5.3 -Spriest Please hit them with the NerfBat

90 Blood Elf Priest
5620
03/27/2013 11:15 PMPosted by Vesperlynd
Um do you realize DP lasts for like 3 seconds. If they kept that change mixing it with shadow word insanity would ko someone in 3 seconds. please learn shadow priest b4 you start typing.


I don't know what is sadder, that you are trying to prove I'm clueless about shadow priest. Or that you really are clueless.

Devouring Plague
Level 90

1 Shadow Orbs
40 yd range

Instant cast
Requires Priest (Shadow)
Requires level 21

Consumes all of the caster's Shadow Orbs to deal 1643 (+ 78.6% of SpellPower) Shadow damage and an additional 274 (+ 13.1% of SpellPower) Shadow damage every 1 sec for 6 sec. Also heals the caster for 1% of their maximum health when it deals periodic damage.

Damage and healing increased based on the number of Shadow Orbs consumed.


my mistake typed 3 instead of 6.
Edited by Turmoyl on 3/27/2013 11:44 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
16350
lol forgot about that one. basically Spriest is doing good in pve, their single target is meh but on fights where there multi-target they are awsome(which this tier has enough of). Pvp wise they got hit pretty hard but are still pretty good but far from OP.


Look, I'm going to put this bluntly and it's going to come off as rude. If you are not succeeding as a Shadow Priest in PvP right now, it is of no fault but your own. You instantly bring any comp up to viable levels, even stuff that most people don't think of. Friend of mine is currently running Monk-Spriest-Rsham at 2200 MMR with an 85% W/L; that comp would not work anywhere near as well if he swapped himself out for his Warlock and they played MoLS, or if he swapped to his Mage and they played Monk-Mage-Shaman. Nor would it be better with any other DPS class for that matter.

The nerfs you say hit them "pretty hard" are, for the most part, hardly anything massive when you actually look at them in practice rather than in a vacuum:

The healing? The only hit there was Prayer of Mending, because most of Shadow's support is from PW:S and PoM, not spamming Flash Heal or Renew. Halo not hitting enemies in stealth? Brought you in line with stuff like the old Demo Shout change, hardly a nerf and was more to make the opener bearable for Rogues. Dispersion lockout? Needed change to make a Spriest actually have to use their brain when being trained and in danger. Phantasm was a decent hit on an ability that actually needed it. And Psyfiend was absolutely a necessary change (that by the way, isn't completely fixed) to prevent people from trinketing a Psyfiend fear right into another.

It won't happen. If spriests were forced out of their current comps, high CC classes would step in like locks or rogues.


That's a bit of a strawman. Nobody is proposing that you "force spriests out of their current comps". People want reasonable nerfs to a class that is clearly out of balance. But if you want to argue this: is it better if the pendulum has swung the other way and Locks and Rogues are forced out of their comps because Priests are too good? Furthermore, Shadow Priest will always have a place in comps because of the level of support and the additional defensive dispel they bring.
Edited by Algus on 3/28/2013 9:43 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
12065
I was directly refuting the idea that boomkin and elementals aren't represented because spriests are "too strong." All three classes can fill the same niche to a degree, but the problem is that they both suck in many ways (despite how many high end players CAN play them successfully).

If you manage to obliterate spriests so that they aren't taken (bearing in mind that we have already been nerfed a TON in 5.2. People aren't satisfied because while our strength diminished, our comps didn't change. Why? Because of the state of the game. If damage wasn't as out of control, our offhealing wouldn't be NECESSARY), all you do is destroy the type of comp being run.

That is my point. That there are so many problems with boomkin and elemental that to think that their representation suffers because spriests are "so amazing" is laughable.
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90 Human Warlock
0
Shadow priest will be well represented until they nerf mass dispel. My main is a priest and this ability is the reason why you see priests in many comps. Like others have said, there is so much cc in this game, that it makes mass dispel so powerful. Everything else is fine with shadow.

Last thing. People have been mentioning all the nerfs to priests this x-pac, which most were justified. Remember how good spectral guise was at launch :)
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90 Undead Priest
12065
I never said the nerfs weren't warranted. Some things were just too crazy. That being said, some people ignore the fact that we have already been beaten with the nerfbat and just assume since the comps didn't change that we are still broken.

If Mass Dispel is the issue, then maybe the glyph is a good place to start.
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1 Human Warlock
0
I never said the nerfs weren't warranted. Some things were just too crazy. That being said, some people ignore the fact that we have already been beaten with the nerfbat and just assume since the comps didn't change that we are still broken.


Balance is an ongoing process. Just because you have been nerfed once doesn't mean it is someone else's turn now. If you are still overpowered, you will be nerfed.
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90 Undead Priest
12065
The problem is that PvP'ers never stop calling for nerfs. Until people are handed their glads, they will always pick on a class until they are able to walk all over them, at which point they pick a NEW scapegoat for why they are terrible.

The only thing people keep harping about in regards to spriests being OP is the representation. The only two abilities that even merit a discussion are Void Shift and Mass Dispel. The former is counterable (believe it or not), and the latter is largely an issue with the Glyph.

Tweaking neither one of those is using a "nerfbat." Which is exactly what this thread is calling for.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Look, I'm going to put this bluntly and it's going to come off as rude. If you are not succeeding as a Shadow Priest in PvP right now, it is of no fault but your own. You instantly bring any comp up to viable levels, even stuff that most people don't think of.


Spriest carries comps now lol. where exactly did i say Spriest suck in pvp? i could of sworn i said they were good.

Friend of mine is currently running Monk-Spriest-Rsham at 2200 MMR with an 85% W/L; that comp would not work anywhere near as well if he swapped himself out for his Warlock and they played MoLS, or if he swapped to his Mage and they played Monk-Mage-Shaman. Nor would it be better with any other DPS class for that matter.


"friend of mine" "if". so you have no concrete evidence.

The nerfs you say hit them "pretty hard" are, for the most part, hardly anything massive when you actually look at them in practice rather than in a vacuum


No they were actually pretty massive and the next things you say proves my point for me

The healing? The only hit there was Prayer of Mending, because most of Shadow's support is from PW:S and PoM, not spamming Flash Heal or Renew. Halo not hitting enemies in stealth? Brought you in line with stuff like the old Demo Shout change, hardly a nerf and was more to make the opener bearable for Rogues.


Yea you are right people were not complaining about Spriest self healing /sarcasm. Read the patch notes, mending and renew were not the only healing spells nerfed . Halo not hitting stealth was a nerf the bring it in line with similar abilities jjust like classes that get nerfed to bring them in line with other, do you even know what nerf means?

Dispersion lockout? Needed change to make a Spriest actually have to use their brain when being trained and in danger. Phantasm was a decent hit on an ability that actually needed it. And Psyfiend was absolutely a necessary change (that by the way, isn't completely fixed) to prevent people from trinketing a Psyfiend fear right into another.


Those are all nerfs that affected Spriest in a big way. what is your point in mentioning this, rather it was needed or not i didn't comment on it, i merely pointed them out.
Edited by Fayte on 3/28/2013 9:09 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
12075
The problem is that PvP'ers never stop calling for nerfs
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90 Draenei Shaman
16350
Spriest carries comps now lol. where exactly did i say Spriest suck in pvp? i could of sworn i said they were good.


Your first sentence is actually correct. A good Shadow Priest can carry a comp if they know how to play. They are far and away the single best DPS class in the game right now. Try it for yourself.

"friend of mine" "if". so you have no concrete evidence.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/malganis/Anc/pvp#3v3

Shaman left his team, but their team MMR was at 2200 and they were playing multiglads and r1 players (players like Karvinen) fairly regularly. Try again.

No they were actually pretty massive and the next things you say proves my point for me


If they were massive, then Shadow Priests would not be replacing Warlocks at all levels of play. They would not be replacing other classes at high levels of play. They would not be the single best DPS class in the game. I don't think you understand the word "massive".

Those are all nerfs that affected Spriest in a big way. what is your point in mentioning this, rather it was needed or not i didn't comment on it, i merely pointed them out.


The Dispersion change only affected Priests who don't understand how to play and are trying to hard cast while at 30% and being trained. As I said, the Phantasm and Psyfiend changes were bigger and much more needed, but I'll go ahead and say it even more clearly now: even those targeted nerfs didn't get at what makes Shadow insanely good. Life Swap and Mass Dispel are the two spells that push Shadow over the top. Erebos pointed out a few posts ago that the MD glyph is at the center of the issue, and that's where the first change should come; making it Holy/Disc only is probably necessary at this point.

The problem is that PvP'ers never stop calling for nerfs


The rest of your posts tell me you're smarter than this, so why would you make such an asinine and inane statement? You're completely generalizing a broad spectrum of the population, each having their own opinions on the state of the game based on their experiences and the level of PvP they play. The same stuff goes on in PvE - people argue that "my class/spec needs a buff because it's not that good in raids!" or "No your spec is okay because raidbots says it's okay". Then you have people who actually do high-end raiding saying theory means nothing, because in practice it's unworkable - hell, on the very front page there is a thread entitled "Windwalker feels unslottable in ToT heroics" in which you have multiple people arguing over mechanics of WW Monks, both their raid utility (or lack thereof) and their DPS.
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90 Human Priest
4455
03/29/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Ngatayou
The problem is that PvP'ers never stop calling for nerfs


Slightly squishier SL/SL lock with near demo levels of burst and the self healing of a Wrath Aff lock doesn't need nerfed?

Because things that are OP'd should be nerfed. And if it's exceedingly easy to do well in PVP with a Shadow Priest, then that likely means they need a nerf.


Spriest self healing isn't that great. 28k flash heals, 5 renew ticks 19k POM is not much. Also Demo doesn't have to hard cast anything ever. You have to hard cast to do any damage as Shadow.
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90 Undead Priest
12065
The rest of your posts tell me you're smarter than this, so why would you make such an asinine and inane statement?


Fair enough. I should have worded it much differently.

My issue is that some people, regardless of the merit of the discussion, will always be looking for the next person's head on the chopping block. This doesn't mean that everyone asking for spriest nerfs is that type of person. The problem is that it is hard to separate the noise from the valid complaints.

Complaining about Void Shift or Mass Dispel is at least a valid topic of discussion, whether or not they are as OP as the community deems. I won't attempt to give credit or discredit it, as I am not a gladiator. I have personal experience with Void Shift on both sides of the coin, and i do feel that at least at the level of play I have seen, that it is counterable. Which in my eyes says something, as normally the "insurmountable mountains" that players view come from the average end of the community. The Mass Dispel glyph, the more I think about it, is a stupid amount of utility in at least RBG's.

I'm not 100% certain it is quite as broken in small scale PvP, but perhaps we shouldn't OK something just because it isn't as broken as it COULD be.

That being said, with the current state of the game being what it is, I pose a question to you: Is the stupid amount of utility provided by glyphed MD actually a necessity? Would the game improve without it? Speaking strictly in terms of RBGs, where the abuse of it is probably the most noticeable. I wonder if the complaints about the state of PvP would actually become far more exaggerated with the removal of that glyph. The straw that broke the camel's back, if you would. Please note that I am not arguing for it to stay because "AMG I WANT TO BE A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE." Just noting that PvP is on very shaky ground in some areas.

*Scratches beard* The glyph probably does need more restriction, whatever restriction that may be. They really need to look into group CC's though moving into the future.

Complaining about class representation and how it pertains to whether or not someone is balanced is what I take issue with, at least when this is taken in a void which *some* of the posters in here have done.
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1 Human Warlock
0
One interpretation, Pocket Shadow = "Get out of Jail" free card potentially every 15 secs. It is unnecessary.

Option 1:

Mass Dispel - 1 minute Cooldown for Shadow Only.

This way it is used as a counter to Ice Block/Divine Shield and/or used strategically to dispel your healers/teammates. It doesn't trivialize the CC chain that an enemy team finally manages to throw.

It will be in line with other classes like rets who can defensively dispel their healers CC.

Option 2:

Mana Cost of Mass Dispel increased to 26% or more of base mana cost for Shadow Only.
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90 Undead Priest
12065
If you play with the total cost of MD, you destroy its utility in PvE for holy and disc. Shadow only might be an awkward design decision, for mana costs.

I think a removal of the glyph (make it baseline for disc/holy, gives them utility that makes sense for the toolkit) should be the first baby step. No reason to jump the gun and overdo something, as MD certainly has its necessities in PvE (especially for 10mans, where you often won't have both a spriest AND a healing priest)
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1 Human Warlock
0
The only reason for the glyph to exist is to be able to remove Ice Block/Divine Shield right away.

And it is an optional glyph. Not everyone takes it. It is infact not needed when you go against non-mage/paladin teams.

It is more of an issue that a Shadowpriest can Mass Dispel every 15 secs than it is that their mass dispel takes 1.5 secs to cast.

Sure it is easier to interrupt a 1.5 sec cast, rather than a 0.5 sec cast.

I personally feel the glyph promotes skill. If you can anticipate a block and you/your team make sure you can get the immunity off the moment it is cast, that is pure awesomeness. I wouldn't want this glyph gone.
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1 Human Warlock
0
No reason to jump the gun and overdo something, as MD certainly has its necessities in PvE (especially for 10mans, where you often won't have both a spriest AND a healing priest)


Give me one PVE encounter where Shadow Priests are required to Mass Dispel every 15 secs. Ok letz be reasonable, at least 2 times every minutes.

Heroic Spirit Kings - Sure mass dispel was useful. But even then you could run with a warrior/sym feral or simply just wait out the shield to run its duration. And even then it was done twice at the most.
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90 Undead Priest
12065
Wind Lord. I can't remember the exact timer, but it was very often. I want to say 15-30seconds.

If it was given a 30second cooldown, I don't believe that would break anything in PvE. Anything over 45seconds might require some redesigns for 10man, which are doable but they tend to frown on doing it more than necessary.
Edited by Erebos on 3/29/2013 3:32 PM PDT
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1 Human Warlock
0
Wind Lord. I can't remember the exact timer, but it was very often. I want to say 15-30seconds.

If it was given a 30second cooldown, I don't believe that would break anything in PvE. Anything over 45seconds might require some redesigns for 10man, which are doable but they tend to frown on doing it more than necessary.


Some 10 mans don't have priests. I honestly don't think any PVE encounter will be designed where a priest and hence a mass dispel is MANDATORY.

I don't recall anything being dispellable on Wind Lord. Are you thinking of some other encounter?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Your first sentence is actually correct. A good Shadow Priest can carry a comp if they know how to play. They are far and away the single best DPS class in the game right now. Try it for yourself.

you are basically saying "doesnt matter what your gear or skill is, as long as you have an Spriest u will win" idiocy at its best


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/malganis/Anc/pvp#3v3

Shaman left his team, but their team MMR was at 2200 and they were playing multiglads and r1 players (players like Karvinen) fairly regularly. Try again.


yea your friends mmr rating is fact now? this basically tells me nothing but his mmr rating. try again

If they were massive, then Shadow Priests would not be replacing Warlocks at all levels of play. They would not be replacing other classes at high levels of play. They would not be the single best DPS class in the game. I don't think you understand the word "massive".


um they are not replacing warlocks if i actually have to go into detail about why warlocks are desirable in rbgs than you have a lot bigger problems than just Spriests. calling Spriest the best dps in the game is really reaching to try and prove your argument and everyone knows thats not true. Last of all, rather you feel the nerfs were enough are not is irrelevant to if they were massive or not. They huge nerfs. it is you who does not know what massive is.

The Dispersion change only affected Priests who don't understand how to play and are trying to hard cast while at 30% and being trained. As I said, the Phantasm and Psyfiend changes were bigger and much more needed, but I'll go ahead and say it even more clearly now: even those targeted nerfs didn't get at what makes Shadow insanely good. Life Swap and Mass Dispel are the two spells that push Shadow over the top. Erebos pointed out a few posts ago that the MD glyph is at the center of the issue, and that's where the first change should come; making it Holy/Disc only is probably necessary at this point.


must be trolling because i clearly said i just merely pointed them out. rationalize it however you want to, nerfs are nerfs even if you feel like they are not. Heres a hint on if something is a nerf or not. If the ability worked better before the change guess what? it got nerfed.

The problem is you want Spriest completely gutted. you can possibly argue mass dispel is needs a longer cd and that is understandable but Void shift seriously? a spell that can only be used 1-2 times a game. Heres another funny point as well. making MD holy/dcs only is gonna just have those comps that depended on it get disc/holy priest instead.
Edited by Fayte on 3/29/2013 4:37 PM PDT
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