How do you gear Frost at Haste Cap?

98 Draenei Mage
13250
I've been following the general gemming guidelines, and I seem to have have run an into interesting, but I think predictable problem, with Frost. I'm not sure how I am supposed to gem, or frankly, reforge in general at my new gear level (510).

Update:

At higher gear levels, haste exceeds Intellect. Thus, at higher gear levels, many mages will gem for haste over INT. Regardless, players should sim themselves and note which gemming strategy is best for them: Int or Haste.
Edited by Rentrenus on 5/13/2013 2:44 PM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
7920
personally i feel that you should gem to haste caps. But in the other aspect i feel that it will be better if you go for crit. So i would say you should try to go for int. W/ getting your 2nd or 3rd hast cap.
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
personally i feel that you should gem to haste caps


03/29/2013 11:55 PMPosted by Erruptz
But in the other aspect i feel that it will be better if you go for crit.


03/29/2013 11:55 PMPosted by Erruptz
So i would say you should try to go for int.


You seem to be contradicting yourself.

W/ getting your 2nd or 3rd hast cap.


There is no 2nd or 3rd haste cap. The haste cap is what happens under certain situations:

http://lhiveras-library.com/content/how-solve-frosts-soft-cap-problem

I decided to gem for haste, and now I am capped for hit, and I'm also at the haste soft cap.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
9770
Have you thought of skipping the simcraft step and just running your armory thru AskMrRobot instead? I see it having you gem Int, Int/hit, Int/Haste and doing some reforging to Haste but certainly not recommending you gem straight Haste.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
12485
Well if we are to believe simcraft, at some point it makes sense to go full out haste and switch to using the icy veins glyph. At what point that is I do not know.
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
Have you thought of skipping the simcraft step and just running your armory thru AskMrRobot instead? I see it having you gem Int, Int/hit, Int/Haste and doing some reforging to Haste but certainly not recommending you gem straight Haste.


That's wearing different gear from previously - and it includes using a spirit off-hand.

When I was using straight-up personal BIS in each slot, setting it to 'relative' rather than absolute, it would produce for me optimization with hit at 15.25%

It was seeing that much hit that actually drove me to check out simcraft better. Now trying out different approaches, different pieces of gear, and can't say I'm completely sold one way or the other yet.
Edited by Rentrenus on 3/30/2013 3:06 AM PDT
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
Well if we are to believe simcraft, at some point it makes sense to go full out haste and switch to using the icy veins glyph. At what point that is I do not know.


According to the guide at MMO champion: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1204982-Kuni-s-Frost-Mage-PVE-Guide

It's 25% haste full raid buff.

I am past that haste point.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
12485
Very interesting indeed. It looks like I get ~760 DPS from 160 int, ~777 DPS from 80 int/160 haste and ~794 DPS from 320 haste.

I'm gonna have to do some re-evaluating here...
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100 Draenei Mage
10820
I am curious as to what you guys recommend doing if your over the haste cap. Raid buffed i am over 30% if i get the spell haste buff, if the shadow priest isnt in the raid i am still at like 29.9%

Most of the mages i have talked to on my server seem to feel there is no such thing as too much haste for frost, granted my ilvl is not that high only 490 currently.
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
I am curious as to what you guys recommend doing if your over the haste cap. Raid buffed i am over 30% if i get the spell haste buff, if the shadow priest isnt in the raid i am still at like 29.9%

Most of the mages i have talked to on my server seem to feel there is no such thing as too much haste for frost, granted my ilvl is not that high only 490 currently.


In your case I would actually change your gemming and making INT a greater priority.

You mention the fact you are 490. That's also why it's recommended to use simcraft to determine reforging. It will produce scaling numbers you can then use in programs like askmrrobot and reforgelite. I suspect it will make you lower your haste and increase your INT.

In my case, and others, it appears to be placing haste quite high, to the point where a pure haste gem would be better for me than a pure INT one. However, this is based on the scaling numbers being produced for me by simcraft. Kaikou notes it above as well.
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90 Gnome Mage
11310
If I recall haste starts overtaking in the gemming department once you get a tot trinket or 4 piece tier 15.
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
Very interesting indeed. It looks like I get ~760 DPS from 160 int, ~777 DPS from 80 int/160 haste and ~794 DPS from 320 haste.

I'm gonna have to do some re-evaluating here...


I see you decided to gem pure haste.

I was honestly scared to drop my INT that much in favour of haste, so ultimately decided against this, but still interested to see if it really produces better results.

Did you find a significant dps increase going pure haste?
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100 Blood Elf Mage
20145
I recently hit the 515 mark, and was baffled as to why my numbers weren't quite where I expected them to be with the new gear... So I got my stat weights from sc and plugged them into Mr. Robot, and sure enough it told me to start piling on the haste. I gave it a shot and my dps went back up pretty much instantaneously. I'm still not entirely sure what the deal was there, but it does seem that at some point it becomes more viable to gem straight haste over int.
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90 Worgen Mage
11555
Well you want to hit the crit cap for frost at 28% then gem all reckless gems.
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
Well you want to hit the crit cap for frost at 28% then gem all reckless gems.


I don't agree with simple strategies like this.

I prefer to sim myself with simcraft, find the weights appropriate for me, and then examine the results.

Also, with all due respect, I haven't seen your idea posted anywhere elsewhere in any guide for frost mage. Do you mind sharing your source? Who else is recommending this?
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90 Worgen Mage
11555
Of course it's according to your stats I already assume you have the gear for it is why I suggested what I did
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100 Blood Elf Mage
14565
I gem for as much Int as I can get. While still using int/haste int/hit for socket bonuses.
I've been using Simcraft for my stat weights and its usually around [Int:1.00][Haste:0.45][Crit:0.40][Mastery:0.35]
I'm not sure how reliable simcraft is these days though. It told me today that mastery > crit, I simmed what I would be if I reforged crit into mastery and my simulated damage plummeted.
Edited by Outcold on 4/2/2013 11:34 PM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
15140
I coulda sworn i read that you just stack your face off with haste and never stop.
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98 Draenei Mage
13250
I gem for as much Int as I can get. While still using int/haste int/hit for socket bonuses.
I've been using Simcraft for my stat weights and its usually around [Int:1.00][Haste:0.45][Crit:0.40][Mastery:0.35]
I'm not sure how reliable simcraft is these days though. It told me today that mastery > crit, I simmed what I would be if I reforged crit into mastery and my simulated damage plummeted.


That also happened to me after I switched to pure haste gems. Simmed myself - and it was lower. Trying to now find the right balance between haste and INT. Unlike yourself, my haste scale weight is always > 2.0
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100 Orc Mage
17270
Frost soft haste cap is when frost bolt casts quicker than your GCD during timewarp. I'm sure you didn't reach that.

And with frost, You want to gem for Int and Haste when ever possible. Haste obviously makes you hit faster, int makes you hit harder with your FoF and BF procs.
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