Haunting Spirit... worst idea ever

90 Night Elf Warrior
9850
Blizzard should of just added Haunting Spirits to either that pandaren vendor in that bull temple or to the vendors at Isle of thunder for like 800 vp so that way ppl at least try to do enough dailies instead of spending cash or wishing they had the cash to buy them off the AH. Or at least make them random Isle of Thunder drops. Not all players "play" the AH or make stuff to put on the AH.
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90 Draenei Priest
12695
During cataclysm, I never seemed to get many Essence of Destruction so I could never make the items that required them. The gear I got in raids always seemed to be better. Same with Blood Spirits in the beginning of Pandaria. I expect the same with Haunting Spirits. Seems now that you can get better from the Shado-Pan Assault quartermaster. I've never been thrilled with having the recipes but not the mats but I won't buy them and they're not high on my priority list. You could, conceivably, tell the "LF tailor to make..." types that it'll cost them one additional Haunting Spirit instead of gold. Haven't tried that one yet.
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90 Tauren Druid
7980
So blizzard let all professions be able to learn the patterns but to use them you have to be a raider that gets a chance at getting haunting spirits. Corporate stupidly in action and what I don't understand is why they thought this was a good ideal.
Edited by Nuadorin on 3/31/2013 1:25 PM PDT
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Having a guild that actually lets you roll on de'd items is kinda rare in my experience. The guilds I've been in, if an item wasn't used and was sent to the chanter to de, then that chanter kept the mats retrieved from that de. :\
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90 Orc Warrior
14095
So blizzard let all professions be able to learn the patterns but to use them you have to be a raider that gets a chance at getting haunting spirits. Corporate stupidly in action and what I don't understand is why they thought this was a good ideal.


Id rather learn the plans through discovery than have to pay 10k for them in the AH when the raid guilds run out of people who need the plans. I don't need 522 gear to run LFR, you only need it if you do regular raids.

Having a guild that actually lets you roll on de'd items is kinda rare in my experience. The guilds I've been in, if an item wasn't used and was sent to the chanter to de, then that chanter kept the mats retrieved from that de. :\


All the guilds ive been in sent the mats to the guild bank and people who needed to use them got to. There was usually a system to decide who got priority, tanks and heals before dps as an example.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
They're not meant to be an easy way to gear up. They're meant to be an alternative to useless drops, turning them (if inefficiently) to something useful.

This is in contrast to prior raid crafting mats, which could drop from trash (encouraging trash farming runs) or be bonus loot from bosses. They were also typically available (if expensive) for purchase, usually with the relevant high end currency (which would be valor points now).

It's a design change. They're not meant to be plentiful early on. This is intentional.


In theory, I think it makes a lot of sense, especially if the drop for those slots aren't as common. It takes bad luck and makes it into bearable luck.

But there's a problem with the theory. In my 10 man group, we do not have an Enchanter. This means that the gear CANNOT be disenchanted. So every piece of useless gear is just sold to a vendor.

But I guess every other group has an enchanter - we're just the weird outlier. Thankfully, with some raids having places you can mount, we don't have to keep running outside the instance to repair as we lack an engineer as well.
Edited by Feythylan on 4/1/2013 3:46 PM PDT
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1 Orc Mage
0
They're not meant to be an easy way to gear up. They're meant to be an alternative to useless drops, turning them (if inefficiently) to something useful.

This is in contrast to prior raid crafting mats, which could drop from trash (encouraging trash farming runs) or be bonus loot from bosses. They were also typically available (if expensive) for purchase, usually with the relevant high end currency (which would be valor points now).

It's a design change. They're not meant to be plentiful early on. This is intentional.


In theory, I think it makes a lot of sense, especially if the drop for those slots aren't as common. It takes bad luck and makes it into bearable luck.

But there's a problem with the theory. In my 10 man group, we do not have an Enchanter. This means that the gear CANNOT be disenchanted. So every piece of useless gear is just sold to a vendor.

But I guess every other group has an enchanter - we're just the weird outlier. Thankfully, with some raids having places you can mount, we don't have to keep running outside the instance to repair as we lack an engineer as well.


just put someone's enchanter alt into the raid and put it off to like group 8 or something to not mess with raid frames, problem solved
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90 Tauren Druid
7980
Id rather learn the plans through discovery than have to pay 10k for them in the AH when the raid guilds run out of people who need the plans. I don't need 522 gear to run LFR, you only need it if you do regular raids.


But if you can not get mats why do you need the patterns. It is like learning how to shoot a bow and then told "sorry unless you part of the hunters club you can not have a bow."
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14440
Frozen Orbs were the big thing back in Wrath. And after a while you could buy them from a vendor in Dalaran. This deal with Haunted Spirits is pretty stupid.

"After a while"... you mean like how you can now buy blood spirits from a vendor on Isle of Thunder?
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90 Orc Warrior
14095
But if you can not get mats why do you need the patterns. It is like learning how to shoot a bow and then told "sorry unless you part of the hunters club you can not have a bow."


I can get the mats, ive seen a few for sale. Its just not worth it to me to pay that much for one piece of gear. Plus ive made crafted items from the raid patterns for people in other guilds who hadn't gotten the pattern. Just cause I don't have a use for it personally doesn't mean I shouldn't know the pattern.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
On the servers I play on the average cost for a haunting spirit is around 12k each that would put the cost for item level 522 tailoring boots at 72k and 96k for hood just for the cost of the spirit.


Watch that price plummet, really soon. In the first weeks of MSV, Blood Spirits were trading on the AH for nearly 10k. By the time December had rolled around, they were around 1k-2k. When I last checked in Feburary, they were a couple hundred gold. The same thing will happen with Haunting Spirits ...

Huge Demand! OMG, it's ilevel 522 gear, that I can get without having to hope and pray that it drops from a ToT boss! Not to mention that our raid group is stuck on Jin'rokh, and some weeks we don't even try Jin'rokh because that even takes an entire night of wipes. Sweet! I'll pay whatever you want for the Haunting Spirits!

Low Supply! OMG, these ilevel 522 drops are great upgrades for EVERYONE in the raid group. No way will we be disenchanting these drops!

Couple months later ...

Low Demand! Why would I pay for crafted gear that is a sidegrade to what I have now, or what I'm hoping will drop from our next Horridon kill this Tuesday?

High Supply! Well, looks like no one wants this gear either, guess we'll DE it and put the Blood Spirits in the GB.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13355
03/29/2013 09:25 PMPosted by Eireeyes
At the same time if someone in the guild did not have the plans it let others make some gold if they did not raid


That makes absolutely no sense.

If they don't raid how are they going to get the mats cheap enough to make anything worth selling?

On the servers I play on the average cost for a haunting spirit is around 12k each that would put the cost for item level 522 tailoring boots at 72k and 96k for hood just for the cost of the spirit.

So I don't see how your statement there makes any sense at all.


Sorry I wasn't clear. Raid teams that kill stuff on normal and heroics and have crappy rng can tip someone a crap load that has the patterns. I don't raid normals anymore so I don't need 522 gear. My friends that do though have the matts but don't have the patterns, so I still make gold while they get something from the bad drops.

When we raided fire lands we needed a bunch of cloth boots but had crap luck from shannox, we were getting the matts from raiding and then tipped one of our friends who had the patterns 800 gold per dreamcloth.

It's not an ideal design by any means. I know it sucks having a pattern on your character and not being able to make it because you don't raid normals, but at the same time it sucks raiding and not being able to use any of the gear that drops.
Edited by Bloodkorican on 4/2/2013 12:30 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Warlock
13145
With the faulty assumption that you're a DE'er, or that you'll win the roll on the spirits.


Guild collects them.

Guild has crafter make item for guildie.

They're not meant to be adequately accumulated in pug raids where you roll on DE'd items.

I know why they did it. I see how it works, I still think it's stupid. I can make, between my two tailors, both sets of boots and I think one other pattern, but I'll never get to make them. Blood spirits didn't drop under 2k each on my realm until recently. An item isn't worth the 16k to make.

I liked it when the crafting professions actually crafted good epic sets of gear. It was not the best gear in the game and not extremely easy to get all the mats but doable with a small amount of effort.


I liked being able to make a set of blue gear that was worth a crap to use.

The 450 stuff is garbage. Why on earth would I make/use this, when I can just buy stuff off a vendor to fill in my holes and queue for heroics?
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90 Dwarf Warlock
13145
Having a guild that actually lets you roll on de'd items is kinda rare in my experience. The guilds I've been in, if an item wasn't used and was sent to the chanter to de, then that chanter kept the mats retrieved from that de. :\


And in my guilds, it went right into the guild bank.

Or that enchanter wasn't DEing for the guild raids anymore.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19970
Worst idea ever? No. As crappy an idea as the other tier's craftable items? Yes.

TL;DR: There should be a balance between the Wrath model and the Cata model (the one we're operation under still) because as it stands crafting current tier epics is a Sisyphean effort.

Stay a while and listen.

When there's no alternative way to acquire these 'orb' items, I never find the opportunity or the will to craft the items that use them. Either they are prohibitively expensive or prohibitively rare or, once those two barriers evaporate, they are no longer of any relevance and there's no need for me to craft them.

An alternative to acquisition, like there was all through Wrath seems to me to strike a good balance between time/currency/availability needed to get a crafting 'orb'. Remember the Icecrown tier of 'orb'? You could spend your raiding currency on them or on upgrades, and it provided a little choice action in gear progression (maybe only a cynic would call that a real choice, because who would buy boots rather than upgrade Shadow's Edge, but it was a choice, if a very silly one).

Cata is where things went really wrong. Remeber chaos orbs? They were very easy to acquire, but BOP, so they had either extreme value or no value depending on ones profession. Then they became BOE and a slew of patterns that used them had to be introduced in 5.1 to drain the bloated supply of them from the population, and people who had hundreds of them made lots of gold because the items were desirable before the next raiding tier opened. So much gold that, if that model happened every tier, it would have predictable consequences that Blizzard would like to avoid. In the patches thereafter the crafting 'orb' was a boss drop only and that's when I found them to be prohibitive even though I was raiding.
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9 Draenei Priest
0
Personally, I left the game for nearly 6 months because of the crap with 'living steal'. It seemed to me then as it still does that ...Blizzard only want the rich to get richer and everyone else just 'get gone'.

I am still not seeing armor drops from LFR bosses and certainly NOT enchanting mats like haunting spirits. (Selling for $14K on my server when they show up at all.)

What encouragement is there to go after acheivements such as 'jack of all trades' or having multiple max level characters when it does not come along with decent perks? (Come on the rep from filling orders is just dumb, ignorant and rather insulting that Blizzard thinks that's going to make us all just go away and shut up.)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8750
If these weren't supposed to be raider exclusives, then why just have them appear with random discoveries? The fact that Silk is still BOP is annoying enough, but discovering a 522 pattern and having no chance in hell of crafting it to help my Normal Raid group get gear because we need the gear that drops, so no chance to de...cycle that.

Frustrating.
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9 Draenei Priest
0
Amen!!!

Well said and so true!!!
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90 Orc Warrior
14095
If these weren't supposed to be raider exclusives, then why just have them appear with random discoveries? The fact that Silk is still BOP is annoying enough, but discovering a 522 pattern and having no chance in hell of crafting it to help my Normal Raid group get gear because we need the gear that drops, so no chance to de...cycle that.


I learned the healing helm pattern today. Ill never want one, but im going to let trade know I can make it. Ill charge a nice fee and make some gold.

We have always needed a raid drop for the better gear. Be glad they aren't BOP raid only drops this time.
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90 Human Warlock
11180
What makes this different is now the crafters are given the patterns to make this stuff. I for one was more then happy not having the pat or mats to make something then have it and not have the mats. At the very lest non raiders should be able to DE the 522 VP items as it would take far longer due to weekly cap to make one item. The lowest amount of HS needed for any of the craft-ables is 6, that's at lest 6 weeks. And unlike Cata there are no BoE VP items so this is a fixed rate.

And for the record I find this an issue not cause I can't raid, I actually have chosen not to for the time being. I started raiding when new Naxx opened did that 3 times a week every week till Ulduar open, took a break and started again when LK opened bouncing from healing and DPS 3 times a week going up to 4 times till the end of DS.

I stopped for two reasons,
1. was getting burned out.
2. I wanted to see just how much was truly open far as content to a non raider.

This HS item issue is only more apparent as crafters are given the skill to make something with no chance at mats where as before, and im sure the people that even want to hate on this thread can agree, you had to be in the raid to get the pattern to drop.

Now others have said that after a time the HS will make it to the AH. As a long time raider I can rather surely that would be a long time. Other raiders can probable back me on this.
Standard raid looting what ever system is used comes down too main spec, after that's done for the raid off spec, DE roll and then who ever gets it ether sits on it or sells it.

Now in this scenario by the time half of this raid team is geared a non raider would at best not buying any gear aside from a 522 vp to break would have maybe made 1 item.

Now if it did work out like that I don't see this de option just tossing crafted epics into the system faster then what raiders would get. Also Keep in mind these are just head and feet were talking about not T-sets
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