Information about the Highlands Council

The common area is considered Stromgarde. Seeing as everyone has a right to be there and participate, the laws will just -be- for there.

And yes, ICly, and OOCly, I am saying, if you do not want to participate, there will be no measures taken against anyone. Say if, You, Lord Talwind rather, does not want to recognize the Regent in any sort of fashion, that's fine. Hellissa, nor the people of the council- will bother him about it. They won't say "You must submit to these laws or perish!"

Really, on an OOC scale? The council has absolutely no power. None what-so-ever. We are all players pretending to be something. This is just for people who want to play along, and people who want to write pretend laws, and want to have a pretend government. It's also a place where people and guilds can come together to defend lands, write storylines together and fight the Horde.

On the IC level, Hellissa has done her best to make it clear, only the people that recognize the regency can 1.) be involved, and 2.) be "governed". Those that don't want anything like that, on an IC scale, don't have to. They can carry on and just assume she's another person reaching for power that shouldn't be. Most of this affects the pretend people of the Highlands, and not the players at all.

None of the laws will ever make it hard for a player to interact with another player. None of the laws will be about much of -anything- that has a real effect on the players. Tax laws, education laws, crime laws- none of those things should ever ever make it hard for people to do anything.

Otherwise, in short, it's just the people that want to be involved and their lands.

If I did not answer the question, let me know.
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My actual question was less a worry for what I or the RP community will be forced into, as that is not something I am too worried about with this. Neither was it about your OOC power over anyone.

Rather, it was more about what the story will say about this council - as I imagine you will be framing the scheme of how it all comes together.

For example: a couple of random NPC characters in Stromwind, who are pretty informed about what is going on and where, are talking about Stromgarde. What will the say?

Will they say that the Kingdom of Stromgarde is now ruled by a council of nobles and the citizens there are bound by any laws they create?
Will they say that a bunch of nobles have elected a leader and got together in some small part of the highlands and have begun passing laws that will govern their own lands (there-by almost creating their own little kingdom)?

I hope I am clear. I suppose the image I have in my head is of a random citizen walking along a random road of the highlands. They are not near the land of Hellissa or of any of the nobles. Are they considered bound by said laws? (The random citizen in this example is not a player character so you don't have to worry about assuring me that their permission will be asked. I'm just curious to see your view of Hellissa's/Council's reach within Arathi.)

====

On a side note, you are making it sound like that is the IC statement that those that do not want to be governed by this, won't be. Is that what Hellissa, the character, doing as regent? Because that sounds like if I am a criminal I am allowed to go "Nah, I don't want to be governed by you." to get out of a misdeed. A voluntary system doesn't tend to work too well, whether democratic or not.

Though perhaps I misunderstood and you meant that as a purely OOC point that people won't be forced into RP they do not wish to partake in.
Edited by Alezander on 3/27/2013 1:49 PM PDT
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Alright let me see if I can tackle this. Random NPCs are considered to be bound the laws of the Highlands. Before, they had the "old laws" that they were bound to. Same with people that visited, such as the Clergy. The Council/Regent will place new laws over those old laws and thus, yes, will be the "law" for the pretend people to follow.

Unless that land is governed by someone who does not recognize the council, or Regent. It's a complicated thing, when we are all talking about a world of pretend, where no one -actually- has power to enforce anything.

If someone goes about breaking the laws (Obviously on purpose), that means they want to roleplay. You can't go and punch someone in the face then ten seconds later change your mind about wanting to interact. You've already given consent for other people to take action against you. The laws would be enforced (In Stromgarde, that would be covered by Kingdom of Stromgarde, for example.)

It IS almost like a whole new kingdom, because we don't have a king. We don't have guards placed around to protect our NPCs. We don't have anything. So we the players have to do all of that, if we want it to exist.
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Alright, thanks Helli. I have to run, but I'll look over everything again later. I think I still have a couple of questions - but I am sure you'll be happy to get a break.
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90 Human Paladin
0
What exactly are these 'common areas' that will be governed by the laws, in the scope of the roleplay community at large? That is to say - are you in the process of this council claiming to rule 'Arathi except for the specific lands of those who do not want to be involved'? Or perhaps will such laws only apply on the lands of those that do wish to be involved an no where else?

I suppose what I am trying to gauge is how much power and reach you are giving this council in 'terms of story'


What this means (And perhaps it should be reworded so as to be clearer) is that each Noble shall govern his/her own holdings as they see fit. For example: On Melysa's holdings, the punishment for theft is the loss of the offending hand. While this may not be the same for Duchess Brisby's holdings, the Council will not interfere with such affairs as they do not concern anyone but the people of that particular holding.

The purpose of the council is not to take power from or otherwise hinder what the Nobility is able to do within its own holdings, but to act for the betterment of the highlands as a whole. With the forsaken and the syndicate being a threat, the council may vote to assemble troops from each holding and go to battle. They may vote to construct and staff a public school or academy for the betterment of the people. They may also vote to work jointly in the rebuilding of villages, homes, etc. It is not about power, but about rebuilding a broken Kingdom and offering the people a better life.

Edit: Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist, but such a council should promote people working together to solve the problems of the highlands. Then again... Whenever Nobles gather, there tends to be a lot of squabbling.
Edited by Melysa on 3/27/2013 2:16 PM PDT
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So...what exactly is an Arathi citizen?

Do they have to be from the old tribe?

Do they have to hail from the old Empire of Arathor?

Are they the people of the Kingdom of Stromgarde?

Are they the people of "the North"?

If you're talking about people that live in the Highlands--that belongs to the Kingdom of Stromgarde currently. So you may want to clarify that to mean "citizen of Stromgarde" rather than Arathi citizen in your House of Commons post--assuming, of course, that that's what you mean.
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Arathi Citizen. Someone who lives in the Arathi Highlands.
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By your clarification, I'm going to assume that you believe that the Arathi Highlands are considered to encompass all of the Kingdom of Stromgarde. And since that is all that we see of it in-game, I suppose that makes sense.

I do still think that citizen of Stromgarde would be a better clarification, but I won't belabor the point.
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What this means (And perhaps it should be reworded so as to be clearer) is that each Noble shall govern his/her own holdings as they see fit. For example: On Melysa's holdings, the punishment for theft is the loss of the offending hand. While this may not be the same for Duchess Brisby's holdings, the Council will not interfere with such affairs as they do not concern anyone but the people of that particular holding.

The purpose of the council is not to take power from or otherwise hinder what the Nobility is able to do within its own holdings, but to act for the betterment of the highlands as a whole. With the forsaken and the syndicate being a threat, the council may vote to assemble troops from each holding and go to battle. They may vote to construct and staff a public school or academy for the betterment of the people. They may also vote to work jointly in the rebuilding of villages, homes, etc. It is not about power, but about rebuilding a broken Kingdom and offering the people a better life.

Edit: Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist, but such a council should promote people working together to solve the problems of the highlands. Then again... Whenever Nobles gather, there tends to be a lot of squabbling.


The RP that you are describing sounds quite fantastic. A bunch of powerful people gathering and voting to decide where to send their own armies, where to build a school with their own resources, where to rebuild a village.

However, that isn't what Hellissa has outlined before now. Not even close. What you are describing is just some fraction what has been put forward in the forum posts. You do not need anyone called regent to do what you are writing about there, you certainly don't need to implement new laws. What you are doing here is governing some sort of nation - the title of regent implies that it is the nation of Stromgarde - but the reason for the questions is that I wasn't quite sure what it is that you are governing. You seem to stop short of outright saying that his council has the ambition of outright ruling Arathi - probably for very understandible reasons that such an ambition gets one a lot of hate on an OOC level.

However trying to 'half-sorta-do-it' creates a council whose purpose is.... Probably exactly what Melysa described, but with this strange, almost childish layer of pretending to be the leaders of the kingdom added to it.

I say pretending because:

On the IC level, Hellissa has done her best to make it clear, only the people that recognize the regency can 1.) be involved, and 2.) be "governed".


What that tells me is that on an IC level, (assuming her laws were passed to protect peasantry and let's for hypothetical purposes say that before her the 'old laws' gave nobility the power to do whatever) Alez could walk into Stromgarde, !@#$% slap the closest peasant to Hellissa for no reason what-so-ever, and then tell her that he doesn't recognise her rule therefore by her own agreement he should be judged by the old laws. Then she, if the above quote is accurate, would have to respect that. Not because I am being a jerk and I hate your RP - but because Alez doesn't recognise her rule and as such is free to act by his own laws. Unless, of course, she is liar and only said that to reduce hostility but really will persecute anyone who goes against said laws. Which, I suppose, is a possibility.

Is the above paragraph accurate? If so, do you see how it pretty much gives characters (not players) the choice of what they follow and as such make that pseudo-ruling layer you have added completely void.

I'm not trying to attack you, because truly I understand why you have felt the need to stay on this careful, safe side for the sake of not stepping on the very shaky nerves of the average RPer. What Melysa's paragraph seems to outline is a good less extreme option. What you seem to want to want to outline (but stop short of doing) is the attempt at outright ruling of the Kingdom of Stromgarde. This is the other more extreme option which -will- make Hellissa many enemies but, at least, it will be more practically viable in the 'imaginary sense.'

Of course, if your actual objective is to do what my theoretical paragraph describes - it will be safer and it will practically be what Melysa is suggesting too... But it will, in my opinion, also make Hellissa look fairly silly as a person who on top of helping the highlands wants to pretend to play ruler without actually making any enemies.
Edited by Alezander on 3/27/2013 6:56 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10460
Melysa, not melyria silly! But otherwise, I think your post was very well-written and astute.
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80 Night Elf Monk
1035
I don't get why you people are all over Hellissa for RPing something. If you don't like it then don't RP with her. This is really all uncalled for and just seems like people pulling someone else down because they don't want to do things themselves.
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My bad, I'm writing this mid-class so not much time to think. :P Thanks Fere.
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I'm not against her RP. I very rarely am against any RP. I will happily leave this thread if people want me to - I assumed people who post on the forums are up for a discussion. I saw something that seemed non-sensical to me so I replied in an attempt to outline what I saw and to understand it.
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Alez, first of all, that's Melysa. I'm fairly sure Melyria has nothing to do with Arathi, as that would be a night elf.

Secondly. And here's the key point I keep trying to stress: I can't make people do anything.

I can't make people do anything.

I can't make people do anything.

Things I can do: Roleplay a Regent. Make a Council. Say that Council is the ruling body of Arathi. Try to make a good environment for roleplay for lots of people.

Things I don't want: A bunch of wars and conflict just because people are being angry at whatever. People that start wars just because they don't like one little thing are childish to me. People that are willing to commit the lives of men because wah, I'm not getting my way, are childish to me.

More things I don't want: People trying to cause problems when I'm already trying to build roleplay. Here's what you can do. You can either 1.) Role play with it. Or 2.) Don't. I know you probably weren't intending on being so harsh in your post, but you were and I'm going to defend my right to roleplay -whatever I want.-

Alright. Enough of that. If anyone else has an issue, it better be about the structure or the council or questions about it. I'm no longer going to be answering problems with being regent. I don't owe anyone an explanation, even if I've been patient and answered each one regardless.
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80 Night Elf Monk
1035
03/27/2013 06:37 PMPosted by Alezander
What that tells me is that on an IC level, (assuming her laws were passed to protect peasantry and let's for hypothetical purposes say that before her the 'old laws' gave nobility the power to do whatever) Alez could walk into Stromgarde, !@#$% slap the closest peasant to Hellissa for no reason what-so-ever, and then tell her that he doesn't recognise her rule therefore by her own agreement he should be judged by the old laws.


What do you feel this adds to the discussion? Yes, if you want to be obstructive and rude then you have that ability, but why would it be introduced into any rational discourse?

Alright. Enough of that. If anyone else has an issue, it better be about the structure or the council or questions about it. I'm no longer going to be answering problems with being regent. I don't owe anyone an explanation, even if I've been patient and answered each one regardless.


Good on you.
Edited by Kimchi on 3/27/2013 6:56 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
0
What that tells me is that on an IC level, (assuming her laws were passed to protect peasantry and let's for hypothetical purposes say that before her the 'old laws' gave nobility the power to do whatever) Alez could walk into Stromgarde, !@#$% slap the closest peasant to Hellissa for no reason what-so-ever, and then tell her that he doesn't recognise her rule there-fore by her own agreement he should be judged by the old laws; then she if the above quote is accurate, would have to respect that. Not because I am being a jerk and I hate you RP - but because Alez doesn't recognise her rule and as such is free to act by his own laws. Unless, of course, she is liar and only said that to reduce hostility but really will prosecute anyone who goes against said laws.


Does your character own the city of Stromgarde?

I didn't think so. In which case, he is not on his own holdings, and therefore subject to the laws of the land as agreed upon by the council. When he's on his own holdings, he can beat his peasants all he likes.

Unless you don't want to RP with us, in which case, we can agree to ignore one another and everyone is happy. I don't see what's so difficult about this concept. All the council does is give those who DO wish to take part in the RP a chance to do so.

So no. We're not forcing anyone to RP with us. What we are attempting to do is give people a way to get involved, should they choose to do so. The formation of the council was Hellissa's idea as Regent. You don't have to support it and you don't have to RP with us if it's not something that interests you.
Edited by Melysa on 3/27/2013 7:06 PM PDT
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60 Night Elf Death Knight
3905

What that tells me is that on an IC level, (assuming her laws were passed to protect peasantry and let's for hypothetical purposes say that before her the 'old laws' gave nobility the power to do whatever) Alez could walk into Stromgarde, !@#$% slap the closest peasant to Hellissa for no reason what-so-ever, and then tell her that he doesn't recognise her rule therefore by her own agreement he should be judged by the old laws. Then she, if the above quote is accurate, would have to respect that. Not because I am being a jerk and I hate your RP - but because Alez doesn't recognise her rule and as such is free to act by his own laws.


I'd probably just ignore you. Problem solved.
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Erm...

So I have a question, how does/will this council regard Danath Trollbane seeing as he is the last living heir of the Trollbane bloodline.
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Well, he's not in the Highlands to rule, so the Regent is in place of the King. When the heir returns and is crowned King, the council will belong to him.
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*nods* Fair enough, might want to include that point somewhere in your original posts then, to avoid further confusion :)
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