New PTR build - Atonement nerf.

90 Undead Priest
7425
I think it's probably less worth it when you are doing 3 targets or less than when you have 4+ but PoH is still a great spell for raid damage from what I've seen. I might not always value it over PoM (especially not once I get 2set) In many situations but certainly not a spell to stop using very often.


PoH is 2.5 second cast, hits 5 players maximum if in group and in range.

Penance+PW:Solace+Smite is ~2.5 seconds cast, smart heals, hits 5 players regardless of group. And heals for more.

In what situation are you casting PoH over Penance->PW:Solace->Smite?
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Maybe a haste-heavy setup would be different.


In my experience, it is. I run heavy haste and it feels/works much better for me. After the patch I tried heavy haste, heavy mastery, heavy crit, mixed haste/mastery, mixed haste/crit (did not try mastery/crit) and heavy haste is what I have the best results with.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Would more Mastery be helpful Tiriel? Idk, just thinking out loud.


I'm already sitting at 25% Mastery. I don't think I could get more without cutting more Haste.
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90 Human Priest
5860
In what situation are you casting PoH over Penance->PW:Solace->Smite?

Situations when those are on cooldown.

If you want more out of PoH, stack more haste. (personally I'll probably go up to 4.7k haste rating this week)
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90 Human Priest
13720
Penance+PW:Solace+Smite is ~2.5 seconds cast


taking haste out of the equation:

penance+Pw:solace+smite is

penance: 2 seconds
Pw:Solace 1.5 (GCD)
Smite: 1.5 seconds

Even discounting the fact that your math is wrong on the amount of time it takes for all those spells to go through, PoH would ALWAYS be used when you want to guarantee certain people are healed, since all three of the spells you listed are entirely not certain in the respect unless everyone is at 100% aside from the players you wish to heal!

also, I suppose since you are talking from a 10 player perspective, it is far less likely that you will need or be able to do as much specific group healing as a 25 player does. (less players of melee type or ranged type able to group necessarily means that it will be less likely that 5 people in the same group will be within 30 yards of the targeted player, but you know that!)
Edited by Tsilyi on 4/3/2013 11:58 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
7425
04/03/2013 11:56 AMPosted by Tsilyi
Penance+PW:Solace+Smite is ~2.5 seconds cast


taking haste out of the equation:

penance+Pw:solace+smite is

penance: 2 seconds
Pw:Solace 1.5 (GCD)
Smite: 1.5 seconds

Even discounting the fact that your math is wrong on the amount of time it takes for all those spells to go through, PoH would ALWAYS be used when you want to guarantee certain people are healed, since all three of the spells you listed are entirely not certain in the respect unless everyone is at 100% aside from the players you wish to heal!

also, I suppose since you are talking from a 10 player perspective, it is far less likely that you will need or be able to do as much specific group healing as a 25 player does. (less players of melee type or ranged type able to group necessarily means that it will be less likely that 5 people in the same group will be within 30 yards of the targeted player, but you know that!)


The 2.4 vs 2.5 second cast time is neglibe.

I was asking specifically at what time you cast PoH over other alternatives. What fight and when.

But I think what you're saying is you prefer PoH to Penance+PW:Solace+Smite. Correct?
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90 Human Priest
13720
04/03/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Darthsiddeus
2.4 vs 2.5 second cast time


2 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 5

penance is a 2 second base channel time... i don't know why you think those three spells take a total of 2.5 seconds to cast.

I was asking specifically at what time you cast PoH over other alternatives. What fight and when.


it would be pretty lengthy to detail it, but like I said... I prefer to cast PoH (in a 25 man environment and outside of SS) when PoM is on cd and I know I need to heal these 4+ people and not some random people. (eg: rampage on maegera, quills, sandstorm, after certain poison bombs if other healers have cinders, after static shock/overcharge on lei shen if needed)

it's going to be a lot different for 25 man since there are a lot more times when we are capable of and NEED TO heal 4 or more specific people. with 10 players it is a lot more likely your atonement heals will heal the correct person.
Edited by Tsilyi on 4/3/2013 12:14 PM PDT
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The 2.4 vs 2.5 second cast time is neglibe.

I was asking specifically at what time you cast PoH over other alternatives. What fight and when.

But I think what you're saying is you prefer PoH to Penance+PW:Solace+Smite. Correct?


I think what he is saying that Penance/Solace/Smite is 5 seconds.. so PoH would be used when you need to heal 5 specific people in 2.5s.

edit: Or I could have waited til he actually posted :)

it's going to be a lot different for 25 man since there are a lot more times when we are capable of and NEED TO heal 4 or more specific people. with 10 players it is a lot more likely your atonement heals will heal the correct person.


This is true, however if it is raidwide, in most cases I will still pom/shield (for bt) and PoH. Yes, Atonement would heal 5 people, but I want to heal 10 people (or 8 people at least) and I can PoH the whole 8 in the same time period I could Atonement the 5.

edit again: Atonement does heal more (per person) than PoH does, however I play my priest as.. a smoother I guess is a good description for it. Meaning, I try to keep both groups even-ish for my partner, not fully heal 5 random people and let him handle the rest.
Edited by Morenn on 4/3/2013 12:27 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
13720
sorry, i'm slow and at work. don't worry, i'm not neglecting my duties but my break is ending................................. NOW
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Penance+PW:Solace+Smite is ~2.5 seconds cast, smart heals, hits 5 players regardless of group. And heals for more.


In 25 mans, you're definitely casting a PoH over a Smite whenever your PoH is able to heal at least 3 people with minimal overhealing. Like, PoHx4 is still one of our highest HPS and HPM spells outside of PoM and offensive Penance, why wouldn't you use it constantly in a tier dominated by multiple stack phases with high raid damage?
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If its a priest nerf its a good nerf, Dislike Priests because every spec seems to be to powerful for their own good.


Disclaimer: I don't mind the nerf.

Meat: From a Paladin? REALLY?!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13150
04/03/2013 08:49 AMPosted by Darthsiddeus
I don't mind the nerf, but if it's part of a "whole toolkit" design philosophy, then I do wish they would make heal, flash heal, and greater heal spells I would feel good about casting.


The current tier of raiding isn't designed for heavy single-target damage.

We have:

A) Moderate amounts of damage to 3-4 targets
B) Burst damage to tanks
C) Raid-wide AOE burst
D) Raid-wide AOE sustained

Heal, and (to a lesser extent - Greater Heal - outside of SS stacking on a single target) are not good tools.

In 5.2 Bllizzard gimped our only good way to deal with D. If this change goes through as planned, they'll gimp our ability to deal with A also.

That would make Holy Priest the default spec for raiders.


Mostly agreed, though I'm not convinced it's a big enough nerf to use the word 'gimp' yet, or even get too concerned about. My point was more: If they really want to steer us into using our "whole toolkit" they should give us a whole toolkit worth using. Speaking of which, I feel hyper-aware of the developers this tier, as I'm playing, slowing us down, trying to get us to log in daily, steering our playstyle, in a way I haven't before. It's de-immersifying.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13150
04/03/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Morenn
If its a priest nerf its a good nerf, Dislike Priests because every spec seems to be to powerful for their own good.


Disclaimer: I don't mind the nerf.

Meat: From a Paladin? REALLY?!


That made me laugh.
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90 Human Priest
13720
If its a priest nerf its a good nerf, Dislike Priests because every spec seems to be to powerful for their own good.


hey. hey. hey.

you get outta here, mister.
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90 Undead Priest
7425


it would be pretty lengthy to detail it, but like I said... I prefer to cast PoH (in a 25 man environment and outside of SS) when PoM is on cd and I know I need to heal these 4+ people and not some random people. (eg: rampage on maegera, quills, sandstorm, after certain poison bombs if other healers have cinders, after static shock/overcharge on lei shen if needed)

it's going to be a lot different for 25 man since there are a lot more times when we are capable of and NEED TO heal 4 or more specific people. with 10 players it is a lot more likely your atonement heals will heal the correct person.


I get it.

It's the combination of needing 5+ target healing and picking the targets to heal.

Thanks!
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
If its a priest nerf its a good nerf, Dislike Priests because every spec seems to be to powerful for their own good.


If Disc Priests are too strong for you, you're really, really bad. :)

You know, you have an interrupt. You might try using it occasionally. :)
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90 Human Priest
13720
Thanks!


np! :) i definitely like your strats for healing unequal groupings of people and especially for 10 man situations and would totally apply the same logic. i'm glad we could come to an understanding!
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90 Undead Priest
7425
04/03/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Tsilyi
Thanks!


np! :) i definitely like your strats for healing unequal groupings of people and especially for 10 man situations and would totally apply the same logic. i'm glad we could come to an understanding!


Not as much a negotiation, as clarity of purpose.

PoH being limited by group and range is pretty dumb on encounters where the raid is spread out. It's a relic of how healing used to be (stack up, heal, move, repeat).
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90 Human Priest
13720
It's a relic of how healing used to be (stack up, heal, move, repeat).


from a larger raid format perspective by "used to be" I think you mean feng, gara'jal, elegon, vizier, blade lord, garalon, empress, lei shi, jin'rokh, (to a lesser extent) horridon, magaera, and ji-kun. ;)

As much as I wouldn't mind if PoH were made a smart heal of sorts, I think it's pretty neat to have different mechanics from basically all the other healers. Surely (at least from my perspective) Spiritshell would have to be potentially reworked if PoH ceased being groupwide, due to the lack of a consistent way of using it the way we currently use it and thus nerfing it's overall effectiveness. We would have to be compensated in some way for that kind of change or Spirit Shell would probably have to be changed. I know a lot of people feel like PoH should be a smart heal but I'm not so sure. It would require reworking some other spells, definitely!
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