Ret pvp

90 Undead Rogue
NMB
5395
Are ret pallys any good for pvp, Mainly bgs, yet? Thinking of rolling a ret but I know they used to be puss

Ty
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90 Pandaren Monk
5855
Not really the most viable for RBGs, any ret taken is a DKor ranged DPS lost. Additionally, they are incredibly boring and seem to have an identity crises, doing some ranged damage, some healing, some bubbling, and some melee damage, but doing almost none of them well.
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92 Human Paladin
13090
Not really the most viable for RBGs, any ret taken is a DKor ranged DPS lost. Additionally, they are incredibly boring and seem to have an identity crises, doing some ranged damage, some healing, some bubbling, and some melee damage, but doing almost none of them well.


Pretty accurate.
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90 Draenei Paladin
6175
Not really the most viable for RBGs, any ret taken is a DKor ranged DPS lost. Additionally, they are incredibly boring and seem to have an identity crises, doing some ranged damage, some healing, some bubbling, and some melee damage, but doing almost none of them well.


thats a bleak outlook.

identity crisis or versatile?

most melee are poor choices for RBG's, thats not a ret problem.

Boring is subjective. I have more fun on my Ret than I do on my DK/War/Hunter/Feral. Perhaps this is why I have two of them... I like to burst, have good survivability and be able to support my allies. Ret does all of these very well.

Ret is great for Random BG's, perhaps one of the best specs, being able to burst down noobs, drop massive off heals and keep themselves alive.

Ret is great for low rated arena for capping points, I solo cap my points every week running twos and I am usually above 50% win rate (low rating, whatever Im not that good, but I can do this much more easily as ret than on my dk or war, the only other two that I solo cap)

and lastly, ret is good for WPVP and duels, when played properly there are only a few specs that can give ret a hard time and ret doesnt really have hard counters like most other classes do.
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92 Human Paladin
13090
I like to burst, have good survivability and be able to support my allies. Ret does all of these very well.


Ret has some of the worst burst and survivability. I have no idea what kind of drugs you've been taking lately. Our support abilities are still pretty good, but you're basically forced into taking Clemency since freedom only lasts a millisecond now, and basically everyone can do magic effects through a BoP or break the BoP in the case of a warrior, so that isn't too great. Sacrifice got buffed to dispel magic, so now we can cleanse magic every two minutes now. Instead of every 1.5 seconds like we were able to do for YEARS.

Ret is great for Random BG's, perhaps one of the best specs, being able to burst down noobs, drop massive off heals and keep themselves alive.


Sure ret can beat up undergeared and crappy players, but so can every other class.

Ret is great for low rated arena for capping points, I solo cap my points every week running twos and I am usually above 50% win rate


Being good at low ratings against undergeared and crappy players isn't a strong selling point.
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For Random bg's Ret is great. For rateds you will find that as with arena's people get comps and strats in mind with min/maxing in mind and then never can think out of the box, they just tunnel on certain ideas (usually rightfully so at high ratings because they actually can use the toons to their full potential, AND folks want to win), thus Ret is not where it "needs" to be for most rated leaders.

The caveat is that this is really only true for mostly high rated teams, almost all low rated or intermediate up to about 1800-1900 teams will do just fine with Rets, but will refuse to take them because other high rated teams wont use them. Also as with arena since lower rated teams can rarely fully utilize the teams potential they just tunnel on what works for higher rated folks that actually can utilize the full potential of teams and lack the ability to see whats possible with different makeups and strats.

TLDR, Rets great/fun in randoms, hard to get in Rateds.
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90 Human Paladin
11945
@turaven

Ret burst is great... What have you been smoking to think that its not?

As for survivability... If you are spec'd into BoG (which is great for Bgs) there isn't a melee class out there that you can't kite to the moon and back and for casters? If there's any LoS around then they won't be able to kill you and you can come out of hiding when your CDs are available and try to blow them up and if that fails, then go back into hiding. We are pretty tanky without having to give up too much damage (tvs for some wogs sure but compare that to a war in def stance now or frosty in blood presence (unholy is broken atm as far as that is concerned) we don't have to gimp our rotation and by wogging we are getting the 9% dmg buff (if glyphed))

For random bgs, sure every other class can smash noobs, but can they drop 200k off heals on their noob team mates while doing so? HoP them? Sac/cleanse them? LoH? We have an awesome set of utility spells and I can't think of a dps spec that can be more widely helpful to a random group of strangers than ret can.

For arenas, ret is in a good position for high end stuff (from what I've heard and seen) not OP but strong. And being great in low rated arenas is probably a stronger selling point to the 95% of the player base that doesn't bother to try for rating, rather than being strongest at high ratings and mediocre at low ratings. (If such a class could exist)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
just grab a feral or DK or BM hunter and you'll do fine in 3's. however i can't truly enjoy ret because we are trash in 1v1. like if a 2's match comes down to me and a DK, i'll barely be able to scratch the DK. if i face some bad BM Hunter (popping stampede + bm = difficult) in world PvP, if i'm lucky i'll come out on top with all my cooldowns blown and 20% health. the only class with a good player behind the wheel i feel comfortable against is a warrior

so what are the problems with ret? it's boring as hell in world pvp, can't go around in random bg's having epic 1v3 fights against bad players to ninja cap nodes, after all these years still doesn't have great synergy with casters (at last in my exp from playing with a warlock), and sucks in rbg's (in large part a melee problem, but i'm convinced rogue and Arms would be competitive before Ret)

the other side of the coin is you can have a lot of fun playing a DPS and healer wrapped in one in random BG's. this is particularly effective when neither team has a whole lot of healers. and as i said, with the right melee cleave you can do well in 2's/3's

i just can't enjoy this spec the way i used to. when people used to call ret a "support spec," i would laugh. it just seemed a stupid description to me back then, but in MoP that's exactly what we play. HoP x 2 that can't be used on ourselves, HoSac + magic dispel x2 that can't be used on ourselves, and Selfless Healer is more effective on teammates

to make matters worse, ret requires peels more than most other DPS to survive. do you think a mage is ineffective when by himself? how about a rogue -- what does he lose besides Tricks? can he not protect himself better than a ret? DK, hunter, etc are all more self sufficient

oh, and our talents and glyphs suck so there's not a lot of variety with ret builds. yawn

03/27/2013 12:46 AMPosted by Amieclaire
As for survivability... If you are spec'd into BoG (which is great for Bgs) there isn't a melee class out there that you can't kite to the moon and back

may i introduce you to shuriken toss? :P i find it very painful to give up FoJ, even in random BG's. makes me that much worse at killing healers or safely blowing my cooldowns against a DPS
Edited by Hafleur on 3/27/2013 7:23 AM PDT
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53 Night Elf Rogue
7655
I understand where you are coming from Hafl. Ret isn't as much fun as it used to be.
I have played pally on and off since beta 1. Even remembers your old videos under your old name way back in the day.
As for synergy with a lock lol
I tried it also thought fears dots it would be fun, it is hella work for ret/lock to do well against good teams, every game is a chore :P I know you know what im talking about.

Now Healer/ret/hunter or ww monk or even spriest was pretty fun.
Hunter/WW Monk/feral/Spriest was alright Strongest in order that they are listed.

As for 1vs1 in arena been there few times hunters locks whatever.
I find just pillar humping while keeping truth up via judges and exo's for free hp and dumping it into EF works well using timed judges to run between emancipate and freedom.
Eventually you'll be-able to hard-cast fol and catch up and yeah dont forget the run and spin holy prism lol.

All i do when its down to the 1vs1 in arena is that
Pillar hump,timed judges to get away, Fol When I can los, SoJ if i cant get away
Keeping Ef/wog going every 2-3 hp i get,then complain in my head why we cant have both FoJ and BoG and eventually live long enough for hoj to come back up and kill it.

Yes we are in a better position then last patch but in my opinion several things need to be baseline for ret to make the play experience more enjoyable mind you I do like playing my ret. Either give us back instant cast 20-30 sec repentance that lasts 4-6 secs, or hoj 30 sec baseline for ret only. I love BoJ but FoJ is pretty much mandatory in arena other then certain teams.
I have spent 20k+ over the last few weeks retesting all the gems all different variations spec variations str/pvpp, resil, pure str like mes tried, str/mastery str/crit just for kicks.
Parsed everything into spreadsheets using my 3's healer as a test and running it in 2200-2450 pr 3's arena games running ret/disc/hunter.

Why you may ask since everything always seems set in stone but is not, blizzard is always quietly messing with crap.
I remember a few seasons back when the mighty lobster :P and cayse lol morons where trying to argue with me how mastery was better then crit for ret going on how look even vanguards does it, meanwhile mastery used to double dip, and crit was op if you got it high enough
big monster heals lots of big yellows keeping in mind this is a few seasons back.

Well after rolling vanguards a few time with baddieisaboss's dk bornio, or dkdownunder or whatever one he was playing low and behold vanguards respeced/reforged crit.
Then the nuthugging train started again and rets went crit doing the old heh hes high rank he uses it we wil do it also even tho I mentioned crit value back then 2 months before it became mainstream.

Ret is all about playstlyle and timing
I can repsec haste or mastery or even crit and do the same overall.
Do I prefer some stats over others for sure but its marginal differences in reality.

Haste in my opinion is overrated.
Yes faster gcds, my rebuttal to that Ret is trained 90% of the time still to this day.
If you are locked down at-least 20% it destroys almost all benefits from using / reforging this stat.
Yes haste is pve king, why its called up-time, unfortunately at-least 20% of your up-time gets taking away between fears,stuns,or any other form of cc or lock-downs in pvp.

Mastery- Better finally since it doesn't double dip on resil anymore, on par with haste but is a touch better do to up-time issues. Argue all you want. If you have 100% uptime then haste is better unfortunately sitting on someones back for 5-12 mins doesn't happen here in pvp let alone 1min+ on avg most classes get 70-80% up-time in a avg arena match if they are focus which rets are 90% of the time.

Crit, kinda usless until higher levels/gear, but at higher levels paired with EF str/pvpp, str/crit, crit it was the most bursty survivable ret I have played in a long long time.
Also while messing around i asked my healer if it seemed harder to heal me with a under 4% resil loss I was answered no and the games were much more controlled feeling and faster.

And I tell you it was some of the funnest feeling ret I have played in a long time.
Was pushing 30% crit with inq up self buffed, EF was champing like a boss since the hot does crit, and yellow after yellow on the screen with big EF tops.
Str/AP has a higher spell-power value then heal per heal for EF then pvp power does.
So instead of stacking I took a balance route and get more out of it by far, you know those results you feel and see.

I used to love SH but I feel overall weaker with it since I am tunneled 90% of the games and I think rets just got to used to seeing it flash and need to click it and cant live without it or just don't know how to work EF into their play-style.
Less overheals big initial heal, keeping in mind your not using hp to heal if there is no pressure. Its a double jeopardy
95% of people will spam a cd when needed, saying EF costs resources for dps is false, the dps loss is at the cost of a single templars verdict which isnt even our hardest hitting ability believe it or not and you wont be templaring things when you are dying wog will take preference. So there is no loss. And saying they will dispel EF well if that went so would SH.

Its all about up-time longer you can live more damage and use you will be overall.
Knowing when its time to get the hell outta dodge and when to bring the hell to dodge is a must also.
In reality 30 Sec Hoj or BoG should be baseline for rets.
With the loss or repentance being instant even @ the old 1min cd i miss it lol.

I wouldnt mind BoG being baseline but it would be to much being undispellable as it is.
A dispellable baseline BoG and a 20 sec cd 4sec blind time Repentance is what I would give ret. That would make ret ideal.
Spammable cc with dr would be nice but it will never happen as blizz hates cc as is even tho they never fix it properly
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16110
A lot of issues have been already said by the posters above me. I'll throw in my two cents below incase you need any more insight.

1. Our burst is great with our CDs. We have a high amount of it and on top of that our off healing gets a bit of an 'oof' if you have a Selfless Healer x3 built up.

2. Our survival is average. We can heal quite a bit but we take a lot of damage. If you fight a team that shatters/dispels our bubble, 99% you'll get trained.

3. Fears, fears, fears. We have no way to break most chain CC. Warriors have enraged, rogues CoS, DKs AMS. We have to bubble to break it, then that's a vital survival cooldown gone.

4. Not a good amount of peel. Slowing isn't effective, and while stuns can be used/blinding light, they've long cooldowns. And stunning to peel since that is our only stun can be discouraging. We -need- baseline abilities rather than being forced to pick critical things. Repentance being baseline as shown above me is vital.

5. We lose to a lot of classes in most situations. I can speak from experience not on my ret, but on my undergeared mage. I have crafted dreadful/some rare pieces of honor gear and I took down a full Malev ret because he got kited/chain CC'd as fire.

We're fun though I guess.

Oh and I guess we have to gem for full survival. Maybe 5.3 will alleviate that but don't count it just yet.
Edited by Valkrian on 3/27/2013 9:28 AM PDT
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53 Night Elf Rogue
7655
So true lol, only thing that sucks is 90% of ret's are diehard and will always play it here and there no matter what they do to us, pink dresses, nerf after nerf.

Like ghostcrawler said Ret playerbase is huge even tho they include holy in it, big player base = no love
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16110
So true lol, only thing that sucks is 90% of ret's are diehard and will always play it here and there no matter what they do to us, pink dresses, nerf after nerf.

Like ghostcrawler said Ret playerbase is huge even tho they include holy in it, big player base = no love


I tell myself it could be worse.
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