I am not happy...DPS is low...

90 Undead Mage
10880
I am sitting at an ilvl 504 and i can barely keep above 100k dps...during the first 2min of a fight i am able to but otherwise i drop so far down it is not funny...

any tips on improvement?
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90 Worgen Mage
12595
I'm in a similar boat. I can do decent dps over 100k, but the similarly geared warlock is blowing me away on the meters on most non-cleave fights.

I think we need more crit rating.
Edited by Mistwynd on 3/28/2013 3:27 AM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
10880
It isnt about the crit....its more about the fact we are cannons but fights dont allow us to be..
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90 Undead Mage
12695
play frost. You'll be able to play fire once you hit 515. That's all.
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90 Undead Mage
10880
@Blinkdog, I totally agree. It is just that I am asking to see if there is anything i can do to improve on dps....as my raid spot is no longer secure as being the only mage in the guild.

@Del...tried frost and found it boring, clunky and annoying.
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
^The more movement there is, the more the fight will favor Fire Mages over Frost & Arcane, because Frost & Arcane can't use Scorch anymore.

If you're playing Frost, the only DPS you have while you're moving is if up have FoF or Brain Freeze procs up. I've never raided as Arcane and don't know what spells they can cast on the move. But other than Barrage (if they have 4 charges) I can't think of anything else, and if they barrage they lose all their charges when the movement stops.

I actually prefer the developer attitude of making it so mages can do a lot of damage while they're standing still, but little damage on the move. They just need to fix the numbers so that we can out DPS other classes by at least 120% when we are turreting, which isn't the case right now. The reason I like it is because it makes them a unique dps class, one that does exceptional damage while standing still. The other DPS classes can more or less use their spells on the move.

It probably is obvious that the people at Blizz balancing the classes are probably not the same ones making the new raid encounters though. The mages were all severely handicapped when 5.2 began and they ended up buffing our bombs. It's really ironic because many people predicted pre-5.2 that mages would take a big hit. I don't know how none of the developers failed to pick up on it.

The problem with Ice Floes is that it only allows 2 spells on the move at the moment, which is stupid. There have been countless suggestions on how to re-work it which all go unheard. Many people have predicted that the events that will follow will be a nerf on PoM and then Blazing Speed, and then finally a change to Ice Floes when they realize the overwhelming majority of mages never use it.

Ice Floes probably only works best in fights with moderate movement, which are rare. We usually have fights with little movement (PoM wins here) or extreme movement (Scorch was the go-to for these fights which only Fire can use now).
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90 Worgen Mage
16665
Even standing still on a patchwerk type fight, our DPS is not on par with others at the moment. I know that simulations say otherwise, but those are just simulations. The bombs have effectively made the class a DoT class and personally I did not roll a mage to be a DoT class. I raided as a warlock back in BC and although I do like that play style on the lock, I fell in love with the hard casting damage of a mage and haven't looked back.

From a PvE standpoint, they made the raids to difficult to stand in one spot and be effective. you constantly have to move which puts us at a disadvantage over every other DPS class because the rest can all move and DPS at 100% capacity. We do have scorch and pyro procs, but scorch is a filler and not a out right DPS gain, it's just something to do while you have to move and since the majority of the fights are moving, we don't get to hard cast much at all. So either tone down the moving, or allow us to cast 100% of the time like the others.

From a PvP standpoint, this game has become Stun Wars of the Old Republic. This was exactly why I couldn't invest time in SWTOR PvP because it all came down to the amount of damage you could do inside a stun. I know people complain about counter spell and blanket silences, but we already have trouble killing a healer (almost impossible) because of all the instant heals, without the blanket silence, I don't think we'd be able to kill them at all to be honest. PvP needs a major overhaul because of all the stuns and the trinket needs reworked as well. Right now you trinket a cc and your back into one, spell locked and dead all within a matter of 6 seconds in full resilience gear. This includes every class, not just mages alone. PvP is more broken now than it has been any previous expansion.

I'm not a top tier PvP'er and I don't like the changes to the way elite gear is either, nor the way you can get it now. I don't play on the skill level to get it, I don't deserve to have it and it was a prestige thing to be able to obtain it. That's the way that it should have been left. PvP gear could have kept normal stats like in vanilla days and all PvE gear could have had it's stats cut 50% upon entering a PvP environment to mitigate top tier PvP'er going for heroic gear / trinkets to PvP with. Could also have made PvP gears stats cut 50% upon zoning into a PvE instance as an exchange. That way it promotes you actaull working in each environment to get the gear you need to compete.

Also, we're the only class that has to maintain a buff (lvl 90 talents) to put out mediocre DPS. I'm aware we have RnG swings, but we were nerfed because of our cleave on one fight in a knee jerk reaction. I'm not asking to be put on top, but I'm asking for the chance to be on top. Hunters and Warlocks have been there the past two patch cycles and they are still way up there. buff us to at least be on par with them, not over them.
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90 Goblin Mage
12715
Not all DPS classes can move and do entire rotations. Shadowpriest cannot, for example. It's main filler is a channel and mindblast. Only a select few classes can do jumping jacks and merrily shoot, but the idea is dumb anyway.

Blizzard shouldn't give mages the ability to move and shoot like warlocks or hunters. They should take away the other classes' ability to do it instead, because it's absurd to have dps reducing movement mechanics, but then build in ways for classes to do full dps anyway. At that point, you might as well just make it a patchwerk fight without the movement!

It makes no sense to make something and then make something to counter what you just did.
Edited by Aloistrancy on 3/28/2013 9:22 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
14585
I really don't understand how you guys are having DPS issues as Mages.

I am playing frost at ilevel 505, and I am consistantly beating my group DPS and by quite a margin. We are all pretty much ilevel 500.

In LFR, same scenario. On a fight like Mageara where people just sit and DPS, I was 1st as usual.

On fights with movements like Horridon, it is fairly simple. Use Frost Bomb + Blazing speed. (I always use Blazing speed, but I change my bombs between Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb often). By having a combination of those 2, you know for sure when you will have procs. I prioritize Blazing Speed over Blink, since it is not on the GCD. So you need to learn how to move properly that's all. Here is an exemple:

As you have Frost bomb, you don't have to worry about FFB procs clipping. You have 6-10 secs to save it, do so! Lets say theres a charge on a player near you and you have to move. Don't move right away, finish your Frost bolt cast, and I even cast a second one. Once it's done, hit Blazing + use your FFB proc (consuming your GCD) after you are out of the damaging area cast your stuff again.

This is how i constantly move and I find it barely affects my DPS. People argue that fire has better mobility, well I refute that. I agree that Scorch is nice WHILE moving, but as I demonstrated, if done properly (it does take a while to master) you can move with no impact on your casts. It boils down to comparing Scorch damage vs Icelances and FFB, and obvisouly each of those does 3 times the damage Scorch does.

Maybe you guys move way to much? After playing Arcane in 5.1 i learned to anticipate where to put my next tunes and sit on it, thus limiting movement while maintaining my turret DPS
Edited by Solidpat on 3/28/2013 9:45 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
15975
To the OP, Fire takes a lot more knowledge per fight to make it magic. This will get less so as you get closer to 522. IMHO, you should try Frost out at least, and see if you like it.

I move fine with Frost. On Tortos, the worst fight for movement afaik, the environment is so target rich, that you can get plenty of procs if you spend your proc builders wisely. I will not say I ENJOY it as a mage, but it can be done.

I agree though, that we seem to have had that edge of our dps being higher on turret and low on movement dulled beyond the point that our "movement aids" can recover.

Oh well... adapt and overcome or don't and fail.
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90 Orc Mage
13695
Notice how almost everyone who has replied so far has already switched to frost?

That, alone, should be one HELL of a red flag to the devs.

Arcane is gimped to death and needs a straight out buff. We are flat out doomed in 5.2 whether anyone wants to admit it or not. We have been essentially designed out of a raid tier. What's worse? I haven't seen one word from Blizz even acknowledging this fact since the bomb buff crumb they threw us.

No, I'm not switching to frost or fire, I hate them both. I shouldn't HAVE to switch. I'm ok with being on the bottom of the charts for many fights, but from a raid leader's perspective, why bring me at all? I went from being one of the most productive members of my raid team to useless back-up overnight. I'm not a happy orc.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I really don't understand how you guys are having DPS issues as Mages.

I am playing frost at ilevel 505, and I am consistantly beating my group DPS and by quite a margin. We are all pretty much ilevel 500.


Your group's DPS isn't very good then.
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90 Troll Mage
14585
My DPS last week on the 1st boss 10 man was 146k with an ilevel of 502. I had to drop 3 orbs during the course of the fight.

I wish I could give you my DPS this week as ilevel 505, but I accidently equiped both my PVP trinkets right before the fight and didn't notice/used them.

So my parse last week at 146k @ ilevel 502 should be enough to compare DPS around.

At ilevel 505 on Horridon last night I did finish at 178k.

Take those numbers the way you want but they seem pretty good for my ilevel, meaning our DPS is just fine.
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90 Troll Mage
11580
@Blinkdog, I totally agree. It is just that I am asking to see if there is anything i can do to improve on dps....as my raid spot is no longer secure as being the only mage in the guild.


play frost 6/12 fights ive seen so far and only 2 of em seem to be single target so this should tell u off the bat to go frost
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90 Troll Mage
11580
^The more movement there is, the more the fight will favor Fire Mages over Frost & Arcane, because Frost & Arcane can't use Scorch anymore.


your post is a tad misleading although i do agree with it you are not taking into account of multiple mobs plus fire got nerfed without the lb cleave i can argue and say i do just as much damage as a fire mage with scorch just from frost orb and spamming ice lance while moving arcane on the other hand is just screwed
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
You'll be able to play fire once you hit 515


I'm not so sure even 515 will be enough for fire to overtake frost. Break even maybe, but why play the lottery with fire when frost can do just as much damage?
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90 Troll Mage
11580
I'm not so sure even 515 will be enough for fire to overtake frost. Break even maybe, but why play the lottery with fire when frost can do just as much damage?


more mobs= more chances for FOF to proc=more frost damage overall

i am 512 fire mage and from the data ive done on myself it appears as though fire did overtake frost in single target damage however on multi mob boss fights frost was still doing far better
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90 Blood Elf Mage
9325
Frost iLvl 503 now and averaged 149k DPS on our 2 boss kills Monday before I got an iLvl boost. Average is low mostly because I was screwing up on Jin'Rokh cuz I'm not ultra-elite and make mistakes. My top kill was 159k on Horridon. Now that I got the Thunderforged Dinomancer's staff I imagine I will do even better.

Sooo ya I'm another Frosty posting saying Frost is rocking along nicely. No problems with movement. I can time my movement when I throw out my FrostOrb or when I have a guaranteed BF proc from Frostbomb or even fall back on PoMing a Frostbolt. Frost like any maging DPS is a lot about knowing the fight and when to use your abilities or save them.

I've dabbled in the later on fights in LFR and usually am in the top 3 if not top. Though honestly I expect the 25N versions to be crazier. Have to see.

Yes I want jade spirit for my staff ... I am currently poor. :)
Edited by Frygyd on 3/28/2013 2:06 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
I am playing frost at ilevel 505, and I am consistantly beating my group DPS and by quite a margin. We are all pretty much ilevel 500.


This is the case for me as well, but remember that everything is relative. If you were to get a group of players of every different class that could play their class at 100% of its potential, mages would be sitting handily in the middle of the pack.

Player skill makes the biggest difference. I get crap about it all the time from some people in my guild about how mages are always the best DPS by a gigantic margin. Even this tier some of them are convinced that my being some 30k DPS ahead of the next guy is because I'm a mage, or because my ilvl is ~3-5 points higher than theirs. I don't even bother trying to present facts about it anymore. They can think whatever they want to think.

Though I will very much enjoy the day they have to eat all that crow...should it ever come.
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