Hey Admins, Only 4 Raiding Guilds Left!

90 Blood Elf Priest
12380
I heard through the grapevine that one of the few remaining 10 mans on server will be leaving after the holiday specifically due to lack of people to recruit. They are awesome people and will undoubtedly be missed.

I know for a fact another guild is considering leaving. There is only one guild progressing Alliance side. There is only one 25 man on server and they raid 10 a portion of the time because even they cannot recruit the people they need. Things rarely sell on the horde AH. The alliance AH is dead as the only guild remaining more or less sells amongst themselves. People ask for crz invites to Droc for rare achievements as rares are up 99% of the time.

All these things should tell you something!

I know you guys want us to pay for transfers off this rock. It's not happening. We know and you know you are losing money on a server like ours- we are not giving you more money to fix the problem by transferring to another realm. Why? Because there is nothing to stop this same problem from occurring again. This is a bad business practice on Blizzard's part and it is in your best interest to fix said problem if you want to keep customers.

Think about it- if we could afford to move or were willing to abandon our friends on Droc, we probably already would have. The remaining population is left with the choices of re-rolling, leaving our guilds or friends behind, or watching all of our friends disappear one after another as they get fed up. Then there are the people who flat out quit playing WoW- and I have known quite a few of those.

It doesn't have to end in a lose/lose, Blizzard.

You could merge us with another low pop realm, preferably one with inverse faction pop to ours. It would have a positive impact on both factions and re-ignite world pvp more than cross realm zones have (let's face it, crz "pvp" mostly consists of baddies ganking lowbies at the dark portal). There are many other servers in our exact situation, surely a solution can be found there.

I have two suggestions if you do not want to merge us with another realm.

1) Open us up as a suggested new player realm. Any infusion of new players is better than no players at all. MoP is attracting a lot of players back as well as first time players and many of them will do things that are important to a server- fuel the AH and join guilds and guild activities. I know for a fact Blizzard has done this for other servers and it improved server health.

2) Free transfers from a high pop realm TO Droc. It's a stable server with good ping and what's left of the community is fairly decent. There are in fact people who look for small servers to transfer to or to build on. There are in fact people who really dislike never seeing a rare and tripping over 500 people in org. There are in fact people who really dislike queue times to log in, too!

We've been after you guys about this for several years now- it's past time to do something about it. With the exception of a few trolls who will more than likely try to derail this post, most of the server is open to SOME kind of change. If a blue would like to have an open and honest discussion about all this, I'm sure it would be quite welcome.

Edit: updated for the loss of NI
Edited by Arithia on 4/23/2013 9:05 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
I wish, but this is something that should of been done a year ago.
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90 Orc Warlock
9555
Couldn't agree more about the dire state the server is in at this point. I don't think anything short of merging us with another(maybe even 2-3) servers also in desperate need of an injection of life will make it much better. Although your 2 alternative suggestions could maybe make a slight difference, I doubt it would be enough to bring this puppy back to life.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid this request will fall on deaf ears as blizzard seems to think that the circle of, noob ganks lowbie > lowbie gets main and crushes noob > main goes back to leveling lowbie, that crz is has somehow alleviated problems on low pop servers. All it has in fact done is make it more difficult to farm low level herbs/ore for professions(which was one of the few highlights of low pop servers in the first place).

Even if they just looked at this server's forums they could easily realize there's a big issue here. This thread is the first post in 5 days and the first new thread in over 2 weeks. At the very minimum we should have your alternative suggestions AND cross realm AH so it's not so discouraging to for transfers to come here assuming that it will be impossible to sell anything.

I understand the issues of names/guild names and the like, but surely some sort of workaround could be found. Seems like a small price to pay, giving up your name, to play the game the way it was intended to be played. This is a massively multilayer online role playing game after all...
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
From a Raiding perspective.......
I'm not pointing fingers or trying to bring offense, but I look at the SEVEN application forums daily for curiosity and either two things happen to the person, they are accepted or they are denied. When a player is denied they usually just leave the server. On top of that, the quality of the players who apply to SEVEN (a very prestious guild IMO who has some world class players) are half of what they used to be a year ago.
There needs to be more then just SEVEN, Bad Wolf and NI because there is no way for those players to improve before they reach the top tier of the server. Back in Wotlk when I was horde there were guilds who used to be "feeder" guilds. Guilds which people would run/farm the easy content but when they got geared would apply to the better guilds like SRN, End Guys, SEVEN, etc.......
Detheroc has no structure to breed better players, alot of people dont even know what it means to have the rank of "raider" within a guild. Its something that you have to expierence to actually realize the responsibility that rank comes with and its not just showing up on raid nights. Being a "Raider" means knowing your class better then anyone else in guild, constantly looking at ways to improve yourself at your given role. Looking up fights ahead of time and having flasks/potions/food every raid. On top of that there is also the ability to be replaced which no longer exists on the server. If a player used to underperform a Raid Leader used to beable to say "fix it or will have to replace you". There is no one to replace them with on Detheroc so theres no reason for them to improve because a warm body is still better then an empty raid spot in most cases.
People Looking to Start Raiding on Detheroc: Everyone has room to improve, I find mistakes in my play all the time, but I take the time to fix them. But I do that because thats part of the fun for me, being the best I can be. For many others the true motivating factor is Shiny purples which people need to learn are just pixels in a game. Gear is a tool for the guild to use to help kill the next boss, even though it says "Bind on Pickup" doesnt mean its yours. All gear belong to the guild and when its given to someone, that means they are trusting that person to use it to the fullest. Loot isnt something that should of handed out fairly, it should be handed out based on how much the guild can benefit from it. The only reason a person should raid is because they actually ENJOY RAIDING. (SHOCKER, I KNOW)
Maybe the time when that type of thinking is long gone, but thats what I expect from the people I raid with, and its something most people left on Detheroc dont understand.
Edited by Bonjwa on 4/1/2013 5:57 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14310
I don't think Blizz will do anything about it.
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90 Tauren Priest
8780
04/01/2013 05:53 AMPosted by Bonjwa
Detheroc has no structure to breed better players, alot of people dont even know what it means to have the rank of "raider" within a guild. Its something that you have to expierence to actually realize the responsibility that rank comes with and its not just showing up on raid nights. Being a "Raider" means knowing your class better then anyone else in guild, constantly looking at ways to improve yourself at your given role. Looking up fights ahead of time and having flasks/potions/food every raid. On top of that there is also the ability to be replaced which no longer exists on the server. If a player used to underperform a Raid Leader used to beable to say "fix it or will have to replace you". There is no one to replace them with on Detheroc so theres no reason for them to improve because a warm body is still better then an empty raid spot in most cases.


This is the BIGGEST problem we face right now. We have a core of about 12-15 players that I would put up against a lot of top guild players and I believe they would hold their own. A lot of them have been with us for at least one prior expansion and are still with us because they enjoy the atmosphere and structure of our guild and have developed close friendship with their guildies. The other 18-10 people are either newer (and probably undergeared) or for some reason hasn't fully grasped the concept of min/max and execution of mechanic's (IE...facerollers). Before when we had 8-10 people sitting waiting to get into a raid if someone was either constantly screwing up or putting up subpar #'s we would replace them, Now when we have 25 on we don't have much options.

Without a larger pool of guilds raiding there isn't a linear line of progression for someone to go from no raiding skill to competent raider. To go from never raiding before or only doing LFR to jumping into a guild who is doing heroics is practically impossible for 2 reason. 1) gear. If your gear is some LFR gear from the current tier and most from the previous then you are already behind the 8 ball when it comes to #'s in the raid. You are competing against people who have heroic gear from the last content and probably a decent amount of current tier gear. This means on progression you will be less favored to someone who has better gear (if that was an option). Since that isn't always an option we either bang our balls against a cold hard wall for a night due to dps levels below the requirement to kill a boss, or go back and gear people, both slow progression. 2) Execution. How much execution is required in LFR? Yeah exactly, so take someone from that experience and put them in a 25 progression experience... Some people can make the jump fairly quickly, however many will struggle for a while or never get it. Again if we had options these people would not survive. They would be let go and they would go back to the raiding pool of other guilds, and someone else could possibly move up to take their spot. Our current server status doesn't create that, its usually try with us....fail and either transfer off or just continue to do LFR, or succeed and stay with us. The problem is the pool of players for this now basically dry....with have more transferring off or just doing LFR than we do wanting to actively raid and progress as a player.

We could switch to a 10 man guild...but that isn't us. We have been a full sized raiding guild since vanilla and enjoy having the larger raid experience (even though logistically it's a lot worse). We don't want to feed off of the few guilds that are left as that only makes the server worse. Convincing someone to come to this dead server is near impossible (all our transfers have been friends of current raiders and thankfully have been good additions). It would also punish some of our strong core who are there every night that would have to start sitting 50% of the nights.

What we would like to see happen is probably a 6 way server merge. 3 horde dominated servers and 3 Alliance dominated servers merged into 1 server. That would hopefully give us 4 25 man guilds and around 10 10 man guilds on each faction right from the start. This would foster interest in raiding and from there the server might actually start to grow and those #'s would increase.

Unfortunately I don't think this interests blizzard as they seem content just to let servers run themselves into the ground and try to get as much money out of us from transfers as possible (thanks Activision)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12380
I am really happy to see some actual discussion on this. It's sad that it's reached this point but it's nice to see others still willing to speak out about the problem.

One thing each guild is probably going to have to consider in order to survive is taking in new to raiding players. New players may not have the experience that old fogies like us have in WoW, but we were all new once. While it isn't as ideal as throwing an experienced raider in a vacant spot, if the person isn't a window-licker and doesn't stand in fire they can become an invaluable raider pretty darn quickly.

I realize the chances of Bliz doing something to fix the problem is low, but I had to try. Other servers have had more luck- I used to raid on one deader than Droc is now and the "new player" suggestion actually brought them back to life and tripled the amount of active raiding guilds. It even revived horde, which was completely dead there.

The only thing I can see that we can do now as a server to find people who want to raid (but might be intimidated because of their lack of experience) is to reach out. Help people. Bury hatchets and forge new alliances. Become a more supportive community that says "this is how you do it" without fear of judgement. Some people ARE willing to help in that endeavor.

Perhaps run some 25 mans of last tier with limited spots open to the general population, with 5-7 people from the major guilds in attendance to direct? Wouldn't be that hard to down the old content and we could all potentially find raiders who suit our needs. If this sounds feasible/interesting to other guilds, perhaps we can work something out.

One thing is almost certain though- either we transfer off, give up the game or we work hard and put our heads together to make this s*&# hole a better place. It's becoming increasingly clear that it's up to us if we want to save Droc raiding. If any of you out there have constructive ideas that could improve server health, throw them out there.

At this point, it can't hurt. ~_~
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
I dont know what the Horde side is like anymore but I do know that its basically just NI left. The new guild <For the Alliance> which is composition of a bunch of other guilds shows some promise but the problem is that from what I know, none of them have any real Serious raid experience which means they have a very long to way to go before they are any real competition for NI.

As a 10man guild it’s also hard to have a trial process because if we see some potential in an app, but theres lots of room for improvement or they need gear, they still are 10% of the raid so it makes everyone else’s job a lot harder, so there is little room for bad performance. Converting to 25man is impossible with the number of active Alliance players left. We could transfer to Horde but why? It’s more expensive and you guys are having issues, it makes more sense to transfer to a better server. If any of our core members has to go on very long hiatus or just decides to quit WoW then I have no idea how we are going to replace them, NI and the Alliance is looking in a very dire situation.

The Horde though; have enough people where you could rebuild a strong tight-knit community, but that would require a lot of work and cooperation from everyone.

Guilds:

The Horde has way too many guilds for the population to support so the first step really is for the smaller guilds to disband or merge. Each guild left should have its own niche (Serious PvE, Casual PvE, Pvp, Casual, etc) I know this is hard thing to do, each guild having its different reasons, but it needs to be done. Teamwork is the key to success in this game; the server needs to act like a team.
Then the remaining guilds need to be willing to be more lenient on recruiting requirements and then focus on the player’s potential and mindset over the traditional requirements. I would suggest that applications be shorter and less intimidating to newer or less experienced players. Shift the focus to the player rather than their character/avatar. Are they willing to listen to constructive criticism? How do they deal with flaws or fix mistakes? What motivates them to improve as a player and a person? (A Vent interview rather than or in conjunction with written applications is a suggestion)

Guild Structure and Environment is important (suggestions below)
• Add recruitment and class/role officers
• Established Members should be willing to give advice and help new players
• Competition is the Best Motivation
• Officers should be accessible
-A new recruit shouldn’t be intimidated to talk an Officer
-Officers should have a constant presence in the guild online and offline
• Have active guild forums!
- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016271831

General:

The server needs to be active, give people a reason why they want to be online.
• People need to start using the Realm Forums again
• Have previous tier farm runs for alts and people who need gear
• Stop farming old raids through open raid and do it as a server
• Stop inflating prices on the AH just because you’re the only person who can or take the time to make the item, all you do is drive everyone away from the AH and kill the economy.

The biggest hurdle of them all will be getting people motivated and willing to do what it takes to rebuild the server. Most people are in the mindset that the server is dead and beyond saving without Blizzard’s intervention. But if you start this train successfully then it will be a lot easier from there.
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90 Gnome Mage
6715
Ni is the last raiding guild and The last allaince on Allaince side and Last alliance isnt up to current content
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12380

As a 10man guild it’s also hard to have a trial process because if we see some potential in an app, but theres lots of room for improvement or they need gear, they still are 10% of the raid so it makes everyone else’s job a lot harder, so there is little room for bad performance. Converting to 25man is impossible with the number of active Alliance players left. We could transfer to Horde but why? It’s more expensive and you guys are having issues, it makes more sense to transfer to a better server. If any of our core members has to go on very long hiatus or just decides to quit WoW then I have no idea how we are going to replace them, NI and the Alliance is looking in a very dire situation.


I'm aware. Part of the reason I'm lobbying for a merger is because I'm intensely aware of how much trouble alliance is in. I spent most of Cata feeding your AH with stuff from the Horde AH or my farming efforts so that people outside of NI could buy stuff without an insane markup. I stopped selling in MoP because there was no one left to sell to besides you guys. :/

If Ni leaves or dies... this might as well be a pve server. The only people we can world pvp with are ganking scrubs outside the dark portal in crz... and let's face it, that's not exactly fun.

As for your comment about trials, everyone else is in the same boat. At some point people have to stop being so hung up on item level and pay attention to the gamer. Gear can be fixed (and rather quickly at that). Stupid cannot. The same can be said for raiding experience. Many mmo gamers have in fact played other mmos at some point in time! That experience can translate to WoW easily given a patient nudge in the right direction.



The Horde has way too many guilds for the population to support so the first step really is for the smaller guilds to disband or merge. Each guild left should have its own niche (Serious PvE, Casual PvE, Pvp, Casual, etc) I know this is hard thing to do, each guild having its different reasons, but it needs to be done. Teamwork is the key to success in this game; the server needs to act like a team.


While an interesting suggestion, I don't see it being plausible. Many of the 10 man guilds horde side have different raid times and for good reasons.

* My raiders are older than the average and don't want to raid 5 nights a week anymore due to job and family obligations. They also have to get up earlier in the morning and subsequently, we raid earlier than most guilds on server.

*Shattered Soldier was in a similar situation, but their raiders got out of work later and thus raided later in the evening. (You will be missed, guys! Awesome people, especially Lyssa <3)

*Suffer (grats on council, guys!) ... I honestly don't even know what your hours are but I suspect they do not mirror ours :/

*Team II is also in the late night boat.

(I apologize if I have missed your guild in this listing. I know people are trying hard to get bosses down on a server with no people. It's hard to run a guild here and I don't want to demean anyone's hard work!)

SEVEN wishes to push progression more nights a week and is the only 25 man. You can argue some of us 10 mans could fold into a 25 or even merge into SEVEN, but it's not what we 10 manners are looking for.

We need fresh meat, plain and simple. :/
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90 Tauren Priest
8780
I know SEVEN has relaxed their application rules just this month to make it more appealing for people.

We have reduced the application time, changed loot rules regarding applicants and non applicants for MS/OS gear, more clear punishment for going AWOL with no notification to try and prevent random prolonged absences so we can prepare and adjust accordingly. We are even still talking about dropping a day from raiding.

We try to help anyone who applies to us by critiquing their app. We aren't doing this to be mean, we do it to show you where you can improve. If your attitude is positive and you take the critiques and make changes we look highly on it. I'm sure most of our members would be willing to talk to anyone in game about how to improve their toon from stat weights, rotations and even execution. We realize that we have to basically mold some of our roster from a rough stone and hope for a gem. Unfortunately it doesn't always pan out that way.

Oh and wtb more ranged and pally healers....enough dk's already droc....
Edited by Soillse on 4/4/2013 7:32 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
Blizzard is has already came up with a solution to low pop servers, but just like they refused to release Resume from Replay until HotS even though the WoL pro scene needed it, they will wait to release until the next expo and will use it as a "selling point". I dont blame them either, Blizzard is still a business at the end of the day. Why they refuse to even address this topic is because if people got confirmation of this fix, they are less willing to spend money on xfer's.
So people's options atm are to wait it out till next expo if possible, or just take the hit and xfer.

Oh and wtb more ranged and pally healers....enough dk's already droc....

Its flavor of the month, you should check the garbage on the DK forums, every day there are 10 new posts about "Need Help Learning how to DK" when the DK theorycraft community is one the best in the game and there a amazing guides already on the forums. In 5.4 I'm sure some other class will be buffed and all the new DK's will go play that. Bad people think they do bad because their class is bad, when in reality every class is amazing in its own way and its the player's job to show it.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10755
There is talent on this server, its just spread out. If we were to take (we as in a group a people, not the guild SEVEN) the top talent of each guild and made it into a single guild, i'm pretty sure we'd have a lot of progression, enough to push into the top 100 us territory (if not higher). Back to my original point, there is talent, but its just spread out due to factors like timezones, and the sheer fact that a lot of people just want to continue raiding with their friends.

New players don't necessarily mean that they're terrible. They could be new to WoW, but extremely familiar with end game content of MMO's. I realize that its a small percentage of players that actually have prior experience, but just more players in general would stimulate the server. Create more "feeder" guilds as Bonjwa put it, and implant the mentality that there is competition for raid slots.

While I do like the whole idea of labeling the server for new players, and do think it'd help. I know it really wouldn't be enough to make a difference. The only real way to save our server (and many others that are actually worse off than us) is to merge them together.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12240
First off, I'm surprised people still post to these forums. They were dead for quite some time.

Now to the topic. Our server does need some help from outside sources. There is only so much we as a server can do. Unfortunately there are only enough guilds raiding on the server to count on one hand. Some of the guilds that use to raid (including one I'm in) have stopped raiding due to lack of people on the server. Every week I see more people transferring off which in turn makes it so there are less people to raid with it. On top of that you have people quitting for various reasons, thus lower the pool of people.

Guilds can relax their restrictions all they want (for instance we've never had apps and relaxed style without finger point, yelling, etc), but that still doesn't mean we'll magically get people to join our guilds. Many factors go into why people won't join a guild and such and not much we can do to change that. The fact is we need more people physically on the server (that are actively playing, not just inactive accounts or alts, etc) to be able to build some of the guilds up.

Sure, most guilds could merge, but then an issue arises of if people enjoy the new atmosphere, rules, days/times, etc. So in the end even merging I don't see it helping out much. While SEVEN use to be a good guild on the Horde side I do agree with some that some of the people they've recruited in the past years have been either terrible or rude. Granted this isn't SEVEN's fault they are unfortunately having to take who they can just to raid at this point and I don't blame them. As you can see though, these are the problems most of us have to deal with.

Right now our server is just pathetically dead and there's not really much around that. I usually fly area Pandaria doing various things and each day I see maybe one person out of the hours I've been flying around actually doing anything whether it's questing, pvp'ing, dailies, farming, etc. I go to the Isle to do dailies and I usually see at most ten people. Trade chat is usually a barren wasteland and trying to get a pug together for Oondasta (who's been up since they've nerfed and increased spawn rate), Sha or Galleon are non-existant. I've tried various times and see someone else doing it and usually only get 3-4 responses. I can go to another Medium/High/Full server and see 3-5x the amount of people in any zone. Friend of mine who moved from Detheroc to Blackrock I've been grouping with and I get ported to his realm and I can see all the activity and groups getting together in /1 that it makes me sometimes want to just transfer off this dead realm, but part of me doesn't want to as I've been here since it's opened.

To put all this short and simple, we really need more players on this realm. Encouraging new people to sign up here via realm screen could help, but once they realize what it is I wouldn't blame them if they transferred. Merging could be an option, but at the same time causes a lot of internal issues. Allowing for Cross Realm Guilds and such could be an option, but not a long lasting one I believe. Merging guilds might be a temp solution, but one I see causing issues for most. So right now it either seems to be transfer and be happier or stay here and hope for the best.
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90 Orc Warlock
9555
Blizzard is has already came up with a solution to low pop servers, but just like they refused to release Resume from Replay until HotS even though the WoL pro scene needed it, they will wait to release until the next expo and will use it as a "selling point". I dont blame them either, Blizzard is still a business at the end of the day. Why they refuse to even address this topic is because if people got confirmation of this fix, they are less willing to spend money on xfer's.
So people's options atm are to wait it out till next expo if possible, or just take the hit and xfer.


This is a pretty pathetic imo. Personally, I do blame them, because as a business you want to treat your consumers well before someone else comes along with an equal product and treats them right. Those consumers will drop your !@# in a heartbeat otherwise and Blizzard has just been lucky up to this point that most of the competition they've had has been total crap(Rift,ToR,etc.).

We need a solution or at least to hear what they have in mind before they piss off more people, as some get fed up with having to take raiders with sub-par performance night after night(when a full raid can be fielded that is). When the good players do get tired of it, they leave and it just continues to hurt our realm's raid groups more. It a vicious cycle. The horrendous nature of our server is driving away the few good players we have remaining away and they are getting to be very few and far between. Soon, there will be no one left at all.

I mean sure, maybe the server could "band together" and make the best of the unfortunate situation we're in. I'm afraid that would only go so far though for reasons others here have brought up already.

There are good players on this server. Just not enough decent players to fill in the whole in all the raiding teams. Sure we could take the best 25 people on the server and make a potentially great guild out of it, but who's to say all those personalities would mesh? That's without even mentioning people that prefer 10s for whatever reason, differing raid times/days available, preferred looting system, and more issues. We just need a large influx of new blood(that aren't total derps) and there seems to be no other realistic way to accomplish that beyond a massive, multi-server merge.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
lol this thread. Poor baby detheroc- just press your buttons harder.

The Talent on this server is terrible, opening for "new" players to join is not the answer, what do you expect ot happen, be flooded with NEW players that don't know !@#$ about dps/charts/logs/anything to join your 3/12 NORMAL guild? wow, that will solve your problems.

Leave this server if you want to raid heroics or if you want to finsish normals before nerfs app to seven.

Seven and NI should just merged together and actually get %^-* done. There is not reason why the only decent raiding guilds should not play together. There is no reason why you can't be 12/12 normals by now. Esp SEVEN. Srsly wtf is going on with you guys.

Switching to 10m if you need to. The guild I am in is recruiting players right now for our spots if you guys truly need a place to go to raid. Anyone from NI or Seven that I know I would give a thumbs up to app.

Bad wolf just needs to disband and try to do something else. PVE is not for you.


Physics
Its everywhere
Potential energy turns into Kinetic Energy when the object is given an initial force
Momentum is that is requires more energy to start an object to move then it takes to keep it moving
Edited by Wheva on 4/11/2013 5:41 AM PDT
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87 Undead Mage
9685
Yeah. A couple of us just transferred off recently. Some of us have been on Detheroc since BC. We had some people quit cause it was just getting old not being able to recruit. As much as I did not want to transfer off Detheroc, I had too. It was killing my desire to play the game.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12795
04/07/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Imbashaman
The Talent on this server is terrible


Some of the guilds here are just not willing to drop their standards for recruitment low enough to let toxic emotionally damaged children like you into their guild. That may hamper their progression, but I'd rather take someone who stands in fire nine times out of ten when it spawns under them than raid with someone who is so pathetic they go around gaming forums trying to start !@#$.

Glad to see your life is going so well Qq, must be really fulfilling for you. Really hope that whole thing about you having a kid was just someone trolling...
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