Do The Meters Matter?

90 Gnome Priest
17125
When it comes to healing hps does matter, along with active time, and spell uptimes. You can't look at healing blindly though. You can't compare the resto shaman to the disc priest and say resto shaman are useless. If that was the case no one would ever bring one, but thats just not the case.

For healers you have to set up a team. What do I want on my team? Variety is nice. Access to different abilities and cooldowns is a plus. Fitting each healer's niche in, and having healers cover each other's weaknesses.

Stuff like this is why we still use restoshamans, druids, holypriests and monks instead of stacking paladins and disc priests. While damae reduction/prevention from pallies and priests are really nice and their hps is inflated because of it, Paladins and disc priests just don't have the "healing" capabilities of other classes.

Druid hots are an amazing healing buffer and are great are recovering damage quickly. Disc priests don't have a single ability that works like a resto druid's hots. So while disc has higher hps, you still want to bring your resto druid along side your disc priest. Understand?

Its like this for all healers. Shamans have amazing cooldowns, (and manatide is godly), monks are an excellent source of damage with high healing and a very good cooldown. Resto druids and holy priests are both very similar, their hots and instant casts are very good and their healing cooldown is phenomenal.

Back to the original question though, do meters matter? Yes they do. But when you're comparing healers, its best to compare people of the same class in terms of healing done and hps. Its just unrealistic to compare the holy paladin to the resto shaman, especially when there are so many fights that differentiate in which healing class they cater to.

I hope my long rant helps!

edit: I hope nobody uses what I said as an excuse for low healing
Edited by Zolvolt on 3/28/2013 1:57 AM PDT
90 Draenei Monk
13925
Healing meters serve mainly as a guideline to show how much your spells have healed players, nothing more. A lot of people seem to chase the top of this, however. Healing meters can be distorted by sniped heals and burst AE heal cooldowns when they are unnecessary, such as Divine Hymning during normal mode elegon after an add's explosion, where there won't be much damage going out again raid-wide for a while.

Use them as a guide to see how much player's spells are healing for, whether they're using effective spells, and playing intelligently. A disc priest spamming atonement for high HPS is putting out a lot of heals, but is nearly worthless when you need to call upon their absorbs, because their role is to prevent damage, not heal damage they could have prevented.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
03/27/2013 11:53 AMPosted by Linnelle
Only if your lead is an idiot. Hps =/= dps where yes, in 90+% of cases you want to just dump the low man.


When equal gear and skill come into play than how do you make the determination? Height, weight, hair color?

I do not obsess with meter and i know the noone gets a cookie. And to be honest of your raid leader doesn't take the class that gives you the best chance to win then your RL is an idiot.
90 Night Elf Druid
5475
03/27/2013 12:36 PMPosted by Thaimaishu
That begs the question of why the non-Shaman healer would be any more likely to let someone die, especially with the extra HPS and similar (sometimes better) CDs.


Shaman are the most likely to gain the most HPS when the number of other healers declines. Partly because they are big snipe victims, but mostly because their mastery declines in value A LOT when there are too many healers for the encounter.

03/27/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Tiriel
Oh, it existed in the normal 5 mans, but by the time you hit Heroics, damage was intense and you couldn't afford to leave someone low because they would inevitably step in something and get one-shot at half-health.


Sounds like players need more stamina. Which would also help the shaman, come to think of it. "MUST TOP OFF EVERYONE NAO" is terrible gameplay, and not just because it undermines the post-Cata healing model. When you've reached the point where people seriously suggest that a *2 second* cast is unworkably long, then it's really time to reconsider the spikiness of damage.

If healers get more spirit while mana pools and costs remain static, but damage rises faster than HP pools, then it's just going to push healers into spamming flash heal more and more as they reach higher ilevels. That's actually *lowering* the amount of skill required in the encounter, compared to a fight where mana needs to be managed intelligently.
90 Gnome Monk
7430
03/28/2013 05:41 AMPosted by Sadiemay
Only if your lead is an idiot. Hps =/= dps where yes, in 90+% of cases you want to just dump the low man.


When equal gear and skill come into play than how do you make the determination? Height, weight, hair color?

I do not obsess with meter and i know the noone gets a cookie. And to be honest of your raid leader doesn't take the class that gives you the best chance to win then your RL is an idiot.


You answered the question yourself...you make the determination based on fight mechanics and the like (i.e. class/spec primarily) so you end up with a workable composition for that fight. With due consideration given to the players behind the toons because in the vast majority of cases it ISN'T about equal gear & skill.
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/28/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Calonderiel
Sounds like players need more stamina. Which would also help the shaman, come to think of it. "MUST TOP OFF EVERYONE NAO" is terrible gameplay, and not just because it undermines the post-Cata healing model. When you've reached the point where people seriously suggest that a *2 second* cast is unworkably long, then it's really time to reconsider the spikiness of damage.


You don't seem to comprehend that the "post-Cata healing model" never actually existed in the game.

If healers get more spirit while mana pools and costs remain static, but damage rises faster than HP pools, then it's just going to push healers into spamming flash heal more and more as they reach higher ilevels. That's actually *lowering* the amount of skill required in the encounter, compared to a fight where mana needs to be managed intelligently.


More Spirit means more padding for when something goes wrong is what it comes down to. A healer's function is not to "manage their mana intelligently." It's to extend a fight as long as possible in hopes of working towards a kill.
90 Night Elf Druid
5475
You don't seem to comprehend that the "post-Cata healing model" never actually existed in the game.


I've played content where it does exist, if you don't outgear that content. It's pretty easy to outgear most content, so this gets overlooked a lot.

Maybe you mean "it doesn't exist in heroic raiding". I'd say "fine", except that's actually not fine at all; it means heroic raiding is broken and Blizzard can't figure out a good way to challenge healers with heroic gear levels so they just throw more spike damage at them and give them lousy stam progression, using 2-shots as a substitute for more involved healing gameplay. That's pretty bad, actually.

03/28/2013 05:46 PMPosted by Tiriel
More Spirit means more padding for when something goes wrong is what it comes down to.


Sure, if Spirit were a free stat that didn't interact with other stats at all. It isn't. More spirit means less crit, haste, or mastery (via reforging) or less int (through consumables) or some combination of both (through gems). Spirit has an opportunity cost. If the thing that goes wrong is bursty, spirit isn't going to directly help you with it at all.

I don't really know how to respond to the idea that managing your mana doesn't help you extend the fight longer. Do you really have so much spirit that your mana bar never budges from 100%? If so, that's even worse than I thought, the whole concept of mana as a resource has broken down completely.
90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
Meters matter for the same reason they always have. Because they matter to raid leaders and raid leaders choose who has a raid spot.
90 Draenei Priest
14800
I think they do matter somewhat. It is not as simple as saying whoever is on the top is the best and whoever is on the bottom is worst.

If things are not going smoothly you can look over worldoflogs and see if someone isn't using something they should or casting all the wrong spells, etc...

But I have seen many healers who show great numbers on the meters. They can spam heals like its a dps rotation lol But when things go bad they don't have the smarts or skills to put those healers to real use.

When equal gear and skill come into play than how do you make the determination? Height, weight, hair color?


I don't think it is that simple either. If two classes were both truly equally skilled & geared but we needed to drop one then there are still so many other issues to think about- raid buffs, spread of loot, utility they bring (like a brez or such), etc...

if a team is thinking about cutting someone though then that means that there is a healing problem. So if they are equally skilled then perhaps they both need to be cut lol

My raid team is a good example, we often 2 heal & use myself as a pally & a shaman. Our third healer is a priest who goes shadow most fights. The priests numbers are awesome but the shaman and I have healed together forever and work amazingly well together. He is not going to have higher numbers then me but he has the skills that we can kick some healing butt together.
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/29/2013 08:37 AMPosted by Calonderiel
I've played content where it does exist, if you don't outgear that content. It's pretty easy to outgear most content, so this gets overlooked a lot.


Please, explain to me how the Triage model as stated at the start of Cata existed outside of theory and normal 5 man content?

Maybe you mean "it doesn't exist in heroic raiding". I'd say "fine", except that's actually not fine at all; it means heroic raiding is broken and Blizzard can't figure out a good way to challenge healers with heroic gear levels so they just throw more spike damage at them and give them lousy stam progression, using 2-shots as a substitute for more involved healing gameplay. That's pretty bad, actually.


It didn't exist in normal mode raiding, either. You didn't sit there and let people stay low (or below max health) at all for normal raids. You spammed, even if you didn't have enough mana to last by spamming. You just did it, because your job as a healer has always been to extend the raid encounter as long as possible in hopes of getting a kill.

Sure, if Spirit were a free stat that didn't interact with other stats at all. It isn't. More spirit means less crit, haste, or mastery (via reforging) or less int (through consumables) or some combination of both (through gems). Spirit has an opportunity cost. If the thing that goes wrong is bursty, spirit isn't going to directly help you with it at all.


That's not true at all for a Disc Priest. Not even a little bit. Maybe for you, as a Resto Druid, but your "burst" consists of Efflo and Mushrooms (and maybe Tranq, now that I think about it).

I don't really know how to respond to the idea that managing your mana doesn't help you extend the fight longer. Do you really have so much spirit that your mana bar never budges from 100%? If so, that's even worse than I thought, the whole concept of mana as a resource has broken down completely.


That's not at all what I said. What I said is the Triage model never existed in actual gameplay. It existed on the Beta, and the raid encounters were so mind-numbingly boring that they did away with the damage patterns that supported it before the expansion went live.
Edited by Tiriel on 3/29/2013 11:10 AM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
10155
Dont care, resto shamans are fun to play. I have a mistweaver monk and a holy pally, both 90. Pally used to be my main, I find Resto Shams to be the funnest class to play. Sure, we may not be the strongest, but idc, we are effective when played correctly.
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
Please, explain to me how the Triage model as stated at the start of Cata existed outside of theory and normal 5 man content?


Because every healer had a small, medium, and large heal? Because every healer had an AOE heal? Because every healer (save for a couple of times here and there) uses them?

03/29/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Tiriel
It didn't exist in normal mode raiding, either.


wtf, Yes it did.

You didn't sit there and let people stay low (or below max health) at all for normal raids. You spammed, even if you didn't have enough mana to last by spamming.


Sorry, then you raided with people who made it harder on you. That doesn't invalidate triage or the fact that it existed, it just means that the people you raided with weren't good enough that you had to spam your abilities.

You just did it, because your job as a healer has always been to extend the raid encounter as long as possible in hopes of getting a kill.


I feel so bad for you that this is your perception of what a healer is supposed to do.

That's not at all what I said. What I said is the Triage model never existed in actual gameplay when your DPS/Raid didn't follow with the mechanics of the fight and took extra damage. It made you spam your spells.


Fixed it for you.

Seriously, I get that it's your opinion/feelings/blahblahblah but the reality of it is that even today - get this - even today the concept of triage exists. It's not 100% where it was in Cataclysm but it's there.
90 Blood Elf Mage
17125
wtf, Yes it did.


It *never* *ever* existed.

They alleged that the constricted mana availability was fine because "oh hai guys, it's ok just to let someone sit at 40% health and then slowly heal them back up using your slow, mana-efficient spell". Sorry, but that was an absolute lie from the day Cataclysm came out. Leaving somebody at lowish health meant the person was dead.
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
Triage healing exists today. Blizzard's "Triage Model" with respect to damage intake doesn't really exist anymore, though, and I think people fixate on that.
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
When I two healed normal modes with a Holy Paladin in T11, the "Triage Model" was pretty flawless. We just healed everyone up with Healing Wave/Holy Light, even when someone was extremely low on health.

Al'Akir was a pretty awesome one. Whole raid just sitting at 30-50% HP all of phase two. Of course this was before my output was rebalanced in February. :*(
90 Blood Elf Mage
17125
Triage healing exists today. Blizzard's "Triage Model" with respect to damage intake doesn't really exist anymore, though, and I think people fixate on that.


The problem is that although they balanced mana availability around the idea that you would largely be using slower, more mana-neutral heals most of the time (saving the Flash Heal type heals for "oh s**t" moments), the damage never, ever reflected this reality.
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
03/29/2013 11:32 AMPosted by Taymage
It *never* *ever* existed.


Yes, it did.

Sorry, but that was an absolute lie from the day Cataclysm came out. Leaving somebody at lowish health meant the person was dead.


Please see quote:

Sorry, then you raided with people who made it harder on you. That doesn't invalidate triage or the fact that it existed, it just means that the people you raided with weren't good enough that you had to spam your abilities.


What I can tell you though, is that the people that I raided with then - on bleeding edge heroic progression content, that there was triage there.
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/29/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Practical
Because every healer had a small, medium, and large heal? Because every healer had an AOE heal? Because every healer (save for a couple of times here and there) uses them?


LOL that does not a Triage model make. Also, outside of Paladins, no one else really used those heals. Shaman abandoned HW very quickly, and I know I never used Heal on my Priest. It just didn't hit for enough and was rather inefficient.

wtf, Yes it did.


No, it really didn't, Practical. But it's cute that you keep on this tangent.

Sorry, then you raided with people who made it harder on you. That doesn't invalidate triage or the fact that it existed, it just means that the people you raided with weren't good enough that you had to spam your abilities.


Sorry that you raided with people who were okay with dying because you were afraid to spend Mana.

I feel so bad for you that this is your perception of what a healer is supposed to do.


I feel so bad for you that you vanish for months at a time, then show up to tell me how wrong I am, and nothing else.

That's not at all what I said. What I said is the Triage model never existed in actual gameplay when your DPS/Raid didn't follow with the mechanics of the fight and took extra damage. It made you spam your spells.


Fixed it for you.


Except you're still incorrect.

Seriously, I get that it's your opinion/feelings/blahblahblah but the reality of it is that even today - get this - even today the concept of triage exists. It's not 100% where it was in Cataclysm but it's there.


The concept of "who do I heal first" has always existed in the game. The concept of, "I will use my small, cheap, slow heal to heal people back up because I don't have enough mana to use anything else" has not existed outside of developer's heads since the Cata Beta for the majority of classes. Also, I would love to hear how Monks fit your triage model. :)
Edited by Tiriel on 3/29/2013 11:37 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Mage
17125
When I two healed normal modes with a Holy Paladin in T11, the "Triage Model" was pretty flawless. We just healed everyone up with Healing Wave/Holy Light, even when someone was extremely low on health.


That sounds like a recipe for lot of deaths for the person tanking Nefarion; or for raid members after electocutes; or on the pillars during that fight.
90 Blood Elf Mage
17125
What I can tell you though, is that the people that I raided with then - on bleeding edge heroic progression content, that there was triage there.


You are saying that you usually used Holy Light and that you left your raid group at 40% health all the time huh?

Edit: also congrats on your massive epeen, and thanks for taking the time to speak to the pleebs.
Edited by Taymage on 3/29/2013 11:40 AM PDT
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]