MBP vs rMBP

90 Night Elf Hunter
7020
Will I get the same performance from the new 15 MBP with best graphics card as the rMBP or will the MBP get better performance because its not driving the retina screen?
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90 Human Warrior
18630
the MBP will have better performance, same graphics hardware but less pixels to drive.

furthermore, the non retina also has better expansion, more 3rd party options for an SSD upgrade, or ram upgrades. You'll have a far more upgradable machine and easily serviceable one at that. a retina, you won't even be able to clean dust out of case without voiding warranty or having apple do it
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90 Human Priest
6120
Unless you absolutely need, and I do mean need that Retina display, get the regular version. Omegal's points are not only valid, but a dealbreaker for many people. The rMBP screams "throwaway machine", and is not a good choice for longevity or expansion. You're really paying a premium for the Retina screen, and if you are primarily using it to play games, the lower resolution screen will serve you in a far better manner than any eye candy screen will.

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90 Night Elf Hunter
7020
Thanks for the Replies guys. Going to pick up my new MBP tomorrow!!!
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You may want the regular MBP to save the funds. However, if you can spare it- the rMBP is a much nicer machine.

The difference in performance from my tests has been pretty much nil. It will get worse as time goes on though since it is more pixels to drive. I can walk out with the same FPS as my 2012 MacBook Pro at the same settings. However, as stated numerous times- there is a premium for the machine.
Edited by Anzio on 4/1/2013 8:56 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
4530
04/01/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Anzio
You may want the regular MBP to save the funds. However, if you can spare it- the rMBP is a much nicer machine.


I second Anzio (and am very happy to counter Omegal as his Mac-related posts often make me /rolleyes.) I have been extremely pleased with my rMBP since picking it up a couple of months ago. It's performance in WoW is just fine and Blizzard offers so many settings to tweak that you can fit the game to suit your preferences very well. I personally run at full resolution and reduce my framerates down a bit because I like the sharpness without the fans kicking up.

If you don't do a lot of photo/graphics/design work and/or simply don't see the need to have a high DPI display after looking at one up close, the cMPB is a fine choice. I personally prefer how elegant it feels to sit behind that display. That's a big reason people buy Macs in the first place, isn't it?

Omegal, some people don't require upgradeability in our machines and that's okay. I haven't needed an optical drive for the better part of a decade and I like to refresh my hardware every couple years. That doesn't mean that I have more money than sense - it just means that I have the money and desire to do so. Some people collect classic cars. Some people bet on sports. I like having the latest tech. Now come here so I can give you a big sloppy cow-hug, you opinionated feller, you!
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90 Human Warrior
18630
You may want the regular MBP to save the funds. However, if you can spare it- the rMBP is a much nicer machine.

the rmbp is NOT a much nicer machine. you sacrifice ANY ability to service it yourself. an optical drive. inferior case parts, and less expansion overall, for a higher pixel screen that will lower game performance anyways (since if you want to really max out your games you'll turn down resolution anyways). sure you COULD play at retina but at a huge fps cost and not running ultra like most gamers would want to run.

the retina also has no superior parts but screen, same gpu and cpu and other options are there. Just no optical drive and not serviceable. (the case is literally glued together with warranty avoiding stickers in addition to glue. ram you can't ever upgrade, like EVER (so you better max it out bto cause you will never be able to change it later). very few SSD options since the retina uses proprietary design that's again not user serviceable. unlike non retina which uses standard 2.5inch industry standard parts, allowing you to use any HDD or SSD you want from 3rd parties at a fraction of the cost.

IF you get a non retina, you will get a higher performance machine easily by cheaping out on ram and HDD from apple and getting the bes, cheapest, 3rd party solutions and installing them yourself. As a bonus, if you're traveling, you can actually pop a dvd in. (the removal of optical drive from retina has got to be dumbest thing ever. Like seriously, does apple assume that every customer in world has access to high speed wifi EVERYWHERE they travel that they couldn't possibly still use physical media in their machine?)

Omegal, some people don't require upgradeability in our machines and that's okay. I haven't needed an optical drive for the better part of a decade and I like to refresh my hardware every couple years. That doesn't mean that I have more money than sense

Serviceability isn't just upgrading. It's actual servicing. wait 2 years when your gpu starts overheating cause you can't take it apart to remove dust from inside of case. I haven't met a macbook pro yet that doesn't need cleaning out from time to time. unless you just throw em away and replace them every 1-2 years (which is basically what the retina is, like tia says, a throw away machine)
Edited by Omegal on 4/1/2013 1:47 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
4530
First off, Omegal, I would like to thank you for coming in and getting your big old cow hug on!

I mean every bit of this response as respectful discourse - but your MVP Tech Support posts are always so negative-opinion-laced (regarding this particular subject) that I feel the need to reply.

04/01/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Omegal
You may want the regular MBP to save the funds. However, if you can spare it- the rMBP is a much nicer machine.

the rmbp is NOT a much nicer machine.


These are two competing opinions. The rMBP is very nice if you like to look at your screen. I agree with you that it isn't so nice if you want to watch DVDs or go cheap and upgrade.

...you sacrifice ANY ability to service it yourself. an optical drive. inferior case parts, and less expansion overall, for a higher pixel screen that will lower game performance anyways (since if you want to really max out your games you'll turn down resolution anyways). sure you COULD play at retina but at a huge fps cost and not running ultra like most gamers would want to run.


The first sentence here is mostly true, aside from the 'interior case parts' comment. As for your assertion that 'most gamers' would want to run at a certain level, I think you don't know just how well WoW can run on a rMBP at mostly high/ultra settings. Yes, I adjusted down sunshafts and water detail, but I'm running full Retina resolution with max draw distance and most options at high/ultra. It is pretty. I do have a MaxFPS cap of 20 and realize that some people prefer a regular FPS of 3x+ that, but I have run the exact settings with 50-60FPS with no problem. The only reason I throttle my FPS is that I like to see my fans stay at 2k and my temps not exceed 60c. I baby the machine, but I know that I don't have to.

04/01/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Omegal
the retina also has no superior parts but screen, same gpu and cpu and other options are there. Just no optical drive and not serviceable. (the case is literally glued together with warranty avoiding stickers in addition to glue. ram you can't ever upgrade, like EVER (so you better max it out bto cause you will never be able to change it later). very few SSD options since the retina uses proprietary design that's again not user serviceable. unlike non retina which uses standard 2.5inch industry standard parts, allowing you to use any HDD or SSD you want from 3rd parties at a fraction of the cost.


Most of these statements are true, but again you assume that everyone wants an optical drive at some point and needs terabytes of data storage INSIDE their portable machine. I carry around a 1TB myPassport portable drive that I NEVER use. You also didn't mention that the rMBP was lighter and smaller than it's cMBP counterpart.

04/01/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Omegal
IF you get a non retina, you will get a higher performance machine easily by cheaping out on ram and HDD from apple and getting the bes, cheapest, 3rd party solutions and installing them yourself. As a bonus, if you're traveling, you can actually pop a dvd in. (the removal of optical drive from retina has got to be dumbest thing ever. Like seriously, does apple assume that every customer in world has access to high speed wifi EVERYWHERE they travel that they couldn't possibly still use physical media in their machine?)


See, this is what really gets me. You always go back to that optical drive thing. Your DVD/Blu-Ray collection must be massive and a very important part of your existence. I respect that, but not everyone is you. I certainly don't think that I'm in the majority here, but being an Apple guy, I have an AppleTV attached to each of my TVs. I completely skipped the HD-DVD / Blu-Ray generation and went the digital-storage route. All 200 of my DVDs were ripped and saved on a hard-drive on my network and I started buying all of my new content on iTunes. When I want to watch a couple of movies on a trip, I copy them to my rMBP / iPad / whatever and am off and away. And never again do I have to worry about 'where did that disc go?'

Sure, I am an early adopter in those regards, but I believe that everyone knows that is the direction technology is traveling. Truthfully, it makes me sad when people cite the lack of an optical drive as a killing point for computers. It's dinosaur technology very soon.

04/01/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Omegal
Omegal, some people don't require upgradeability in our machines and that's okay. I haven't needed an optical drive for the better part of a decade and I like to refresh my hardware every couple years. That doesn't mean that I have more money than sense

Serviceability isn't just upgrading. It's actual servicing. wait 2 years when your gpu starts overheating cause you can't take it apart to remove dust from inside of case. I haven't met a macbook pro yet that doesn't need cleaning out from time to time. unless you just throw em away and replace them every 1-2 years (which is basically what the retina is, like tia says, a throw away machine)


In 2 years, I'll still be under warranty. By 3 years from now I'll have upgraded or be looking to upgrade. What we both don't know is what situation the OP is in when it comes to how long he wants to have his machine.

Still, I don't think it's a 'throw-away' machine just because you can't self-service. My early 2011 MBA looks and works as good as new and it has the glued-on parts as well. Again, I baby my machines but it has seen a LOT of use. It runs as cool as ever and is as peppy as it was the day I bought it.

I'm not here defending my purchase - I don't need to do that. I'm very happy with the product and do enough research before buying anything tech-related. What I don't like is the constant assumption that just because the rMBP doesn't fit your needs or description of what is valuable, that it is the only relevant opinion out there.

If OP comes back and said that your advice was spot-on to help him decide on the correct machine for his needs, then good for OP. Other people read these forums though and I wanted to make sure that people see the other side of this conversation.

Still giving out sloppy cow-hugs though...

(EDITED to fix a quoting error. Because I care.)
Edited by Hàvók on 4/1/2013 2:48 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
6120
The first sentence here is mostly true, aside from the 'interior case parts' comment. As for your assertion that 'most gamers' would want to run at a certain level, I think you don't know just how well WoW can run on a rMBP at mostly high/ultra settings. Yes, I adjusted down sunshafts and water detail, but I'm running full Retina resolution with max draw distance and most options at high/ultra. It is pretty. I do have a MaxFPS cap of 20 and realize that some people prefer a regular FPS of 3x+ that, but I have run the exact settings with 50-60FPS with no problem. The only reason I throttle my FPS is that I like to see my fans stay at 2k and my temps not exceed 60c. I baby the machine, but I know that I don't have to.


You just defeated the purpose of the rMBP purchase right here. If you're paying extra just for a screen, and then turn down that much, you aren't really running at what the machine could run at. And you might get decent framerates in non-MoP zones, but in MoP areas on an rMBP, you're not going to hit that high unless you're in a cave if you're running at native resolution. The 680MX is good, but not that good.

And turning down sunshafts and water detail doesn't quite qualify as playing on ultra.

Sure, I am an early adopter in those regards, but I believe that everyone knows that is the direction technology is traveling. Truthfully, it makes me sad when people cite the lack of an optical drive as a killing point for computers. It's dinosaur technology very soon.


Not everybody has access to high data cap internet and/or fast speeds. Nor does everybody have the time and patience to put their entire DVD collection onto an NAS (or the money for the capacity for some collections).

And Apple would be doing a good number of their customers a favor if they'd finally put a damned blu-ray drive into at least some of their computers.

<-- Netflix customer here. I save my data cap for gaming and web surfing, and use physical media (which btw a lot doesn't rip well these days due to excessive anti-piracy measures on the discs). I even have a couple Star Trek: Enterprise discs that refuse to rip properly, even after being de-macrovisioned. They play back as gibberish from my HD, but play perfectly from the optical drive. There's more discs out there than you think that have this issue.

Also, for my game installers - I prefer to not eat my data cap to death with downloadable installers whenever I can. I prefer a physical install medium, something I wish OS X itself still had.

Oh, and that lovely recovery partition thing that requires an internet connection to restore OS X. Yeah, that worked out well didn't it. I've seen it handily fail in epic manners even on good internet connections. Don't have internet and no physical disc or medium to install from? You're toast.

I've also gotta have a drive to rip those playstation discs if I want to use a playstation emulator on the go. Not happening on an rMBP.

You also sacrifice one very important connector: Ethernet. The rMBP has only wireless access, meaning if you aren't in a place with wireless, you're boned. And if you game, wireless is much less desirable than wired, and the regular MBP has both connection methods. You give up all that for an HDMI port on the rMBP, and you can get that via a MDP->HDMI adapter which will cost you less (by far) than the premium you pay for a machine with less connections on it.

You give up way too much on the rMBP for it to be practical for many.

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90 Blood Elf Warrior
5010
I like this back-and-forth. It's informative, and it's good-natured. I hope.
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90 Human Warrior
18630
You mention it's lighter, and comment that not everyone needs internal storage space because you can carry around heavy external storage space?. :p

Also it's not just about storage space it's about 3rd party options. What you need now and later are two different things. when you get a retina you corner yourself in and don't give yourself any options for later. sure you can expand space with externals. but if you want a faster boot volume or newer SSD tech, guess what, that's not an option for you. you want to add more ram as the requirements for wow go up, again, not an option. what you got is what you're stuck with a retina. that is the point of emphasis.

In 2 years, I'll still be under warranty. By 3 years from now I'll have upgraded or be looking to upgrade. What we both don't know is what situation the OP is in when it comes to how long he wants to have his machine.

That's true, but you just admit, the retina is ok for you because you treat it like a throw away machine. Seeing these wow forums, i can tell you most do not have that view. I see tons of older macbooks even now from 2009 or 2008 still playing today (granted apples current OS support system is sort of ruining that these days).
people want their investment to last longer. they want to be able to throw in some extra ram, or a faster HDD/SSD drive down the road. Granted MBPs or rMBP don't have upgradable graphics cards, which is ultimately their short coming in actually lasting beyond 4-5 years (vs a mac pro which can last easily 5-7 years). but upgrading every 4-5 you will need to take it apart, service out dust, probably add more memory. So servicing is an important option to consider as part of an investment. You should worry about the later when making such a high item purchase. Not everyone can just focus on the now and throw it away when it ceases to be of use.

I also know VERY few who are happy playing at 20fps. i see people on macbook's complain regularly if they are even a single frame under 30. Most people want 40-60fps WITH pretty water and sunshafts and stuff. Yes a retina can get that, but trust me if i crank settings to where i want them on a retina AT retina resolution, i will be very unhappy with fps and scale resolution down to probably 1400x900 or something so i can have solid fps. But then, at that point, why even bother getting retina?. So again, more valid points to mention to an op. I HATE raiding at anything less than 40fps. the UI is not as responsive and reaction to things is slower. Movement is less fluid. etc. I find 20fps very unplayable.

I don't think there is anything negative about my post at all. Most buyers are uninformed about retina's shortcomings and i simply make a point to give them. The buyer still chooses what to get on their own once presented with the information. I do tell em it has a better screen. I also know that in all honesty, a 15 inch retina screen is a little sharper but really not that magical. Side by side it to a non retina and Open same game on both and tell me if that slightly more crisp image is worth what you had to turn off or down to get it.

So it comes down to, does the OP intend to replace it in 2-3 years or in 4-5. Does he want to have more options down the road when he needs more memory, or more space. Does he want to actually have the option for an optical drive. (yes i bring it up a lot, it's a LAPTOP. I'm sorry but anyone who feels a laptop doesn't need optical drive is clearly spoiled by a city full of wifi or something (or just likes backpacking around with external storage).

I actually don't buy a lot of dvds and do a lot of streaming (360p though do to bandwidth). However, if I go on a road trip or something, my car doesn't have internet. If i end up at a hotel with crap internet (trust me this happens often), etc. Again this can all be solved by external storage true, but just as easily a DVD or a run to video store. the car example especially doesn't favor having attachments like external storage on your lap. I think the greatest benefit to laptops is a portable machine without attachments that can do everything that a desktop can (just not as good.

This also fails to even mention, software installation and things like that. Also, how did you get all that media on external storage in first place? rip it with an optical drive? or download it all? Your entire situation hinges on all around very good internet. Take me for example, highest speed internet available for me is 1M download speed. Download a movie? I rip a movie maybe but I wlll NEVER download one. unless I do it while i'm on vacation for days.. So this also hinges on the quality of internet service the OP can count on having at their disposal not only at home, but wherever they intend to bring their MBP.

Also, if i sound argumentative. I'm not. My tone is of calm debate form. The OP asked for MBP vs rMBP, so presentation from both sides to make a case is exactly what he was asking for. There is nothing negative at all about posting any thoughts on the matter at all. Just as your comments are just as fruitful in OPs decision as it obviously lets him see counter debate and make more informed decision. In fact. I like that the thread has walls of text that can make it far more informative than just 1-2 people going "yeah get this one"
I like this back-and-forth. It's informative, and it's good-natured. I hope.

Exactly :)
Edited by Omegal on 4/1/2013 4:43 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
4530
It's certainly good natured for my part. I was a PC guy up until about 5 years ago, upgrading this and that yearly and building a new gaming rig every three years. I'm older, busier and don't have time for that any more, but I get where these guys are coming from.

To be honest, I still have an SLI dual-520 gaming PC in my office. I get exceptional frame rates at ultra, everything maxed out and the PC itself is 3-5 years old. I never turn it on though as I simply prefer the overall experience on my iMac or rMBP.

04/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
The first sentence here is mostly true, aside from the 'interior case parts' comment. As for your assertion that 'most gamers' would want to run at a certain level, I think you don't know just how well WoW can run on a rMBP at mostly high/ultra settings. Yes, I adjusted down sunshafts and water detail, but I'm running full Retina resolution with max draw distance and most options at high/ultra. It is pretty. I do have a MaxFPS cap of 20 and realize that some people prefer a regular FPS of 3x+ that, but I have run the exact settings with 50-60FPS with no problem. The only reason I throttle my FPS is that I like to see my fans stay at 2k and my temps not exceed 60c. I baby the machine, but I know that I don't have to.


You just defeated the purpose of the rMBP purchase right here. If you're paying extra just for a screen, and then turn down that much, you aren't really running at what the machine could run at. And you might get decent framerates in non-MoP zones, but in MoP areas on an rMBP, you're not going to hit that high unless you're in a cave if you're running at native resolution. The 680MX is good, but not that good.

And turning down sunshafts and water detail doesn't quite qualify as playing on ultra.


Nope, I didn't defeat the purpose one bit. I'm looking at 2880x1800 pixels running at a frame rate just shy of what you get at a movie theater and barely stressing my system at all. Further, my frame rates are consistent wherever I am in the game - which is mostly MoP areas or LFR.

Also, sun shafts and water detail do not define ultra settings. No Mac is going to react well to sun shafts or water detail due to OpenGL.

04/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
Sure, I am an early adopter in those regards, but I believe that everyone knows that is the direction technology is traveling. Truthfully, it makes me sad when people cite the lack of an optical drive as a killing point for computers. It's dinosaur technology very soon.


Not everybody has access to high data cap internet and/or fast speeds. Nor does everybody have the time and patience to put their entire DVD collection onto an NAS (or the money for the capacity for some collections).

And Apple would be doing a good number of their customers a favor if they'd finally put a damned blu-ray drive into at least some of their computers.

<-- Netflix customer here. I save my data cap for gaming and web surfing, and use physical media (which btw a lot doesn't rip well these days due to excessive anti-piracy measures on the discs). I even have a couple Star Trek: Enterprise discs that refuse to rip properly, even after being de-macrovisioned. They play back as gibberish from my HD, but play perfectly from the optical drive. There's more discs out there than you think that have this issue.

Also, for my game installers - I prefer to not eat my data cap to death with downloadable installers whenever I can. I prefer a physical install medium, something I wish OS X itself still had.


No argument here. If you have data caps to deal with, using iTunes / Netflix / Hulu / etc... for your content consumption may not make sense. I doubt I could ever live under a data cap.

04/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
Oh, and that lovely recovery partition thing that requires an internet connection to restore OS X. Yeah, that worked out well didn't it. I've seen it handily fail in epic manners even on good internet connections. Don't have internet and no physical disc or medium to install from? You're toast.


I've never had to restore any of my Macs - nor do I hear any horror stories from the many Mac-owners that I regularly converse with IRL or on the Internet.

04/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
I've also gotta have a drive to rip those playstation discs if I want to use a playstation emulator on the go. Not happening on an rMBP.


Again, no experience in this area, but you can certainly obtain a USB optical drive if this is your thing.

04/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
You also sacrifice one very important connector: Ethernet. The rMBP has only wireless access, meaning if you aren't in a place with wireless, you're boned. And if you game, wireless is much less desirable than wired, and the regular MBP has both connection methods. You give up all that for an HDMI port on the rMBP, and you can get that via a MDP->HDMI adapter which will cost you less (by far) than the premium you pay for a machine with less connections on it.


I game wirelessly all of the time in my house and haven't heard any complaints from my party or raid members. Further, there is a USB Ethernet adapter if you require a physical connection. I don't think the rMBP is thick enough for an embedded Ethernet Port anyway - such is the price of progress. I don't think this is a deal-breaker. As for the HDMI, I do scratch my head on that one - I would have much preferred an additional USB in its place.

04/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
You give up way too much on the rMBP for it to be practical for many.


I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Still, I feel it's my job here to look out for those of us who might find the machine desirable for our purposes. :)

(Edited again because I apparently can't perfect the art of quoting without stealing someone's signature line...)
Edited by Hàvók on 4/1/2013 4:53 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
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Also, sun shafts and water detail do not define ultra settings. No Mac is going to react well to sun shafts or water detail due to OpenGL.

actually mac pros like my 2008 play on ultra water, high shadows and high sun shafts. i just can't use ultra shadows cause then i see an fps drop. in fact, water low and water ultra, identical fps, same for sunshafts, or shadows high vs low. with a 5870 and a 7950. OpenGL handles water very well. However, certain gpus do not (do to bad drivers). ati 4870 although not that bad of a card, can't even remotely handle any type of reflection or sunshaft or shadow effect without fps heavily tanking on OS X (but does fine in windows). ati never really addressed it because the 5000 series cards came out and got the focus instead.

When it comes to gaming, i love my mac pro and no other machine. which is why no update in 3 years is upsetting because i am ready to go from 2008 to 2013. even though i still get 60fps solid mostly everywhere, i can't do it at ULTRA anymore. although i can still say confidently i'll still be good to go another 1-2 years if i have to. I actually don't use Macbook pro for gaming, ever. for me a laptop is about mobility. when i'm ready to sit down and game, it's time for the desktop. :)
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90 Tauren Druid
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04/01/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Omegal
You mention it's lighter, and comment that not everyone needs internal storage space because you can carry around heavy external storage space?. :p


I also said that I NEVER (and I do mean never) use it. But thanks for calling me out on not being tidy enough to take it out of my bag. :D

04/01/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Omegal
In 2 years, I'll still be under warranty. By 3 years from now I'll have upgraded or be looking to upgrade. What we both don't know is what situation the OP is in when it comes to how long he wants to have his machine.

That's true, but you just admit, the retina is ok for you because you treat it like a throw away machine. Seeing these wow forums, i can tell you most do not have that view. I see tons of older macbooks even now from 2009 or 2008 still playing today (granted apples current OS support system is sort of ruining that these days).
people want their investment to last longer. they want to be able to throw in some extra ram, or a faster HDD/SSD drive down the road. Granted MBPs or rMBP don't have upgradable graphics cards, which is ultimately their short coming in actually lasting beyond 4-5 years (vs a mac pro which can last easily 5-7 years). but upgrading every 4-5 you will need to take it apart, service out dust, probably add more memory. So servicing is an important option to consider as part of an investment. You should worry about the later when making such a high item purchase. Not everyone can just focus on the now and throw it away when it ceases to be of use.


True and I am admittedly assuming that those people in the market for a rMBP have more disposable income for their tech. Not snobbishly doing so, mind you. I grew up poor as dirt and am extraordinarily cheap when it comes to most things in my life. But I am fond of tech and don't believe that I'm the only person out there in a similar situation.

Also, to clear up this assertion that I treat my machines as 'throw-away' devices... I have every computer that I've ever owned (starting with my Tandy 64k Color Computer) neatly packed away in the corner of my garage. I throw nothing away, sir!

04/01/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Omegal
I also know VERY few who are happy playing at 20fps.


I know I'm in the minority there, but I also said that I did it because I baby my machine. I have played on my rMBP at a sold 50-60 with the same settings, but the fans kick up to where i don't want them to be. Settings are certainly cranked up to full-ultra on my iMac but a consistent 20fps doesn't make the game any less playable or fun for me - its not a sideshow at that count.

04/01/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Omegal
I don't think there is anything negative about my post at all


Well why do I always imagine you shaking your fists and thinking "don't buy that piece of crap" when someone asks about the rMBP? ;)

04/01/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Omegal
I also know that in all honesty, a 15 inch retina screen is a little sharper but really not that magical.


Wrong! It's magical like a wizard. I don't think anyone puts themselves in the market for a rMBP unless they are interested in that display.

04/01/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Omegal
I'm sorry but anyone who feels a laptop doesn't need optical drive is clearly spoiled by a city full of wifi or something (or just likes backpacking around with external storage).


1) I'm taking that damned drive out of my bag as I type. You've got me there.
2) I live in semi-rural Missouri, but do admit that there is WiFi in most places that I need it. Also, I have a phone and a tablet that can act as a 3G / 4G hotspot in a pinch.
3) I still don't think I could survive with a data cap. It's 2013 - can someone explain why they exist?

This also fails to even mention, software installation and things like that. Also, how did you get all that media on external storage in first place? rip it with an optical drive? or download it all? Your entire situation hangs on good Internet.


True. See #3 above. I may be blind to this problem and if so, I apologize to all. Seriously.

Also, if i sound argumentative. I'm not. My tone is of calm debate form. The OP asked for MBP vs rMBP, so presentation from both sides to make a case is exactly what he was asking for. There is nothing negative at all about posting any thoughts on the matter at all. Just as your comments are just as fruitful in OPs decision as it obviously lets him see counter debate and make more informed decision. In fact. I like that the thread has walls of text that can make it far more informative than just 1-2 people going "yeah get this one"
I like this back-and-forth. It's informative, and it's good-natured. I hope.

Exactly :)


No - I didn't mean to accuse you of sounding argumentative. We're good, homie! I just thought the machine (and the people who love theirs) deserved some opposing discussion.

But I really do imagine you shaking your fist and thinking "don't buy that piece of crap" every time someone mentions the rMBP.. :)
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90 Tauren Druid
4530
04/01/2013 05:05 PMPosted by Omegal
actually mac pros like my 2008


Well done, sir! Yes, you deserve an update. I believe they will have something by the end of 2013. Of course with AAPL, it's all conjecture until it's official.

when i'm ready to sit down and game, it's time for the desktop. :)


Agreed. I don't consider my rMBP my best option for gaming - in fact, it's #3 for gaming under my roof. Still, it is very capable and I do game on it often when out and about.

I think we've all made good points here. I wonder which machine OP got...
Edited by Hàvók on 4/1/2013 6:25 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
13495
[quote]
You also sacrifice one very important connector: Ethernet. The rMBP has only wireless access, meaning if you aren't in a place with wireless, you're boned.


Guess you've never seen one of these…. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD463ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adaptor
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Human Warrior
18630
Isn't thunderbolt a lot of juice though? I completely forgot about lack of built in eithernet. that's kind of a killer for me too. One of the biggest things I did with my laptop at a previous job was brought it to work and plugged it straight into that very fast government line that could download an entire gig in seconds.
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90 Human Priest
6120
Guess you've never seen one of these…. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD463ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adaptor


1) It's power hungry, thus a huge battery eater.

2) You lose out on an external display unless you pay through the nose for daisy chaining capability.

Oh, and...

3) Hope you like even more danglies. Protip: Most people get these laptops with all the connectors on them so they don't have to lug around a crapton of adapters and dongles.. :)

Thunderbolt is the "jack of all trades, master of none" connector.

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Edited by Tiapriestess on 4/1/2013 7:20 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
4530
04/01/2013 07:19 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
2) You lose out on an external display unless you pay through the nose for daisy chaining capability.


Mini-Display-Port plugs right in to the Thunderbolt adapter.

04/01/2013 07:19 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
3) Hope you like even more danglies. Protip: Most people get these laptops with all the connectors on them so they don't have to lug around a crapton of adapters and dongles.. :)


The only dongle/adapter that I lug around is a $10 MagSafe to MagSafe2 adapter because I have several MagSafe cables at home / work. I use my laptop for work at work, on the road and home every day. How do I Pro?

Again, I do use WiFi everywhere so I can't comment on the Ethernet adapter, but your assertion that someone needs to lug around a bucket of adapters and dongles may not ring true for many or most users.
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- Technical Support
90 Human Priest
6120
Mini-Display-Port plugs right in to the Thunderbolt adapter.


You lose out on other devices depending on what adapters you need for thunderbolt. For instance, the Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter needs to be the last device in the chain. So does an external display, thunderbolt or otherwise.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD463ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adaptor

As I said, Thunderbolt is a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none connector. More often than not you're faced with an "either/or" situation.

The rMBP has a nice display itself, but it sacrifices way too much to justify both the cost and inconvenience it inevitably brings for anybody that isn't surrounded by wi-fi 100% of the time or has even a modest data cap. If you're lucky enough to be teh former without the restrictions of the latter, then yes, the rMBP is going to suit you just fine 99% of the time.

For the rest of us, and anybody that likes to game at something more than not-quite-24 Hz-refresh-rate, the regular MBP is likely to serve far better.

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