Why Mr. Robot, why ?

90 Human Paladin
7295
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/alleria/berith

If I set my gearing strategy to Control/Haste and hit Optimize, Mr. Robot drops my hit/exp/haste :

Physical Hit 6.05% -1.41%
MH Expertise 12.90% -2.07%
Melee Haste 4.17% -2.88%

And it does this even though the caps are set correctly for +3 levels/Bosses, 7.5% hit or 15% expertise.

All of this to jam tons of Stam in my gear...
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90 Human Monk
17840
Control/haste stat weights have stam, hit/exp and mastery really close in value.

Crank hit/exp to 2 and it'll meet the caps.
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Control/haste stat weights have stam, hit/exp and mastery really close in value.

Crank hit/exp to 2 and it'll meet the caps.


If it has Stam so close to hit/exp, why is it favoring Stam so much over hit/exp then ? That makes no sense to me.

It started this recently. It used to put me right under the caps as much as possible. I usually do my own stuff and just use Mr. Robot in a final bid to get my reforges right without having to calculate by hand where to take hit and convert to exp to more closely match the caps as I upgrade pieces.

But for the last 3 weeks, it's been taking away more and more hit/exp from my gear.
Edited by Berith on 3/28/2013 8:23 AM PDT
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90 Human Monk
17840
If it has Stam so close to hit/exp, why is it favoring Stam so much over hit/exp then ? That makes no sense to me.

Because stam is still valued higher.

According to those weights, stam = 1.5, hit/exp ~= 1.1 mastery = 1. That makes a 240 stam gem (slightly) more valuable than a 320 hit/exp one, so it'll fill every gem slot with full/half stam ones, which makes it impossible to meet caps since you don't have enough secondary stats to reforge to.

Mr. Robot is fine if you tweak the weights to your preference. Set stam to zero and let it suggest gearing choices, then you get more health as you feel necessary.
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90 Human Warrior
16760
Mr. Robot is fine if you just do it all yourself anyway


Fixed that one for you.
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Because stam is still valued higher.

According to those weights, stam = 1.5, hit/exp ~= 1.1 mastery = 1. That makes a 240 stam gem (slightly) more valuable than a 320 hit/exp one, so it'll fill every gem slot with full/half stam ones, which makes it impossible to meet caps since you don't have enough secondary stats to reforge to.

Mr. Robot is fine if you tweak the weights to your preference. Set stam to zero and let it suggest gearing choices, then you get more health as you feel necessary.


Unless the default weights changed (which I doubt), it still used to cap me before having me stack tons of stamina.

Fixed that one for you.


Which I've been mostly doing. It's just that sometimes, finding the right combo of items to reforge to either exp or hit to come as close as possible to those caps is a mindless trial/error job and then I pop into Mr. Robot to see what it can do... which for the last 3 weeks has been to put me anywhere from 1% to 2% under caps when my gear is so close to the caps it hurts.

I'm really starting to believe that thing is just broken beyond repair now.
Edited by Berith on 3/28/2013 9:24 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Just noticed something else Litchi, while the weights favor stam, Mr. Robot claims that Control/Haste uses the following priorities :

Hit > Exp > Haste > Stamina > Mastery

So if it's having me drop Hit/Exp/Haste for Stam, then that label is wrong. Hence why I think that as unreliable as Mr.Robot was in the pass, it seems someone just now totally broke it. At least, back like a month ago, it would still cap my hit/exp before having me stack stamina.
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90 Human Monk
17840
It's not broken, it's just a wrong label. You can see the actual priorities by clicking "edit weights", and it'll respect them when optimizing if you modify the values.

Fixed that one for you.

Mr. Robot as a tool is fine, so is wowhead, wowupgrade and similars. I'll tell them how I like my stats and it'll tell me which items would interest me. And from there I'll use my own judgement.

Mr. Robot as a source of advice, on the other hand, doesn't work. There isn't a single right method for gearing up, and one method's values change depending on your context - crit does almost nothing for me on Lei Shi while being stupidly good for Durumu. And it doesn't help that most suggestions are outdated or clearly suboptimal.
Edited by Litchi on 3/28/2013 9:58 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Paladin
0
Under options, down at the bottom, is a check box labeled "Force Hit/Exp Caps"
Check that.
I got;
Physical Hit 7.57% +0.11%
MH Expertise 15.00% +0.03%

Not everyone wants it to hit those caps, so it's configurable.

If you want to de-rate stamina, hit custom weights and drop it from 1.5 to something like 1.3.
Edited by Darmuid on 3/28/2013 1:02 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Under options, down at the bottom, is a check box labeled "Force Hit/Exp Caps"
Check that.
I got;
Physical Hit 7.57% +0.11%
MH Expertise 15.00% +0.03%

Not everyone wants it to hit those caps, so it's configurable.

If you want to de-rate stamina, hit custom weights and drop it from 1.5 to something like 1.3.


Actually, checking those options just makes Mr. Robot go over cap instead of getting you as close as possible while maximizing the stats you put in haste. Also, I know how to change weights, I actually put stam at 0.99 so that it fits right under Haste in order to get it to work.

My actual question was that it only broke like 3 weeks ago. Before then, it would actually respect the order it says it uses, which is :

Hit > Exp > Haste > Stamina > Mastery

Now, it doesn't anymore. Did they change something ? I still do it all by hand, but frankly, doing those last few optimizations to get near but not over hit/exp and get a maximum of items reforged to haste and using haste gems is getting harder and harder. At least Mr. Robot was still good to give me those last few hints about what to reforge, usually 1 or 2 items to swap around.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
The only issue with AMR I've found so far that's lacking on their part as opposed to me being lazy/incomplete with setting stat weights is that there is no option to ignore socket bonuses.

Or at least I can't find the option to. I don't particularly CARE for my 180 dodge socket bonus on my chest and would like to not get it please, AMR.
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90 Tauren Druid
15760
I have found the problem: ask mrrobot
The solution: Stop using ask mrrobot

You don't need AMR to tell you right what gear to use. You don't need AMR to tell you right gems to use. Download a reforge addon to do the rest.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
You don't need AMR to tell you right what gear to use. You don't need AMR to tell you right gems to use. Download a reforge addon to do the rest.
The reforge addon is the same thing as AMR.

I find it kind of funny that people still parrot this when Theck helped code the Prot Pally portion of AMR. No one would tell Theck that he has no idea what he's doing.
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90 Tauren Druid
15760
03/29/2013 08:08 AMPosted by Kangarooster
You don't need AMR to tell you right what gear to use. You don't need AMR to tell you right gems to use. Download a reforge addon to do the rest.
The reforge addon is the same thing as AMR.

I find it kind of funny that people still parrot this when Theck helped code the Prot Pally portion of AMR. No one would tell Theck that he has no idea what he's doing.


Every toon I load into AMR does it wrong. I end up doing the gems, enchants and reforges myself in the end and found it easier using a reforge addon. Gems & enchants are obvious so you don't need AMR to tell you what to use there.

If I just followed AMR's "RPS build" on the site for my current toon I'd lose a bunch of crit & haste in favor of 17k more health and breaking my hit cap. A RPS build would favor hit/exp caps with more crit and haste. Problem here ? AMR.

I'm sure the coding of the site itself is done nice, but their stat weights, opinions on gearing has always been wrong which leads people to doing it wrong. If you insist on using that site substitute your own gems for the right ones, ignore their gearing advice and use your own stat weights.
Edited by Dûchene on 3/29/2013 8:23 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
03/29/2013 08:08 AMPosted by Kangarooster
You don't need AMR to tell you right what gear to use. You don't need AMR to tell you right gems to use. Download a reforge addon to do the rest.
The reforge addon is the same thing as AMR.

I find it kind of funny that people still parrot this when Theck helped code the Prot Pally portion of AMR. No one would tell Theck that he has no idea what he's doing.


Thats the thing. Its the same thing.

At best, its inferior to reforgelite because RFL actually does the ingame reforging for you.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
At best, its inferior to reforgelite because RFL actually does the ingame reforging for you.
The problem with reforgelite is it doesn't change gems or enchants.

:P
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90 Tauren Paladin
9730
I find it kind of funny that people still parrot this when Theck helped code the Prot Pally portion of AMR. No one would tell Theck that he has no idea what he's doing.

No, his numbers are probably quite good. The problem is that AMR uses his setup for 25-man heroic raiding as the default stat weights for every tank. Anyone that just plugs their character into AMR and doesn't fiddle with the stat weights will get told to gem most or all pure stamina, and use stamina enchants/armor kits on every slot possible. That's great if you're doing content that needs that, but most people don't, so having it as the default setting is pretty screwy.

Unfortunately, the AMR developers (at least the one that posted in the paladin forum when there was a thread going on this there) don't understand this at all, so it will probably never be fixed.
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81 Gnome Death Knight
10100
Unfortunately, the AMR developers (at least the one that posted in the paladin forum when there was a thread going on this there) don't understand this at all, so it will probably never be fixed.


Are you talking about the one referenced here?

http://sacredduty.net/2013/03/17/i-can-go-make-a-blog-in-2-minutes/
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90 Tauren Paladin
9730
Are you talking about the one referenced here?

Yeah. Thanks, I hadn't seen that before.

While I do understand what he's saying, I don't agree with all of it. He's arguing that AMR's default stat weights should favor the lowest common denominator: the tank that just plain sucks. What we end up seeing, though, is tanks coming to the forums confused because AMR's recommendations clash with everything they read about.

What I would rather see is AMR suggesting the standard, non-heavily-stamina-biased builds, and then if tanks are getting crushed because they suck they come to the forums and try to find out what they're doing wrong. Then we can help them improve. AMR, as a tool, should be trying to help people, not saying "Hey, you suck, so have tons of stamina! If you don't suck at the game but just don't know how to configure stat weights on the site, too bad!"
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90 Human Paladin
7295
I think Keten put his finger on it. It seems Ask Mr. Robot is now not a tool we can use to check if we nailed it perfect with our own work or if we're like 1-2 reforges off of a better combo unless you do a lot of messing around with weights.

I just want to quickly know if my setup is optimal and I don't like using those in game add-ons. Anyway, just wanted to know why it worked like I wanted 3 weeks ago and now it just puts me at 1% hit in order for me to have 2,000k HP unbuffed (yes, this is an hyperbole).
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