how to handle bank ninja

90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
eliil,why is it every 1-3 days i see you on here talking about something bad that happened in your guild and you need help.then i always see your guild name changed. you... are killing your guilds man Dx


Those are fair and legitimate questions. For the first half the question, I talk about topics that I see as relevant and could use advice with. Although I've certainly had my issues with these forums, I've got lots of great advice from this forum, and have been able to make better decisions, and as you probably seen from this thread, I've received great and sound advice on how handle this particular situation. As far as the frequency of my post is concerned, so long as I am getting good feedback, and exchanging ideas that are helping me making better decisions, which is happening all the time, I see no reason to stop posting.

To the second half of the question, obviously Eliil is my main forum alt, and needs to be in a guild with a pretty thick skin, hence why she's been moved around a lot for various reasons, for the sake of privacy, I will not comment on the details. I will speak in a general sense though, I've made it VERY clear now to any GM whose guild I join, where I stand, that if it's the case, that anything I say, do on the forums or elsewhere is something that they feel is negatively affecting their reputation in anyway, to talk to me about it so I can make that decision if it's something I can change, or more likely, simply leave. It's not a crime to be who you are, hence why most of my alts have been guild hopping quite a lot recently.

And please enough about the damn yak, that was during a difficult time for me after a mass exodus when few people were left in the guild that I particular cared for, it's how I made friends with the lovely lady that's helping me get that epic mount, she chose to help me and have my back why other people were just siding with trolls out to grief, so OF COURSE her feelings and her friend's feelings matter to me, the fact is she telling me she wouldn't be comfortable putting stuff in the guild bank if she knows someone is going to just take everything (and there's no way I would go taking out guild money for my own gain so long as she and a few other new friends I made our in the guild) so this the yak business is a dead horse, though yes I admit the fact that she's someone helping me a lot, is why when this issue comes up of someone taking stuff out of the guild bank, that it's appropriate for me to carefully consider everything, even if it's not something I am fussed about personally.

The situation is basically this, I don't give a damn what is taken out of the guild bank, BUT the people that are helping me do, and yes, I told them my stance that I do not particular care about the stuff in the guild bank, BUT if they feel that they can't put stuff in because they don't like what people are doing with what they take out, well their feelings MATTER. Even if I know in my heart they would respect my decision, to let whatever I want happen with the bank, if they feel that they can't put items into the guild bank, because of what someone else is doing with the items from the bank, that simply doesn't sit well with me as it means the guild can't really help its members as much, which will drive people away.

Anyway, I wanted to thank Chatte for this:

"Unfortunately bank permissions are by character not by player, so since your <brother, cousin, girlfriend> can't be trusted to respect the rules of the guild bank, i am going to have to remove permissions from your character, I hope you can understand that"

"Additionally I should point out that account sharing can result in a permanent ban, so you might want to make sure to get your <brother, cousin, girlfriend> off your account permanently as soon as possible."

Mmm, that's probably the best way to handle that issue.
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90 Draenei Paladin
6160
If you are going to lead a guild, you are obligated to protect guild resources. Those who contributed the banquets would have given gold to your friend if that were their intent.

All the members of the guild contribute to the bank balance when they quest and do challenges so why only allow lvl 90s to have repairs? I wouldn't join such a guild. Would you work for the benefit of a small cliques of officers and buddies of the GL? Even as a guild leader, the items and gold in the bank aren't yours to squander or allow a buddy of yours to squander.

As for your situation, i'd send a mail asking for an explanation and give that person a chance to refund the amount taken. I would remove their bank access until the gold is returned. If they care any about you as a friend or the welfare of the guild, they will repay that which was taken. Otherwise they will leave and you will be better off without them.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
Mmmm, yes Holanya, thats what I have been trying to tell myself. As for only level 90's having repairs, that isn't the case with my guild, low levels can get repairs but only a very small amount. I would consider increasing it, if I felt that the guild could afford it. The level 90's simply become entitled to more repairs, but it's a difficult balancing act of knowing what you can afford and what you can return to people.

I already have sent a mail asking for an explanation the member in question was online today, but he did not reply to my letter...rather odd. He just promoted some people up some ranks and then took off. So might have to consider a demotion after I check the guild log if anything else was taken without explanation?
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89 Tauren Druid
2760
I would say that if he is not only ignoring you, but is also purposefully taking more stuff from the bank, it is time to boot him. If he hasn't withdrawn anything from the bank, though, he may just not have checked his mail, or he may be giving himself time to compose a decent response.
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88 Dwarf Priest
13780
Give yourself a gut check. If anyone else in your guild grabbed dozens of feasts and cleared out the bank of cloth, would you be able to tell everyone else "Yeah, I'm totally fine with John Doe taking all our feasts and cloth -- in fact, you too can take as many feasts and as much cloth as you want"?

Set aside the feelings of obligation you have for this officer. He helped you cap conquest points. Great. But today he is making your guild feel like he's profiting off of their work and trust.

It could be that your officer just didn't know what expectations were for items in the guild bank, so he didn't think twice about using all the cloth in the bank to powerlevel his alt's tailoring, or make a quick buck to pay for an enchant by selling off all the feasts. You don't need to "confront", but you can ask what he used all the cloth and feasts for. Make a decision and have it something that you're OK with defending.


I agree w/ this!
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14 Human Mage
0
A long time ago in another guild, I had similar complaints about someone in guild. I questioned them nicely why they took stacks of glyphs and gems out (gems I had worked like crazy to provide) and was told "I need gold so auctioned them." I explained no, that's not the purpose of a guild bank and they had an hour to restore what was taken or suffer a kick. They did return the items and then quit themselves.

For those of us in large guilds, we probably can recognize the people that do this. We had someone join a week ago that was bugging for runs for mounts (new 80, done in an obnoxious way, not a "hey anyone want to try for 3D?") and begging for gold. He got a warning letter in mail and insta-quit. Luckily our bank is locked super down. Anyone CAN ask for things from it, just need to send a letter to GM so that way it feels like our contributions matters. Epic BOES, spirits, recipes are all there for ANYONE in guild, not just raiders--just have to ask and be willing to pony up 10% of the asking AH price.

Depends on the guild though--I can see a strict raiding guild having a plan set in place to help gear up raiders (though these guilds need to remember that they might have a few casuals in roster that fill in for raiders)--but as a larger guild, it makes sense that it should benefit ALL of us in some way and not just "need gold" because we all do.

As for gold, I've never cared about auctioning or any of that. Actually, one of my more noobish moments at start of game (oh so many), was that I thought auction house and gold was a mini-game within a game I could ignore, until embarrassingly late in BC I realized no, I should pay attention a bit. I've always tried to save up for new expansions but have been meh on that part of the game until lately (usually just kept like 10k or so around for repairs or anything special I wanted). Last month or so I've actually payed attention and been messing with it and in a few short weeks I've made like 100k on a middling server. So yes, not difficult, probably should have done before now. People whining about gold get my stock response which is "Do some dailies or have a gathering profession."

(Heck even a new alt I've been leveling has made like 4k just questing to 80)
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
hai all, thanks for feedback, I asked the officer in question in mail for an explanation regarding his behavior, unfortunately when I was last online the same time as him, I was very focused on raiding at the time so I overlooked the issue, and hoped that things would settle down, unfortunately I got another complaint about him being a 'bank ninja' by taking out all of these enchants (5 windsong enchants for a weapon, a pretty important enchant) and dozens of more feasts.

So I had to make that tough decision and demoted him, and sent him another mail saying I can't give you officer rank back until I get a full explanation of what you are using these materials for, it's a tough decision, but the point is, that the guild is in its 3rd generation, I've been through 2 big exodus's because I didn't pay attention to issues like this, and I'm not in the mood for a 3rd, so want to get this issue sorted out. I can't just sit back, and ignore the people that helped save the guild from extinction at what was a VERY rough time for me, so was this the right decision you think?
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
((Continued...))

*sigh* finally got a letter back from the officer (that I demoted 2 ranks) regarding his guild bank activity, where I asked for an explanation and I got one word from him only.

'sorry'. That was it? No explanation or nothing? Now what?

Nevermind, apparently he left the guild...sigh, not what I wanted, as he was a good guildie...did a lot. I just wish he would have been willing to talk to me or one of the other officers about this issue.

The other officers are telling me it should be me that deals with someone else of a high rank that's taking a lot of stuff from the guild bank. Now there is another guildie that's apparently taking all these glyphs and stuff that's upsetting other guildies, and I don't want to log in and have him rage-quit over this issue.
Edited by Eliil on 4/9/2013 8:33 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13365
((Continued...))

*sigh* finally got a letter back from the officer (that I demoted 2 ranks) regarding his guild bank activity, where I asked for an explanation and I got one word from him only.

'sorry'. That was it? No explanation or nothing? Now what?

Nevermind, apparently he left the guild...sigh, not what I wanted, as he was a good guildie...did a lot. I just wish he would have been willing to talk to me or one of the other officers about this issue.


Doing a lot does not warrant taking tons of stuff regularly from the gbank for personal use or selling. That does not make a good guildie.

The other officers are telling me it should be me that deals with someone else of a high rank that's taking a lot of stuff from the guild bank. Now there is another guildie that's apparently taking all these glyphs and stuff that's upsetting other guildies, and I don't want to log in and have him rage-quit over this issue.


As a guild leader, you need to be in charge. YOU are the leader and you're the one who should address/deal with your officers. You've had many good suggestions in the thread on how to do that.

You're concerned over someone rage quitting because you have to tell him/her that they're abusing the bank? You shouldn't be. That type of guildie doesn't belong in your guild. Talk to them, make sure they understand what they're doing is wrong and if they don't correct their behavior, kick them.

Do you have a written guild policy? Are all your guildies aware of the rules?
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70 Gnome Mage
0
I agree with Moonphyre. As GM, it is your job to deal with officers who are causing issues, breaking rules, whatever. And no, I wouldn't waste any time feeling bad over someone rage-quitting (or having a tantrum, rather. yeah, i'm a mom, lol) because they were called on their poor behavior.

And again, same as Moon, I'm wondering if you have a written policy regarding your guild bank. If not, create one ASAP. That way, the next time someone steps out of line with withdrawals, you can just point to the rules.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
There isn't much room to put the guild bank rules in general guild info BUT the rules are clear in each of the guild tabs, that if you going to take stuff, please put other stuff back in return. Hm, I think will try and squeeze in info to guild bank rules in the tabs.
Edited by Eliil on 4/10/2013 6:24 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13365
There isn't much room to put the guild bank rules in general guild info BUT the rules are clear in each of the guild tabs, that if you going to take stuff, please put other stuff back in return. Hm, I think will try and squeeze in info to guild bank rules in the tabs.


You can try putting this on the Info tab for your bank tabs but I find the average guildie does not read those .. at all.

Our guild policy is posted on our website and everyone is expected to have read and understood it. If you don't have a guild site, there are a number of places that offer free hosting for your guild site.
Edited by Moonphyre on 4/10/2013 2:17 PM PDT
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70 Gnome Mage
0
Haha agreeing with Moon again. If you don't have a guild site, it's pretty easy to get one set up and put your rules on there.

Also, along with the "take stuff in, put stuff back" rule, you might consider adding a couple of others (if you don't have them already), like "items taken from the vault are to be used only for toons in this guild," or "items in the vault are not to be withdrawn and sold."
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
I have some very STRONG reservations against doing a guild website again (won't go into detail it's pretty personal reasons), it's not so bad, the guildie that left due to this issue raided with me today, and that was all fine, there was no arguments or anything with him specifically. The guild has gone through some massive changes recently, though I think it's an absolute no brainer to not go taking stuff out of guild for your alts in other guilds (unless of course it's a sister guild to your guild, which my guild has) though I do understand the logic behind what you are saying.

You are saying not to mourn him leaving, but I still think it was a shame to lose a good player from the guild, that could have possibly helped with PVP battles and other fun stuff in the future because of this issue. For now, I managed to squeeze in guild info "check guild bank tabs for bank rules" or some such, and I am hoping that will be enough. Again, while I ultimately don't care so much about what is taken, the guildies that are contributing by doing guild scenarios and other guild runs and other stuff, those are the people whose feelings I am carefully thinking about.

PS
Oh thank you kindly for your feedback and support you two.
Edited by Eliil on 4/10/2013 3:49 PM PDT
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