An In-depth Guide to Feral PvP (5.4 Updated)

90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Power will come naturally, whereas you should take as much resil as possible. Since most kills come on swaps you're almost always (unless you're playing with a shaman) at risk to be swapped to. This should prove even more true in 5.3 when Resilience will only be attainable through gems and enchants.
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98 Night Elf Druid
8980
In 5.3, we will have a base 65% resilence. That's more than I have presently.
I might do an experiment. Swap out all my yellow and blue gems for Vivid Wild Jade and compare results to my present gemming. You never know until you try, and this is the money expansion.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Yeah, I mean resilience is always great but if you feel you can stay alive with less res and more power go for it; just sit on whatever rating you feel comfortable with.

In other news; slightly updated some formatting issues as well as the "FAQ".
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90 Troll Druid
11540
Nice Pretty Kitty Guide ^^
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
7135
Sticky Request. Great guide for me just getting to 90 with a druid. Lots of great info.

(Personally bookmarked)
Edited by Setekh on 4/30/2013 10:07 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Thanks! Glad to see I can help out. :)

Now if only Blizz would get past their 7 stickies rule. (I'm assuming on this rule due to no class forum having more than 7)
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Thanks! Glad to see I can help out. :)

Now if only Blizz would get past their 7 stickies rule. (I'm assuming on this rule due to no class forum having more than 7)


That rule shouldn't apply to druids because we have four specs.
Edited by Toreaux on 5/3/2013 1:25 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
.pmuB

Note I didn't join the leafy side, I'm simply fighting boredom between stinges with no 3s partners.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
So I tried out Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault today in 2s. It can put out some insane damage if you decide not to use a Medallion (to break CC) but I don't think it's worth using WITH the medallion, since it only offers 400 more AGI than the normal proc trinket but at a cost of ~1300 pvp power in exchange for hit, which we're already over (or close to) after reforging away all of it off our usual gear.

TL;DR: Great for screwing around in 2s or BGs to blow people up, but shouldn't be used in serious 3s. Might be able to get away with it in RBGs.
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90 Worgen Druid
17805
So I tried out Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault today in 2s. It can put out some insane damage if you decide not to use a Medallion (to break CC) but I don't think it's worth using WITH the medallion, since it only offers 400 more AGI than the normal proc trinket but at a cost of ~1300 pvp power in exchange for hit, which we're already over (or close to) after reforging away all of it off our usual gear.

TL;DR: Great for screwing around in 2s or BGs to blow people up, but shouldn't be used in serious 3s. Might be able to get away with it in RBGs.

The effect is doubled so you can't just say it "only offers 400 more AGI". I don't use it all the time, but it can still definitely be used in 3s (I'm very rarely the one attacked in my comp so the resil is whatever).

And isn't PvP power getting nerfed at 5.3? Wowhead says on live vs PTR it will go from 5.56% damage increase and 1.14% damage reduction (from power/resil) to 3.79% damage increase and no damage reduction (with the removal of resil from gear). Not sure how the reduction of item level will affect the Talisman though.

Not saying one is necessarily better than the other, just saying it's viable.
Edited by Dysheki on 5/7/2013 8:27 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Well while it's got a 40s duration going for it, even with the PvP power nerf you've still got wasted stats due to the immense amount of hit on the Talisman. Depending on the uptime you've got while it's active (unlucky CC chains on you) it could be decent I imagine, though I'm usually just mostly pooling after we've hit burst windows anyways until next TF anyways, so I guess it's kind of up in the air to me.

If no one is going on you in 3's you're a very lucky feral; I'm usually prime target unless I'm playing FMP or FPS. Jealous. :p

Probably screwing around with this Power build for the week and seeing how it (and possibly the Talisman) is in 3's (if I can even manage to find a team this week).
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WHAT? No sticky?!?
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Haven't really bothered bumping since a sticky is obviously not coming, but bumping now for when I can update a few (very few) things for 5.3 changes incoming tomorrow.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Updated AGI vs Power for 5.3:
To save space I'll simply be showing the PVP power conversions and comparing them to the AGI conversions already done on my previous post here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8518011785?page=2#22

    Changes to PvP Power for Patch 5.3:
  • PvP Power conversion ratio to obtain 1% damage at level 90 has been changed from 265 to 400.
  • Damage specializations for Druids, Monks, Paladins, Priests, and Shamans receive a 70% bonus to healing from PvP Power.
  • PvP Power and Resilience amounts have been halved on gems.


Math Time!

Total # of (non-meta)sockets over a full PvP gear set: 12.

For the sake of comparison let's say we ignore all socket bonuses and just gem either purely agility or purely PvP power.

AGI: 12*160 = 1920*1.05 (leather spec) = 2016*1.05 (Motw) = 2116.8
1 Agil = .476 Crit Rating
2116.8*.476=1007.5968 Crit rating.
Alaron has 1 point of crit at ~.36 of Agility in t15H gear, so for argument's sake we'll say ~.45 to offset the item level.
1007.5968*.45=453.41856
453.1856+2116.8 = 2570.21856

Total: 2570.21856 AGI

Editor's note to the above: obviously the extra "agility" from crit won't translate into the actual model for Rip, however I've chosen to include it in order to add the benefit of critical strike rating gained from gemming Agility.

PvP Power: 12*160 = 1920

Total: 1920 PvP Power.

-----

Now let's take damage conversion. We'll use Rip in this example since I can't find an easy answer for the conversion of Mangle or Shred. Let's say before we gem the gear we have 10000 agility. That makes for 20000 AP.

AGI Rip = 56732.9289152 Damage over 16 seconds.
(As stated in my previous post, damage may not be correct but as long as the formula to get the damage stays constant we can see the comparison.)

400 PvP Power for 1% rating gain.
1920 / 400 = 4.8% Power
PvP Power Rip = (113 + 320 * 5 * 1.25 + 0.0484 * 5 * (20000) * 1.25 * 8) * 1.048
PvP Power Rip = (113 + 2000 + 48400) * 1.048

PvP Power Rip = 52937.624 Damage over 16 seconds.

-----

Healing conversion time! We'll use Healing Touch since it's got a nice formula:
Healing Touch = 18460 to 21800 (+ 186% of SpellPower). We'll use a number between 18460 and 21800 of the HT equation, 20000. Let's say our spell healing for this example is 10000.

Firstly, 186.5% as a number is 3.865. (if it's not, oh well, pretend it is)

AGI HT = 68583.8947344 healing

We get 70% healing from PvP Power.
1920 * 0.7 = 1344
1344 / 400 = 3.36% PvP Power.
PvP Power HT = (20000 + (3.865 * 10000)) * 1.336
PvP Power HT = (58650) * 1.336

PvP Power HT = 78356.4 healing

So in summary:
AGI Rip: ~56733 Damage over 16 seconds (Unchanged)
AGI HT: ~68584 Health Restored (Unchanged)

PvP Power Rip: ~52938 Damage over 16 seconds (Down from 5.2)
PvP Power HT: ~78356.4 Health restored (Very slightly down from 5.2)

Conclusion: We will see a better result in terms of damage output with Agility in 5.3 when compared to Power, but we will also see a small loss in terms of healing output, though nothing extremely noticable (+/-13%).
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
TL;DR for above post btw is AGI > Power (and to most extents resilience) in 5.3. Hooray for regemming..... -_-

Might make another mathy-type post to show resilience change effects but I'm hoping AJ is way ahead of me so I can just be cheap and link there. ;)
Edited by Kals on 5/20/2013 4:52 PM PDT
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90 Undead Monk
12175
Hunter - Play Dead. 30s CD, drops combat and causes the enemy to de-target you. Hunters gain Dash.


FD is by far one of the best ones we can get. The ability stop inc spells to FD prowl ravage or pounce next to a target.. Is just to amazing.. FD the hunters stampede pets or cc from any class..

Its great.. and mabye if u could see that might be higher then lower 2k in all them seasons
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
FD is decent (and I suppose tossing it up to "good" might be ok), but I believe most would agree not better than Dispersion or Divine Shield in a 3v3 situation, especially if you're giving your disc Cyclone.

The attempt to troll in this thread is entirely pointless, as it's meant to inform those seeking information on Feral PvP. I'd appreciate if you could keep your derogatory comments to yourself and keep the thread civil and informative.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13910
How is this not a sticky yet?
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92 Tauren Druid
13175
The attempt to troll in this thread is entirely pointless, as it's meant to inform those seeking information on Feral PvP. I'd appreciate if you could keep your derogatory comments to yourself and keep the thread civil and informative.


Now you have just lost your mind, Since i posted on my monk i can assume you think i was trollen, or my comments was derogatory. But here is the simple fact, i have played 2200+ what seems like every season since season 1 on mutli chars.

I never said FD was better then DIsp or divi shield, but at the end of the day i would take the FD from the hunter before the shield from the pala everyday. I have found FD to be far more powerful because of the short CD of only 30sec on it. Every 30sec can get a restealth. Every 30sec can FD a block or bolt, or players pets off of you.. Every 30sec can kill the focus the other team had set on you makeing them have to put you back on focus. FD is very powerfull.

Now you play the armory game look at my stats.. I have more then enough info to speak in a damn post about feral pvp
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
The troll comment was the fact that you felt the need to apply my arena rating towards the discussion when it is entirely irrelevent to the discussion. As long as decent information is being shared, I honestly don't care which toon it's posted from.

Your point about FB has been noted, and I will update it to the "good" category in light of your analysis, however I will not move it to "best" as Symbiosis is a team ability first and foremost and as I previously stated Cyclone is a much stronger ability to grant to your Disc partner than Dash to your hunter partner.

I will however add an addendum to Feign Death in the section pointing to your post in order to allow players to see the extra benefits of Feign Death so they may make a more informed decision.
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