and abilities are available at specific levels would help even out PvP for lower-levels; it's not really a consideration at capped-level because you have all spells and abilities at that point. For instance, spells and abilities that create distance (i.e. Disengage) should be available at the same level of spells and abilities that close distance (i.e. Sprint), or snares should be available for all classes at the same level (for those who have them), changes along those lines.
    Edited by Rilaks on 4/3/2013 7:42 PM PDT
    Reply Quote

    Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

    Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

    Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

    Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

    Forums Code of Conduct

    Report Post # written by

    Reason
    Explain (256 characters max)
    Submit Cancel

    Reported!

    [Close]