if you want to be MT, reroll paladin

03/31/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Berith
I don't think you'll find a lot of players who liked that.


I survived the days of "QQ more, Paladins should shut up and heal. You can tank when I get a healing tree".

I think you can live with us being a wee bit better at tanking 1 boss.

No, I wasn't around in Firelands, my experience is TBC/Classic.

Classic is ignored when it comes to tank balance because Blizzard intended for warriors only to tank back then so there was no tank balance and thus cannot use it as a reference.

TBC, pallies were the only tank of the three tanks that had no target limit. Druids had a 3 target limit and warriors had 4. So pallies were the default tank when it came to tanking large pulls and heroics as CC was not needed. But again, Blizzard had the "hybrid tax" and thus pallies and druids were not intended to maintank and put in mechanics just to keep druids and pallies from main tanking even though it didn't always work against pallies. (Illidan was intended to be tanked by a warrior but pallies could still tank it, druids could only do it with an insane gear set that was "unhittable" with 102% dodge).

Tanks were offically "balanced" at the start of WotLK but typically pallies were strong because of what their class brought to the raid and not being a tank.
1 Draenei Paladin
0
I'll trade some of my PvE OPness for some PvP FC viability.

This SoTR mitigation also translates to other fights too. Durumu's Hard stare doesn't even phase me and I can bubble/HoP that too.

Meanwhile my Blood DK friend crumbles at 3 to 4 stacks.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
18325
Btw, i was joking.

Also on 10 man, melee hit + dire call + triple puncture can still kill you through SoTR.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14730
Rawr me Paladin! Me stronk! /flex

Seriously, though, if there's ever another fight like Lei Shi I'll cry. ShoR don't help against pure magic damage, and if a boss decides *not* to punch me in the face all I really have to fall back on (outside of major CDs) is unglyphed Divine Protection and Word of Glory. I guess a lot of tanks are kinda screwed against heavy magic damage fights, though. Perhaps moreso than Paladins.

I sure wish I coulda stole my Raid Leader's Shield Barrier though. At least for that fight.

That said I absolutely ADORE Paladin tanking right now. Mmmm Sanctity of Battle. So good. Never leave me, baby. You and me are gonna go to the top... Awww yeah.

Also please stop crying to nerf me. I like being strong. It's fun. Don't put me back in the corner, guys...
90 Pandaren Warrior
15690
Seriously, though, if there's ever another fight like Lei Shi I'll cry. ShoR don't help against pure magic damage, and if a boss decides *not* to punch me in the face all I really have to fall back on (outside of major CDs) is unglyphed Divine Protection and Word of Glory. I guess a lot of tanks are kinda screwed against heavy magic damage fights, though. Perhaps moreso than Paladins.


Welcome to being a warrior every expansion pre mop
Edited by Ðemolition on 3/31/2013 7:51 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14730
Pally tanks will see a minor tweak in 5.3, while it's great to see them standing above the rest for once considering DK's in DS etc.

Tweaks, you say? Mmmm... The Chicken Little in me is starting to stir. I don't wanna go crazy like I did before, when they were considering nerfing ShoR or SoB because we liked haste "too much."

Then all they did was fudge around with Grand Crusader a tiny little bit. A nerf? Sort of. Entirely negligible. Made haste slightly less appealing and made avoidance "okay." Mostly in add tanking situations. Gave it a smidgeon of synergy with our mastery. All three approaches; haste, mastery, and avoidance are acceptable right now. This is good.

Tweaks...tweaks make me nervous. I feel good right now. I want to stay that way. If I wanna be tweaked I'll drink more coffee. Or something stronger perhaps. Perhaps much stronger...
90 Pandaren Monk
14430
03/31/2013 04:02 PMPosted by Berith
Also the fact that sacred shield is healing for a huge amount, logs of prot paladins breaking 100k hps while tanking, etc etc


A Holy Paladin or Retribution Paladin can throw a Sacred shield on the tank, so dunno why you're bringing this up.


It isn't the spell itself that is great. It is the fact that it scales with Vengeance and haste, two things paladins have a good amount of, that makes it ridiculous.
90 Pandaren Monk
9455
Paladins and their vengeance is the reason my guild one-tanks Tortos. Pally tank throws on his healing seal, bats go right to him, die in a couple of ticks of Consecrate and that throwy-hammer AoE. We also have 2-4 (depend on spec) BoPs so it's fun to ignore mechanics sometimes.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10125
03/31/2013 09:10 PMPosted by Meixie
Pally tank throws on his healing seal, bats go right to him, die in a couple of ticks of Consecrate and that throwy-hammer AoE.


You should have added in how he solo heals the raid with the battle healer glyphed and randomly afks/falls asleep and no one notices till loot is being passed out.
90 Tauren Paladin
11340
Paladins and their vengeance is the reason my guild one-tanks Tortos. Pally tank throws on his healing seal, bats go right to him, die in a couple of ticks of Consecrate and that throwy-hammer AoE. We also have 2-4 (depend on spec) BoPs so it's fun to ignore mechanics sometimes.


Implying there is much of any reason to NOT be in Seal of Insight?

The only time I swap seals in ToT is for Twin Consorts to DoT Suen when she appears during Night...
90 Human Paladin
8390
A Holy Paladin or Retribution Paladin can throw a Sacred shield on the tank, so dunno why you're bringing this up.


With about 90k AP I'm getting ~72k absorbs, every 5 seconds from Sacred Shield.

It's ridiculous- that's 60% or so what I get from a min shield Death Strike on my DK, but works on all damage, and is totally passive, in addition to my actual AM.
90 Orc Death Knight
9685
Nerf paladin thread, Im sure GC is in the lab working on it as we type. Dont worry guys, paladins will 4-5 best tank soon.
1 Draenei Paladin
0
Just ranked on Twin Consorts as Prot by surviving the Berserk and getting 700k Vengeance. It's sad that we reached Berserk but yeah. Felt good, baby.
10 Gnome Mage
9115
03/31/2013 10:18 PMPosted by Mcnutts
Nerf paladin thread, Im sure GC is in the lab working on it as we type.


To be sure! The big googley-eyed spectral crab in the corner says that Vonneumann raises some great points.
90 Pandaren Monk
9130
Patch 5.3:

Shield of the Righteous has been removed.
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
With about 90k AP I'm getting ~72k absorbs, every 5 seconds from Sacred Shield.

It's ridiculous- that's 60% or so what I get from a min shield Death Strike on my DK, but works on all damage, and is totally passive, in addition to my actual AM.


To be totally fair, Sacred Shield IS a cost that is factored in. It's not like it's something totally free that just cherries on top of a cake.

guess what happens with tripple puncture on paladins? it gets reduced by a crapton (and they can do it in all of them), while other tanks simply show their faces or pop a cooldown, because our active mitigation doesn't work.

again, balance concerns = heroics. Tripple puncture + melee hit can vaporize a tank on heroic .. well, 4 of the 5 tanks. One of the five doesn't have that issue. Guess which one it is =)


There's quite a few other methods to deal with Triple Puncture. You can abuse the timer to have Triple Puncture be the only attack that hits a tank for example. People are having no issues 2-healing it with 2 Blood DK's, or BM/DK etc.

It IS silly that it works on some mechanics that aren't really meant to be exploited through ShoR - like Attenuation, but it's slightly far from being a balance concern (yet). For example, while Triple Puncture itself may not be reduced, throttling down the melee damage surrounding it do make the difference. Having Infected Wounds never actually stack up means Talon Rake isn't nearly as painful on the spike end. etc.
Edited by Slashlove on 4/1/2013 3:40 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
2845
You can abuse the timer to have Triple Puncture be the only attack that hits a tank for example. People are having no issues 2-healing it with 2 Blood DK's, or BM/DK etc.

I assume you're talking about P2. We'll probably resort to that if tank damage ends up being unmanageable, but that prolongs the phase even more given those tanks won't be doing damage. If we had a protadin we could get a kill before TP would start one-shotting anyone, or at least push for a lot of stacks before switching.

It's the problem about having some tanks with AMs allowing a higher degree of "turtling" (namely shield tanks) while others are avoidance-based with a maximum mitigation and a combination of self-healing and minor CDs sprinkled (sometimes masked as AM, like Guard) to complement. You don't see a lot of non-gimmick mechanics that favor avoidance because at the end of the day it's random, but you sure see a lot around spikes.

I pointed the discrepancy a couple times on beta forums - mostly while complaining about monks and how a shield tank doing nothing takes as much damage as I would with Shuffle up. It didn't seem to matter, as people were focused on overall numbers for damage taken over mechanics. Now we're back to T13, just with a lot of unavoidable mechanics instead of just unblockable.

Tank flavor and strenghts & weaknesses are fun and all, until you're in a tier that clearly favors something else. DKs should be very familiar with that.
90 Human Paladin
7295
Tank flavor and strenghts & weaknesses are fun and all, until you're in a tier that clearly favors something else. DKs should be very familiar with that.


A.k.a, "Nerf Paladins!".

Really folks, we can probably spend all days finding scenarios where all the tank classes shine and where all of them have problems.

Stop making these damn "Nerf!" threads.
90 Tauren Paladin
11340
When it happens, I'm gonna say, "Called it!"
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