New PTR build - Atonement nerf.

90 Night Elf Priest
5045
There's no way I'll want to heal LFR with atonement healing not being viable.

Healing that mess is bad even with atonement. With a 20% nerf atonement just turns into something you use as a fallback at best.

It'd ruin the spec for me if atonement isn't viable.


It will be viable, who said it won't?

It'll be useful for period of low dmg, just as always. But now we can ride into higher dmg phases with it, we'll need to use other tools from our spellbook.

So, consequently, it won't ruin the spec.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15250
Chicken Little'ing has happened with every major change to disc this expac.


*every change to anything ever
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100 Human Priest
15220
There's no way I'll want to heal LFR with atonement healing not being viable.

Healing that mess is bad even with atonement. With a 20% nerf atonement just turns into something you use as a fallback at best.

It'd ruin the spec for me if atonement isn't viable.


It will be viable, who said it won't?

It'll be useful for period of low dmg, just as always. But now we can ride into higher dmg phases with it, we'll need to use other tools from our spellbook.

So, consequently, it won't ruin the spec.


If we are talking LFR, even with pushing only 3 buttons, it is still viable. It is just in question whether or not you can still top the meter in LFR. But, when did being able to top LFR meters with snipe heals become even relevant for the viability of a spec?
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
I don't know Jesmina.

I just do know that people are silly, and that this is a welcome challenge and change to my gameplay.
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90 Human Priest
13720
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo61/zabu_san/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-.gif
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http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo61/zabu_san/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-.gif


Nothing to see here folks.... nothing to see. :P
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100 Undead Priest
10715

The main issue I have with this change is that we're currently using it in our rotation during high damage phases, and all it's going to result in is a nerf to our sustained healing, which isn't something that's particularly overpowered about Disc, during these phases.


This ties in with what I was saying before.

People in this thread seem to be making a huge line in the ground and putting "low damage phase" on one side with "high damage phase" on the other side.

There are times in between. There are many times where Atonement would suffice, for me, because I have other healers in the raid who can cast Wild Growth, Uplift, or Holy Shock + Beacon. Why would I stop to cast PoH again...? Atonement is perfectly fine for simple sustained output during these times when 2 healers would really struggle but the 3rd healer can act as basically half a healer.

I'm just saying I think Atonement covers a little more than just light damage.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13955
04/05/2013 12:28 AMPosted by Dliver
As mentioned earlier, Atonement's main strength comes from the damage and snipe healing it does during low damage phases

Working as intended?

I thought the whole point of atonement healing was that it *should* excel during low damage phases?


It does and it will continue to do so.

I think you're confusing your fireball "rotation" for healing, where you do have to be slightly awake sometimes.


Really? It's possible to faceroll spam Atonement right now, and keep LFR alive.
Edited by Elethia on 4/5/2013 9:31 AM PDT
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37 Human Warrior
11845
It's possible to faceroll spam Atonement right now, and keep LFR alive.


I fell asleep during Spirit Kings LFR the other night. DONT ASK.

e: oh god wrong toon.
Edited by Tsomas on 4/5/2013 9:55 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/05/2013 09:30 AMPosted by Elethia
I think you're confusing your fireball "rotation" for healing, where you do have to be slightly awake sometimes.


Really? It's possible to faceroll spam Atonement right now, and keep LFR alive.


It's basically all I do in LFR. >.>
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
Yeah, I atonment spam for most of my lfr healing, unless they're baddies or the hpally is being mean.

If the latter is true, I bubble spam and then lolrecount.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
04/05/2013 02:40 AMPosted by Dliver


You could heal LFR by rolling your face on the keyboard.

I think you're confusing your fireball "rotation" for healing, where you do have to be slightly awake sometimes.


I think you are confusing LFR for something that is difficult to heal.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045

I think you're confusing your fireball "rotation" for healing, where you do have to be slightly awake sometimes.


I think you are confusing LFR for something that is difficult to heal.


Only if they're really bad! I'm out at 3 stacks and still wiping. It's futile at that point.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
Yeah well, the Dorumu maze wipes have very little to do with atonement output being too low . . .
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
Yeah well, the Dorumu maze wipes have very little to do with atonement output being too low . . .


QFT
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90 Gnome Priest
11895
04/05/2013 09:27 AMPosted by Multicidez
There are times in between. There are many times where Atonement would suffice, for me, because I have other healers in the raid who can cast Wild Growth, Uplift, or Holy Shock + Beacon. Why would I stop to cast PoH again...? Atonement is perfectly fine for simple sustained output during these times when 2 healers would really struggle but the 3rd healer can act as basically half a healer.

10N Megaera's a pretty good example of this. The first...2-3 Rampages aren't really that threatening. They're pretty easily 2-healable (especially if you start each Rampage with a decent SS), so I usually just stick to Atonement for them to conserve mana for the later phases when the other two healers are running low.
Edited by Skootalloo on 4/5/2013 10:23 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
11050
Re: Ceddya's post,

While you're on to a certain point, two things stand out.

Firstly, damage output is supposed to be a trade for healing- remember the 50/50 argument. Right now Atonement's output is still more like 50/80 damage/healer ratio- that's being generous and including the T14 bonus. That overall total needs to come down. It will come down naturally a little more as people replace their T14 gear, but surely not enough to approach the stated balance goal. Nerfing Atonement's output across the board is really the most mechanically sound way to bring it down the rest of the way. Taking down the damage output and leaving the heal in place would both hurt Disc in every non-raid application and make the 'damage or heal' choice less compelling.

Secondly, they have already stated plans to change how PoH works. I don't think that's too far off and will dramatically affect the 'damage or heal' decision-making process. I spoke out previously against buffing Atonement and Penance as they did, but the response was "Penance is fine and a fun spell". Now they're either seeing that they overstepped, or they purposefully put it in as a placeholder this tier for a more meaningful change to Disc's AoE heal model in the next one. Both are just as likely and they will admit to neither, naturally. But the fact the Atonement change is not part of the official patch notes yet leads me to believe there's more that we're not seeing.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Ghostcrawler stated the PoH change is likely to come in a future expansion because turning it into a totally different spell, which is what they want to do with it, is not the kind of thing to do lightly. So this change is almost certainly not going to be accompanied by a change in PoH functionality. On that note I have serious doubts that when PoH is changed it will actually be an improvement - at least in 10M raiding I find it surprising that so many people want their party heal gone, as it fills an important niche in my toolbox that absolutely nothing else does. Similarly I think this nerf will not be accompanied by any corresponding buffs - we just got done nerfing Disc's AoE throughput outside of SS into the ground, guys, it's not coming right back.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
There are times in between. There are many times where Atonement would suffice, for me, because I have other healers in the raid who can cast Wild Growth, Uplift, or Holy Shock + Beacon. Why would I stop to cast PoH again...? Atonement is perfectly fine for simple sustained output during these times when 2 healers would really struggle but the 3rd healer can act as basically half a healer.

I'm just saying I think Atonement covers a little more than just light damage.


And that's because Smite is too spammable and too efficient. An offensive Penance every 9 seconds does slightly more healing than Holy's CoH that is on an 8s timer. How exactly is offensive Penance an issue?

As it stands, a Holy Priest with CoH + Solace plays like a Disc Priest with offensive Penance + Holy Fire/Solace. The only difference is that the Holy Priest doesn't have an efficient, spammable filler like Smite. For obvious reasons, I highly doubt you would be relying on offensive Penance and Holy Fire alone to heal during high damage phases if they drastically reduced the potency of Smite.

Also, people are looking at inflated numbers from Atonement because of the T14 4-piece and ToT. The numbers from Penance are going to be much more reasonable without those factors and once Disc Priests start moving onto the T15 2/4 piece bonuses.

I just feel that it'd be more logical to nerf Smite even harder, and keep Holy Fire and Penance as they are, thus turning Smite into a tool for mainly building Evangelism whilst the other two spells remain their current functionality.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Firstly, damage output is supposed to be a trade for healing- remember the 50/50 argument. Right now Atonement's output is still more like 50/80 damage/healer ratio- that's being generous and including the T14 bonus. That overall total needs to come down. It will come down naturally a little more as people replace their T14 gear, but surely not enough to approach the stated balance goal. Nerfing Atonement's output across the board is really the most mechanically sound way to bring it down the rest of the way. Taking down the damage output and leaving the heal in place would both hurt Disc in every non-raid application and make the 'damage or heal' choice less compelling.


I'm not going to argue that Atonement does good damage. But you need to realize that those numbers are inflated due to the T14 4-piece bonus, Smite spam and ToT allowing you to fit in quite a bit more Penances.

The damage contribution from a 9s Penance alone isn't game breaking enough that its healing contribution needed to be reduced. A Resto Druid with HotW or a Holy Priest using Chastise during down phases should be able to contribute similar amounts of damage.

Nerfing Atonement across the board may be the easiest way, but it doesn't address the fact that the main issue is with the spammability of Smite, not offensive Penance or Holy Fire. A better alternative would be to give Smite the Solace treatment, removing it from Atonement and just reduce the amount it heals for further.

Also, there's no real 'damage or heal' choice for Disc Priests. When Atonement is our only raid wide spot heal, it's something that we'll revert to when there's light damage (or use on CD like offensive Penance). The lack of alternatives removes the element of choice.

Secondly, they have already stated plans to change how PoH works. I don't think that's too far off and will dramatically affect the 'damage or heal' decision-making process.


I'm pretty confident we won't be seeing any changes to PoH this expac, as least none that are mechanical in nature.
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