Do The Meters Matter?

90 Pandaren Priest
14930
What I can tell you though, is that the people that I raided with then - on bleeding edge heroic progression content, that there was triage there.


Your first heroic kill in T11 was three months after the entire tier had been cleared, and you want to tell me you were on bleeding edge heroic progression content?

Edited: Actually, I figured it out - 10 man. Yep, Triage apparently existed there for a long time. Or so I'm told. I wouldn't know about it, though, because the first 10 man content I ever raided was DS. It certainly never existed in 25 man content. Like, at all.
Edited by Tiriel on 3/29/2013 11:43 AM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
Actually Shadow Priests could heal using that one talent that gave them mana for taking damage. But we had a Druid for that fight, yes. Nothing gets past you!
90 Blood Elf Mage
17095
03/29/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Tiriel
What I can tell you though, is that the people that I raided with then - on bleeding edge heroic progression content, that there was triage there.


Your first heroic kill in T11 was three months after the entire tier had been cleared, and you want to tell me you were on bleeding edge heroic progression content?


That post was directed at me, Tiriel, since my guild sucks.
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/29/2013 11:41 AMPosted by Taymage


Your first heroic kill in T11 was three months after the entire tier had been cleared, and you want to tell me you were on bleeding edge heroic progression content?


That post was directed at me, Tiriel, since my guild sucks.


It doesn't really matter who it was directed at, since it wasn't bleeding edge progression.
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
Sorry that you raided with people who were okay with dying because you were afraid to spend Mana.


The people I raided with knew how to play, and that's why I didn't need to spend the mana on them to heal them in that second? I knew that they were good so I knew that I could spare a few moments healing someone else?

That makes those people good.

I feel so bad for you that you vanish for months at a time, then show up to tell me how wrong I am, and nothing else.


???

Me being on a hiatus has no bearing on how I can understand, or even argue, about triage. lolwhat.

The concept of "who do I heal first" has always existed in the game. The concept of, "I will use my small, cheap, slow heal to heal people back up because I don't have enough mana to use anything else" has not existed outside of developer's heads since the Cata Beta for the majority of classes.


If that concept didn't exist, and it was never really here, then people would not have been able to clear the content, as that's how damage patterns were. The problems with classes then were a lot of the time numerical issues (Such with Shamans and Priests), or Mechanical issues (Such with Shamans sucking in T11), but the design in healing was always there - their model of triage existed then, and it exists now.

Also, I would love to hear how Monks fit your triage model. :)


Sure:

Soothing Mists is our bread and butter heal - our "medium" heal. While Enveloping Mists is barred by Chi, it's relatively easy to obtain and allows a player to think "Well perhaps I need to save this chi for this tank," or even allow them to roll it on a tank if they're focusing on them. Surging Mists is your stock flash heal, but really serves it's purpose well when it comes to Soothing Mists and healing a target. Uplift and SCK are our AOE heals that really can't be spammed or you'll go OOM.

Oh, and REM and TFT up keep, but for the most part they've made it pretty clear.
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
You are saying that you usually used Holy Light and that you left your raid group at 40% health all the time huh?


Who said it was all the time? No one. The developers didn't even want that to happen to much or else you'd do nothing.

I, however, can recall plenty of times where I knew that I could leave someone at say, 40% because they were going to be OK.

Edit: also congrats on your massive epeen, and thanks for taking the time to speak to the pleebs.


Way to make it something it's not? I'm giving you perspective, not trying to wave my cheezements around going LOOKLOLIDiDHURRORICCONTENT.

It doesn't really matter who it was directed at, since it wasn't bleeding edge progression.


No, what I'm saying is:

If it existed in Heroic Progression (It did).
And that triage model was used in that heroic progression content (it was).
And your experiences don't line up with that...

Then perhaps you should reference the time where developers said that they weren't going to allow DPS to stand in fire anymore.

Check to see if your raid was standing in fire.
???
Profit.

You just found out your problem. Because I can promise you, if your raid was performing and geared at the level they needed to be in order to clear whatever raid you were doing then, you would know that triage existed.

The only problem with triage, or the healing model in Cataclysm, was that it was extremely contingent on someone making a mistake - that can mess up your mojo hard.
Edited by Practical on 3/29/2013 11:51 AM PDT
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
The people I raided with knew how to play, and that's why I didn't need to spend the mana on them to heal them in that second? I knew that they were good so I knew that I could spare a few moments healing someone else?

That makes those people good.


Okay, dear.

???

Me being on a hiatus has no bearing on how I can understand, or even argue, about triage. lolwhat.


You're insulting the people I raided with - people you've never met - and apparently you came back from a hiatus just to do that. Which is amusing as hell from my position.

If that concept didn't exist, and it was never really here, then people would not have been able to clear the content, as that's how damage patterns were. The problems with classes then were a lot of the time numerical issues (Such with Shamans and Priests), or Mechanical issues (Such with Shamans sucking in T11), but the design in healing was always there - their model of triage existed then, and it exists now.


Except that isn't quite how it worked out. See, in a 25 man raid, using your small, slow, cheap heal caused your tank to die. It also tended to end with DPS dropping over from unexpected damage. And even if you say, "Well, if your raid had played better it would have worked," that isn't how real life works, Practical. Because people aren't perfect, and Healers aren't here to bolster "perfect" people. We're here to fix things when someone ISN'T perfect.

Soothing Mists is our bread and butter heal - our "medium" heal. While Enveloping Mists is barred by Chi, it's relatively easy to obtain and allows a player to think "Well perhaps I need to save this chi for this tank," or even allow them to roll it on a tank if they're focusing on them. Surging Mists is your stock flash heal, but really serves it's purpose well when it comes to Soothing Mists and healing a target. Uplift and SCK are our AOE heals that really can't be spammed or you'll go OOM.


And your small, slow, cheap heal? Which one is that? Soothing Mist heals every single tick, and because you also will have ReM out (unless you're bad), they're getting that HoT healing them as well. And don't tell me that you'll OOM if you spam Uplift. It doesn't cost mana, Practical.

Oh, and REM and TFT up keep, but for the most part they've made it pretty clear.


k. I disagree, but that's no surprise. I know people who never cast Soothing Mist. Ever. And while Env does corrolate well to Greater Heal (though you lose nothing by simply putting it on a tank to keep his health steady - i.e. engaging in gross overheal), Flash Heal and Healing Surge were never as punitive to our mana pool as Surging Mist is.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12465
Practical is correct, and it does still exist.

Riôt
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
The Triage Model didn't hold very well in Firelands. Tanks were easily crushed before healers could react to the damage.

Triage is a word that has its own definition that many people seem to have a different view on what it means exactly. Whatever that view is, it doesn't necessarily mean that the Triage Model, which is ultimately a model, enforced that definition. The primary feature of the Triage Model was to move away from WotLK's digital health bars to smooth healing dynamics more.
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
. And even if you say, "Well, if your raid had played better it would have worked," that isn't how real life works, Practical. Because people aren't perfect, and Healers aren't here to bolster "perfect" people. We're here to fix things when someone ISN'T perfect.


You seem to think that playing well and playing perfect are synonymous. They aren't. I don't think my guild at the time was perfect, everyone made mistakes - like you said, they were human and humans are allowed to make mistakes. And while I don't know your guild - if you're still coming around saying triage didn't exist, it's probably because your raid didn't play better.

No one is asking for perfection - but there's nothing wrong with telling your raid "I don't have the mana or ability to sustain your asses while you take bookoos amount of damage, so get your !@#$ together."

And your small, slow, cheap heal? Which one is that? Soothing Mist heals every single tick, and because you also will have ReM out (unless you're bad), they're getting that HoT healing them as well. And don't tell me that you'll OOM if you spam Uplift. It doesn't cost mana, Practical.


Enveloping Mist is supposed to be our "greater heal" but I can see how people would discount that because I don't know a single person who hard-casts Enveloping Mists.

I know people who never cast Soothing Mist. Ever.


lol?

Obviously it had to exist, because you are so perfect, as is your raid, and it worked for you. GRATS! You are so perfect and awesome that you killed all the content when it was bleeding edge. Wait, you didn't? Wait, did your raiders make mistakes, too? Were your raiders sometimes "bad"? Did your raiders suffer from the horror of being human beings who are fallible? I thought you raided with perfect robots, Practical. Way to ruin my perception of you.


^

Can someone please tell me wth I just read.
Edited by Practical on 3/29/2013 11:59 AM PDT
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Practical is correct, and it does still exist.

Riôt


I don't see how you would know since you don't even raid, Riot.
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/29/2013 11:57 AMPosted by Practical
You seem to think that playing well and playing perfect are synonymous. They aren't. I don't think my guild at the time was perfect, everyone made mistakes - like you said, they were human and humans are allowed to make mistakes. And while I don't know your guild - if you're still coming around saying triage didn't exist, it's probably because your raid didn't play better.


My raid played just fine. I think your memory of the time period we're talking about is skewed by your green text. As it has been for months, now that I think about it.

No one is asking for perfection - but there's nothing wrong with telling your raid "I don't have the mana or ability to sustain your asses while you take bookoos amount of damage, so get your !@#$ together."


And people did. But that doesn't mean that you sat there with your thumb up your butt spamming your tiny, pointless heal. People were dying. I'd rather be OOM with people alive than sitting on a full mana pool while the raid wipes.

Enveloping Mist is supposed to be our "greater heal" but I can see how people would discount that because I don't know a single person who hard-casts Enveloping Mists.


That's actually another thing - I don't see how you can say that Monks conform to the three-heal model when they have so many instant casts (or things that can be MADE instant if you are using SooM).

I know people who never cast Soothing Mist. Ever.


lol?


Actually, to clarify - they only cast SooM to make Env instant. Otherwise, they Jab. Yeah, even with the increased mana cost (not that it apparently matters, as you seem to be able to jab to your heart's content without actually OOMing if you do it right).
Edited by Tiriel on 3/29/2013 12:05 PM PDT
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
And people did. But that doesn't mean that you sat there with your thumb up your but spamming your tiny, pointless heal. People were dying. I'd rather be OOM with people alive than sitting on a full mana pool while the raid wipes.


But the thing is, I could afford to do that when my raid got their act together.

:( I'm sorry that wasn't the case for you. :(

That's actually another thing - I don't see how you can say that Monks conform to the three-heal model when they have so many instant casts (or things that can be MADE instant if you are using SooM).


Because they still do - they have a big, small, medium heal - it's just done in a very weird way. Very unconventional.

My raid played just fine. I think your memory of the time period we're talking about is skewed by your green text. As it has been for months, now that I think about it.


I haven't changed at all, and I'd love to be catty with you but I unfortunately don't have the desire to stoop any lower than the ground I walk on.

xo
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
/popcorn
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Do people really believe that triage existed outside of 5-man heroics in Cata? Most healers had sufficient mana regeneration to not have to resort to triage after getting geared up in heroics and getting a few loot from T11 normals.
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Edited: Actually, I figured it out - 10 man. Yep, Triage apparently existed there for a long time. Or so I'm told. I wouldn't know about it, though, because the first 10 man content I ever raided was DS. It certainly never existed in 25 man content. Like, at all.


It didn't really, maybe except for the first week or two of normal mode raiding in T11. I was happily spamming Rejuvs and PoHs past that point (yes, I was a huge nerd and raided on both the Druid and Priest).
Edited by Ceddya on 3/29/2013 12:19 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Soothing Mists is our bread and butter heal - our "medium" heal. While Enveloping Mists is barred by Chi, it's relatively easy to obtain and allows a player to think "Well perhaps I need to save this chi for this tank," or even allow them to roll it on a tank if they're focusing on them. Surging Mists is your stock flash heal, but really serves it's purpose well when it comes to Soothing Mists and healing a target. Uplift and SCK are our AOE heals that really can't be spammed or you'll go OOM.


You do realize that Soothing Mists is mostly used as a filler and to build Chi when there's no damage going out right. No decent monk is actually using it as a form of triage to conserve mana. Go watch Affinitii's vids if you need tips on how to heal better on the Monk*.
Edited by Ceddya on 3/29/2013 12:24 PM PDT
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
11385
You do realize that Soothing Mists is mostly used as a filler and to build Chi when there's no damage going out right. No decent monk is actually using it as a form of triage to conserve mana. Go watch Affinitii's vids if you need tips on how to heal better on the Shaman.


He uses Soothing Mists to actively heal. You should probably watch the more recent ones.
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
He uses Soothing Mists to actively heal. You should probably watch the more recent ones.


To build Chi in preparation of upcoming spikes in damage? He's certainly not using it because he has to resort to triage due to having mana constraints.
Edited by Ceddya on 3/29/2013 12:27 PM PDT
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