New PTR build - Atonement nerf.

90 Human Priest
13720
In 5.2 Bllizzard gimped our only good way to deal with D. If this change goes through as planned, they'll gimp our ability to deal with A also.


They didn't gimp it. They brought it more in line. Or is your definition of gimped different from mine?
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
1- Much like 5.1 PoH, offensive Penance is the best answer to everything. Need damage? Need single-target tank heals? Need AoE healing? Offensive Penance will do all of that better than pretty much everything else you have. The only difference is that Penance has a CD, though not much of one as most people still have access to the T14 bonus. It is supposed to be a compelling decision; do I use Penance? Do I use it offensively or defensively? Do I use one of my other tools that may perform the function better? Nerfing Atonement across the board by 20% will bring it down to the point where it is still powerful in its role, but other tools can now compete.

2- It is extremely likely this is a precursor to buffing Discipline's AoE abilities. Please recall that the devs work 2-3 builds ahead of what we see. Offensive Penance at 40 yards was supposed to be the replacement for a weakened AoE heal (that and the Binding Heal glyph), as a placeholder for something going on with Prayer of Healing. I would advise patience here as we see what else is in the pipeline.

3- Design encounter has a lot to do with class balance. They've been working on the end MoP raids for some time, I'd be willing to bet that there are several mechanics in the upcoming encounters for which Atonement was simply too powerful.


I like this. And i agree with this.

Again, I know I'll "feel it" but it's not going to make me feel gimped.

I'm excited to see what they'll do in the future, for sure.

As a previous poster mentioned, most of the DA crits are wasted, and it is a shame. I feel the same way. Especially when I get a really nice one and it's like, the lowest dmg phase possible.
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90 Undead Priest
7425
What I do not understand is most disc priests expect to do damage PLUS be #1-2 heals? LOL. What about Shammys..Resto Druids..holy priests you know the 'dedicated' healers who don't do damage. The fact that disc can do damage, albeit a bit its still not insignificant they should not be anywhere close to #1-2 healers on meters. but they are. either buff damage and reduce healing considerably or take damage mechanic away and reduce healing moderately. right now out of all the healing classes they do #1 damage and #1-2 healing. Blizz has no clue.


Let me help you understand..

Healing classes normally only have to juggle damage reactively. Spot heal the guy that takes damage, use aoe heal after raid-wide damage. It's all a reactive game.

Disc priests with Atonement healing adds complexity to this. In addition to reactively spot healing the raid, you have to manage offensive targets to heal. Our true healing is weak, so we have to proactively bubble/shield/etc. Then there's a host of short term cd's: Penance, Spirit Shell, Smiting when the target has the solace debuff, etc. Archangel at the correct time, using Inner Focus correctly.

Our damage is low, and only necesary to proc our heals. I Penance/Solace/Smite heavily, and here's my damage from last night (with a 514 ilvl)

Jin'rokh - 47,753 (DPS Classes were 130k+)
Horridon - 62,947 (DPS Classes were 100-150k)
Counsel of Elders - 30,781 (DPS classes were 96-112k)
Tortos - 39,990 (DPS classes were 91-221k)
Megera - 23,363 (DPS classes were 92-106k)
Ji-Kun - 41,858 (DPS classes were 70-115k)
Durumu - 37,702 (DPS classes were 82-109)

As you can see, Disc is not a relevant dps class.

And to address your point about the meters... Because the way Absorbs are captured, healing meters are nearly useless in trivial content. In a fight with real damage (Megera's rampage, for example) Disc is equal to other healing classes.

From last night's Megera kill:

HPally - 75k
Me - 71k
Resto Shammy in alt spec/gear - 60k

Disc as it sits today is fine. Nerfs are unwarranted, pander to crybabies who pay too much attention to LFR heros.
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90 Undead Priest
7425
04/03/2013 10:32 AMPosted by Tsilyi
In 5.2 Bllizzard gimped our only good way to deal with D. If this change goes through as planned, they'll gimp our ability to deal with A also.


They didn't gimp it. They brought it more in line. Or is your definition of gimped different from mine?


PoH outside of SS and IF, is a poor choice of spell.
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90 Human Priest
13720
PoH outside of SS and IF, is a poor choice of spell.


not if pom and (maybe...) penance are on cd and there is groupwide damage. do you just smite through rampage once SS is over?

e: i'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually curious!
Edited by Tsilyi on 4/3/2013 10:57 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
7425
Well thought out post!

04/03/2013 10:16 AMPosted by Fiyah
1- Much like 5.1 PoH, offensive Penance is the best answer to everything. Need damage? Need single-target tank heals? Need AoE healing? Offensive Penance will do all of that better than pretty much everything else you have. The only difference is that Penance has a CD, though not much of one as most people still have access to the T14 bonus. It is supposed to be a compelling decision; do I use Penance? Do I use it offensively or defensively? Do I use one of my other tools that may perform the function better? Nerfing Atonement across the board by 20% will bring it down to the point where it is still powerful in its role, but other tools can now compete.


The proposed nerf is to Atonement. This means applies to Penance, and Smite. Perhaps PW:Solace/Holyfire, depending.

Offensive Penance is only good for AoE healing because Blizzard nerfed our PoH into the ground. (The disc version of PoH is weak). Once our target has weakend soul, and PoM is out, we have no good way of dealing sustained with AoE.


3- Design encounter has a lot to do with class balance. They've been working on the end MoP raids for some time, I'd be willing to bet that there are several mechanics in the upcoming encounters for which Atonement was simply too powerful.


Good point. I'd gladly take a nerf to atonement, if they made another talent more appropriate for AoE healing. Say, Holy Nova.
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
Some one is always gonna cry about being to weak or someone is to strong. Wait a few weeks its will all change again.
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90 Undead Priest
7425
04/03/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Tsilyi
PoH outside of SS and IF, is a poor choice of spell.


not if pom and (maybe...) penance are on cd and there is groupwide damage. do you just smite through rampage once SS is over?

e: i'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually curious!


During Rampage, I try to AA/SS/PoH. When the SS buff is expired, I'll PW:S, Penance, PW:Solace, Smite.

If I can line up all my CD's perfectly, it goes pretty smooth. *BUT* if I need to AA/Cascade after a poison explosion, or I get Cinders, or have to run around a buddle of fire, or if several targets already have weakend soul, etc.

Sometimes I begin the rampage without AA. Or with shorter SS buff. Or PoM is already on CD.

PoH outside of Inner Focus feels so weak.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13955
Are you speaking from a 10 or 25M perspective, Darth? Because I can understand why you'd feel the way you do at the 10M level, but not at the 25M.
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90 Undead Priest
7425
Some one is always gonna cry about being to weak or someone is to strong. Wait a few weeks its will all change again.


I don't understand how Disc continues to get nerfs, when HPallys are untouched.

O.o
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90 Human Priest
13720
I can understand why you'd feel the way you do at the 10M level, but not at the 25M.


Yeah, I'd agree with that strategy much more from a 10 man perspective. sounds like a lot of those things are much more necessary (especially freak SS/AA sudden usage being needed to recover from accidental cinders or a bad poison bomb)

Perhaps we're disagreeing unnecessarily :P In which case I should have just asked for a clarification instead of just disagreeing totally.
Edited by Tsilyi on 4/3/2013 11:20 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
7425
Are you speaking from a 10 or 25M perspective, Darth? Because I can understand why you'd feel the way you do at the 10M level, but not at the 25M.


10m. We're working on Primordius.

I feel like if I were doing 25m, I'd be holy.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13955
That completely explains the disparity, then. I can absolutely see and agree with the idea of PoH being less desirable to cast at the 10M level.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
What Darth is saying and what Tiriel has recently said about having difficulty sometimes bursting people up resonates with me, especially in 10 mans. I actually first noticed this even when Disc was a god mode back in HoF. Our healing composition was two healers: disc and pally, so if we had a spirit shell malfunction, there was no real raid cooldown. I know people think I'm crazy, but I honestly think Disc should have access to a slightly nerfed Divine Hymn.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
That completely explains the disparity, then. I can absolutely see and agree with the idea of PoH being less desirable to cast at the 10M level.


I don't know. Outside of very specific situations, and Spirit Shell, I have a hard time coming up with a reason to use PoH. When I tried it last night, it was so ungodly slow and bars just didn't move. We didn't have a Shaman in the raid with us, and once health bars dipped there was really no way to get them back up with what we had.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13955
04/03/2013 11:34 AMPosted by Tiriel
That completely explains the disparity, then. I can absolutely see and agree with the idea of PoH being less desirable to cast at the 10M level.


I don't know. Outside of very specific situations, and Spirit Shell, I have a hard time coming up with a reason to use PoH. When I tried it last night, it was so ungodly slow and bars just didn't move. We didn't have a Shaman in the raid with us, and once health bars dipped there was really no way to get them back up with what we had.


I dunno what to say. I'm seeing results in 25M as Disc when I need to use PoH outside of SS.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
Would more Mastery be helpful Tiriel? Idk, just thinking out loud.
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90 Undead Priest
7425
04/03/2013 11:34 AMPosted by Tiriel
That completely explains the disparity, then. I can absolutely see and agree with the idea of PoH being less desirable to cast at the 10M level.


I don't know. Outside of very specific situations, and Spirit Shell, I have a hard time coming up with a reason to use PoH. When I tried it last night, it was so ungodly slow and bars just didn't move. We didn't have a Shaman in the raid with us, and once health bars dipped there was really no way to get them back up with what we had.


Yep! I feel exactly the same way.

I'm currently Int>Spirit>Crit=Mastery>Haste

Maybe a haste-heavy setup would be different.
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90 Human Priest
13720
I think it's probably less worth it when you are doing 3 targets or less than when you have 4+ but PoH is still a great spell for raid damage from what I've seen. I might not always value it over PoM (especially not once I get 2set) In many situations but certainly not a spell to stop using very often.
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