Bag of Hydra-Spawn proc rate hotfixed

90 Night Elf Druid
15480
RF version proced 13 times on a nine minute meg yesterday and did 250k total healing or .8% overall. Still pretty terrible.

Shield of Hydra Sputum 255882 0.8 % 13 19683.2 255882 - - - 00:41 (7.6 %) 15.4 %
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90 Draenei Priest
0
Were you using recount to check to see if it procced? Cause recount doesn't register the shield for some reason.


No, I stopped using recount in Cata and switched skada
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
The 535 version of this trinket was accounting for about 1.5% of my output on most fights. Pre-buff, it was 0.8%-1%. Realistically, it needs to be 5%-6% for the throughput to exceed that of the T14 trinkets, and for it to be itemized properly for its ilvl.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4440
Used it for all of my raid last night starting at ToES and first 2 bosses of ToT (WE FINALLY GOT HORRIDON!!!!!)

Procced 54 times over 3 hours. Absolutely pathetic trinket. I ended up using my Vial of Ichorus Blood for our Horridon kill as I'm way, way more comfortable using it than something I can never see/notice.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
17870
The 535 version of this trinket was accounting for about 1.5% of my output on most fights. Pre-buff, it was 0.8%-1%. Realistically, it needs to be 5%-6% for the throughput to exceed that of the T14 trinkets, and for it to be itemized properly for its ilvl.


Is the proc portions of one T14 trinket really worth 5-6% of your output, especially in T15 level gear? Admittedly its harder to quantify this sort of thing for healers, but on my ww monk the secondary/proc portions of one 522 trinket (which is well itemized) tend to be worth somewhere ~4% of total dps output in gear that is still mostly T14 level, so probably will be ~3% in more equivalent gear. I suppose its possible that healers scale more quickly with int than my monk scales with agility (though agility is by far the best stat for ww), the proc I removed averaged to about 1600 agility.

I dunno, It just seems to me that sometimes people have unreasonably high expectations of a trinket when its effects are directly visible on a log/recount as part of the breakdown.

Which is to say, 1.5% is probably still a tad low but I don't think 5-6% would possibly slightly overbudget rather than being like, a minimum to be itemized properly. I think it should probably represent ~4% of your output with gear approximately in line with the item level of the trinket.

Or maybe its just that T14 had some extremely high budget trinkets more than anything. In particular the MGV trinkets (like the will trinket you mentioned) with the 45 second internal cooldown had way higher average stats from the proc compared to most ones out of HoF/Terrace assuming equivalent ilvl (and its not like the passive part of the MGV trinkets were lower to compensate). They are actually higher on average than 522 trinkets that proc a primary stat (again just looking at the proc part).

I mean, its possible that the MGV trinkets were "right" and everything else was under budget, but I think its more likely the other way around, especially since the more generic Throne trinkets (passive stats that proc stats) are itemized in line with the HoF/Terrace trinkets and not the MGV trinkets.
Edited by Asthas on 4/3/2013 3:56 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4440
Looking over my logs from last night, average shield was about 18.8k with a max of 22.3k. Having that proc only 54 times over my entire raid night equates to around a 1m total over the night and considering I'll heal between 18-30m in a single fight (depending on the fight of course), it's not looking good. I get that shield from casting only a spell or two from my Mastery. Even considering the primary stat it gives, while Spirit is great it doesn't win against Intellect. If it had flat intellect instead of spirit I would consider this trinket over a few others until I can find a replacement but as it stands now, it's an ilvl booster that sits in my bags while I wait for Horridons or get lucky with Tsulongs.
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100 Draenei Mage
19360
The 535 version of this trinket was accounting for about 1.5% of my output on most fights. Pre-buff, it was 0.8%-1%. Realistically, it needs to be 5%-6% for the throughput to exceed that of the T14 trinkets, and for it to be itemized properly for its ilvl.


^. It needs to make up way more total healing than it does, even buffed. It's still a piece of junk.
Edited by Ryegeleye on 4/3/2013 5:02 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
04/03/2013 03:06 PMPosted by Asthas
The 535 version of this trinket was accounting for about 1.5% of my output on most fights. Pre-buff, it was 0.8%-1%. Realistically, it needs to be 5%-6% for the throughput to exceed that of the T14 trinkets, and for it to be itemized properly for its ilvl.


Is the proc portions of one T14 trinket really worth 5-6% of your output, especially in T15 level gear? Admittedly its harder to quantify this sort of thing for healers, but on my ww monk the secondary/proc portions of one 522 trinket (which is well itemized) tend to be worth somewhere ~4% of total dps output in gear that is still mostly T14 level, so probably will be ~3% in more equivalent gear. I suppose its possible that healers scale more quickly with int than my monk scales with agility (though agility is by far the best stat for ww), the proc I removed averaged to about 1600 agility.

I dunno, It just seems to me that sometimes people have unreasonably high expectations of a trinket when its effects are directly visible on a log/recount as part of the breakdown.

Which is to say, 1.5% is probably still a tad low but I don't think 5-6% would possibly slightly overbudget rather than being like, a minimum to be itemized properly. I think it should probably represent ~4% of your output with gear approximately in line with the item level of the trinket.

Or maybe its just that T14 had some extremely high budget trinkets more than anything. In particular the MGV trinkets (like the will trinket you mentioned) with the 45 second internal cooldown had way higher average stats from the proc compared to most ones out of HoF/Terrace assuming equivalent ilvl (and its not like the passive part of the MGV trinkets were lower to compensate). They are actually higher on average than 522 trinkets that proc a primary stat (again just looking at the proc part).

I mean, its possible that the MGV trinkets were "right" and everything else was under budget, but I think its more likely the other way around, especially since the more generic Throne trinkets (passive stats that proc stats) are itemized in line with the HoF/Terrace trinkets and not the MGV trinkets.


Yes - the INT proc average from the heroic Will trinket and the static INT on the fully upgraded Spirits of the Sun, as well as the Horridon trinket and the Shado Pan VP trinket are all in the 1400-1700 range. 1400 to 1700 INT would increase my total INT by 8-11%, which means approximately 8-11% more raw throughput. Of course, you have to also take overhealing into account, which is why I pin the actual value of the INT procs/static INT in the 5-6% range. The shield based proc trinkets have almost 0 overheal because they are absorbs, but they still are only providing 0.7% to 1.5% output, which means they could stand to be buffed by at least 400%.

In comparison, previous random heal/throughput proc trinkets had much stronger procs. Eye of Blazing Power from Firelands added 6-7% extra healing, and Althor's Abacus from ICC added a similar amount. It really needs to be that high for the random procs to be remotely competitive with procs of pure stats.

The only reason that I am even using them over T14 trinkets (I have 2/2 upgraded Spirits and Will trinkets) is because I am going with the MTT bot/maximum Spirit gearing route for heroic progression.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/03/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Tiberria
Eye of Blazing Power from Firelands added 6-7% extra healing,


Eye of Blazing Power was horrible. It was a terrible trinket with a ridiculous 2 min ICD. It never added that much healing.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
17870
Increasing your total int by 10% doesn't increase your total healing by anywhere near 10%. You are neglecting base heal values and the spellpower on your weapon. Just as reference, I logged in my shaman and removed gear to go from 15767 int to 13303 int (a 16.2% reduction in int) and the instant heal of riptide went from to 16519 to 15320 (a 7.3% reduction in healing). Now, in better gear and with raid buffs those two percentages would become closer (mostly because base healing would matter less, but the spell power from a weapon scales with gear so that would remain roughly equally relevant), but they would still be distinctly different. A 10% increase in int would be closer to a 5% boost in raw healing than a 10% boost. But since you actually have the trinket (at least, an upgraded heroic version), you could measure how much bigger your heals get when the proc is active versus not, and then modify that by the uptime, and use that to determine roughly how much it increases your overall raw healing to get a more accurate figure.

So being generous, maybe the will trinket proc is 6% raw healing, subject to overhealing. But also keep in mind that "increasing healing by 6%" and "contributing 6% of your total healing" aren't the same thing. They are reasonably close for small percentages, but if the absorption trinket showed up at 50% on recount, that means it increased your healing by 100% (compared to not wearing a trinket at all), not 50%. But that 6% is of the first type, it'd be 6% increase over not wearing a trinket at all, which would be less than 6% on recount/logs if it could show up there, even without overhealing. Not much less though, overhealing is a more important consideration.

And again the Will trinket's proc (like the other MGV trinkets) is extremely overbudget compared to other trinkets, so its somewhat of a flawed comparison. It has appropriate passive stats for its item level but it has the strongest proc out of any healing trinket in T14 and at the least any 522 level trinket I can think of (mostly thinking about the ones that just provide stats since they make for easier comparisons)

And yea, I also don't remember eye of blazing power doing 6-7% when I had it (and I did have a heroic one). Never did get an abacus in ICC.
Edited by Asthas on 4/3/2013 6:45 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
I clearly remember Eye of Blazing Power adding 6-7% healing on pretty much every H Rag progression attempt (as a holy pally). Maybe it was closer to 4-5% on other fights, but it always did a decent amount of healing because although random, it was a smart heal and rarely overhealed significantly.
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65 Dwarf Shaman
10415
Never heard of Eye of Blazing Power doing that good in FL, even Heroic level. It was always quite pitiful and most people were running with SoW and FoM, iirc. Firelands wasn't very solid on healer trinkets either.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Reports on WoWhead from the time they were relevant indicate Eye of Blazing Power was like 2-3% of healing done, and the same for Althor's Abacus. Which is pretty bad, but still better than even the postbuff version of Inscribed Bag of Hydra-Spawn.
Edited by Mahourai on 4/3/2013 7:34 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I clearly remember Eye of Blazing Power adding 6-7% healing on pretty much every H Rag progression attempt (as a holy pally). Maybe it was closer to 4-5% on other fights, but it always did a decent amount of healing because although random, it was a smart heal and rarely overhealed significantly.


Never saw that, for any character - even a Druid, who arguably had the best chance of proccing it. Every healer I knew wanted the Shard of Woe and the trinket off of Domo. We sharded every single Eye of Blazing Power we got. I don't understand how it could do 6-7% of your healing done with a 2 min ICD unless you were doing hardly any actual healing.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Never saw that, for any character - even a Druid, who arguably had the best chance of proccing it. Every healer I knew wanted the Shard of Woe and the trinket off of Domo. We sharded every single Eye of Blazing Power we got. I don't understand how it could do 6-7% of your healing done with a 2 min ICD unless you were doing hardly any actual healing.


I originally posted the same thing because I remembered Eye as having double the ICD of Althor's Abacus but upon checking wowhead they have an identical 45s ICD.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/04/2013 12:59 PMPosted by Mahourai
Never saw that, for any character - even a Druid, who arguably had the best chance of proccing it. Every healer I knew wanted the Shard of Woe and the trinket off of Domo. We sharded every single Eye of Blazing Power we got. I don't understand how it could do 6-7% of your healing done with a 2 min ICD unless you were doing hardly any actual healing.


I originally posted the same thing because I remembered Eye as having double the ICD of Althor's Abacus but upon checking wowhead they have an identical 45s ICD.


Then it must have been changed, because...I swear it was a 2 min ICD. I had the thing on my Shaman and it was quite honestly the most worthless trinket I've ever had on her.

Well, until I got this trinket on Tiriel. :-\
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
I still love the person who made a thread titled "Inscribed Bag of !@#$"
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Then it must have been changed, because...I swear it was a 2 min ICD. I had the thing on my Shaman and it was quite honestly the most worthless trinket I've ever had on her.

Well, until I got this trinket on Tiriel. :-\


I found the procs on both to be pretty worthless but I remembered it as being longer on Eye as well. However a Wowhead post indicates it was 45s even on the 4.2 PTR.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
17985
I hate to agree with Tiberria, but I had the eye and it definitely did that much % healing.

Additionally. I chain casted spells on my raid, RM \ Uplift \ SM last night for about 4 minutes straight.

The bag procced once.
Edited by Mist on 4/4/2013 1:33 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
The bag procced once.


You got that from logs?

Not that i think it is good or anything but in a 5 min attempt on something yesterday it procced 9 times, though it still only accounted for 1.4% of overall healing.
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