Shadow and Holy

90 Human Priest
3650
Hpriest has 50% buff for shadow and holy spells.
Spriest only has 25%.

Is hpriest really not viable as dps toon?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5445
i know they were in 5.1 but i dont know about 5.2
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90 Undead Priest
18665
Holy was close to, but still behind Shadow prior to 5.2. There were a couple of buffs for 5.2 that only affected Shadow DPS, increasing the gap significantly.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
Holy was close to, but still behind Shadow prior to 5.2. There were a couple of buffs for 5.2 that only affected Shadow DPS, increasing the gap significantly.


Shadow pulled a 5% increase on form....that isn't significant at all in the grand scheme.

Holy WAS ahead of Shadow on some of the fights in 5.1. In 5.2, we still stay competitive and close.

If you are raiding Holy dps now, stay it. You'll be fine. If not, go shadow.
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90 Draenei Mage
17465
04/01/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Ponderous
Holy was close to, but still behind Shadow prior to 5.2. There were a couple of buffs for 5.2 that only affected Shadow DPS, increasing the gap significantly.


Shadow pulled a 5% increase on form....that isn't significant at all in the grand scheme.

Holy WAS ahead of Shadow on some of the fights in 5.1. In 5.2, we still stay competitive and close.

If you are raiding Holy dps now, stay it. You'll be fine. If not, go shadow.


5% buff on shadow form is enormous. If you're competitive with other members of your raid they are either 1) suffering from a massive gear gap (dozens and dozens of ilevels) or 2) flat out bad at their class.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
04/01/2013 04:33 PMPosted by Ryegeleye


Shadow pulled a 5% increase on form....that isn't significant at all in the grand scheme.

Holy WAS ahead of Shadow on some of the fights in 5.1. In 5.2, we still stay competitive and close.

If you are raiding Holy dps now, stay it. You'll be fine. If not, go shadow.


5% buff on shadow form is enormous. If you're competitive with other members of your raid they are either 1) suffering from a massive gear gap (dozens and dozens of ilevels) or 2) flat out bad at their class.


Or...get ready....no. 5% is ...5%. The biggest change with that is the change to DP and its interaction with mastery AND the 5%. I still sit top 10 in my 25 man guild b/c of how Holy works with chakra.

I know, it sucks when your finite lil comment breaks.
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90 Draenei Mage
17465
Ok, let's take the top western parse from H25 man Jin'rokh (I know you get a 40% damage buff for portions of the encounter, but it will illustrate how strong "just" a 5% buff is.)

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rd1g0n4ihntlo3fp/sum/damageDone/?s=615&e=901#Adaqeu

Adaqeu did ~199771k dps (rounding). 5% of that figure is ~9988 dps. Maybe that's small. Maybe it's not. It's relative. I started playing the game when gains of 50 dps on gear upgrades were HUGE.

But since it's relative, we can look at it in an actual context:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'rokh_the_Breaker/25H/all/14/30/median/

Shadow priests are at the bottom (frowny face), but if you added 9988 dps to their median dps figure, Shadow would go from slot 19 to slot 8. The gap between 11-12 specs is less than 5%. So, in the grand scheme of things a 5% buff can actually end up quite significant.

And I think my comment still stands, if you're in the top 10 as holy dps, then you play with people who flat out suck at their class.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
Ok, let's take the top western parse from H25 man Jin'rokh (I know you get a 40% damage buff for portions of the encounter, but it will illustrate how strong "just" a 5% buff is.)

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rd1g0n4ihntlo3fp/sum/damageDone/?s=615&e=901#Adaqeu

Adaqeu did ~199771k dps (rounding). 5% of that figure is ~9988 dps. Maybe that's small. Maybe it's not. It's relative. I started playing the game when gains of 50 dps on gear upgrades were HUGE.

But since it's relative, we can look at it in an actual context:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'rokh_the_Breaker/25H/all/14/30/median/

Shadow priests are at the bottom (frowny face), but if you added 9988 dps to their median dps figure, Shadow would go from slot 19 to slot 8. The gap between 11-12 specs is less than 5%. So, in the grand scheme of things a 5% buff can actually end up quite significant.

And I think my comment still stands, if you're in the top 10 as holy dps, then you play with people who flat out suck at their class.


Yet you are adding 5% on a pre-existing context...which does not work. It's already there, ie. it's not that significant at this time. If you added another 5%, which you did, it would be, ie. 10%. 10% is huge, 5% not so much.

With your last comment, it just shows you really don't know how holy dps works and the synergies it holds. I, currently, still out dmg a shadow priest on my shadow spells. Where they do higher dps than me is their uptime when movement occurs as they can still put out pressure -- not much though. I simply cannot, ie. I smite; I fire; I pain. On the move, I pain...if i fire, i just killed a chunk of my dps as the dot is pitiful, and I need the debuff for my ramp. If i have to move, I'm boned.... If i patchwerk, I will sit in a shadow's !@#$%^-, while still being under them as i will dump my utility on parts of the fight...as it should be.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
04/01/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Ponderous
Holy was close to, but still behind Shadow prior to 5.2. There were a couple of buffs for 5.2 that only affected Shadow DPS, increasing the gap significantly.


Shadow pulled a 5% increase on form....that isn't significant at all in the grand scheme.

Holy WAS ahead of Shadow on some of the fights in 5.1. In 5.2, we still stay competitive and close.

If you are raiding Holy dps now, stay it. You'll be fine. If not, go shadow.


It also got insanity, the boost for single target damage. On multi dot fights, Holy could never keep it very close, and it can't now on single target with the 5% buff and insanity.
Edited by Dictainabox on 4/1/2013 11:21 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5445
04/01/2013 04:33 PMPosted by Ryegeleye


Shadow pulled a 5% increase on form....that isn't significant at all in the grand scheme.

Holy WAS ahead of Shadow on some of the fights in 5.1. In 5.2, we still stay competitive and close.

If you are raiding Holy dps now, stay it. You'll be fine. If not, go shadow.


5% buff on shadow form is enormous. If you're competitive with other members of your raid they are either 1) suffering from a massive gear gap (dozens and dozens of ilevels) or 2) flat out bad at their class.


Ok, let's take the top western parse from H25 man Jin'rokh (I know you get a 40% damage buff for portions of the encounter, but it will illustrate how strong "just" a 5% buff is.)

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rd1g0n4ihntlo3fp/sum/damageDone/?s=615&e=901#Adaqeu

Adaqeu did ~199771k dps (rounding). 5% of that figure is ~9988 dps. Maybe that's small. Maybe it's not. It's relative. I started playing the game when gains of 50 dps on gear upgrades were HUGE.

But since it's relative, we can look at it in an actual context:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'rokh_the_Breaker/25H/all/14/30/median/

Shadow priests are at the bottom (frowny face), but if you added 9988 dps to their median dps figure, Shadow would go from slot 19 to slot 8. The gap between 11-12 specs is less than 5%. So, in the grand scheme of things a 5% buff can actually end up quite significant.

And I think my comment still stands, if you're in the top 10 as holy dps, then you play with people who flat out suck at their class.


The 5% buff was to offset how poorly Spriest scales and if you also consider that most classes got more severe buffs while the only one i can think of that got nerfed instead was arcane but they were already ahead of Spriest in 5.1. The reason Spriest are preforming so well this tier is because most of the fights involve multi-doting. you will notice that every fight that is single target on the othe rhand has Spriest roughly at the same spot and currently worst for first boss in heroic 25man(prolly the fight done the most often since its first boss so prolly has the most data out of all the heroics i need to check and make sure).

On to holy, holy scales exceedingly well with gear and since they do not require and spirit or hit they can reforge out of it for extra stats. Furthermore, due to the buff to power infusion they can use it more efficiently than Shadow because it they are mostly hard casting spells. howtopriest.com has done tests in 5.1 and had holy pulling ahead in single target fights and notes some of the things i mentioned. I really wish people would do research before even posting
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90 Draenei Mage
17465
howtopriest.com has done tests in 5.1 and had holy pulling ahead in single target fights and notes some of the things i mentioned. I really wish people would do research before even posting


Except we're not in 5.1 anymore, and shadow got buffed. It's not a contest anymore. Shadow does more dps.
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90 Human Mage
8630
Holy dps? What is this chicanery?
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
Holy dps? What is this chicanery?


I love you .
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90 Human Paladin
9320
It's a competent single target DPS who has: Lightwell, Guardian Spirit, Divine Hymn, and Improved Death. That is, competent when geared properly, which involves 0 Mastery and very little Spirit. Casting any actual healing outside of those few cooldowns is not sustainable in the slightest.

Also @ Ponderous I sent you some ingame mail asking for some personal tutelage if you didn't realize this.
Edited by Misdirectomy on 4/2/2013 2:35 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
It's a competent single target DPS who has: Lightwell, Guardian Spirit, Divine Hymn, and Improved Death. That is, competent when geared properly, which involves 0 Mastery and very little Spirit. Casting any actual healing outside of those few cooldowns is not sustainable in the slightest.

Also @ Ponderous I sent you some ingame mail asking for some personal tutelage if you didn't realize this.


I added you. just look for jciinus with some set of numbers....i really don't know what my real tag is off the top of my head =p. But yeah, accept and when i'm on, light me up with questions...no worries mate.
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53 Blood Elf Priest
7480
I throw my hat in to make a Confessor/Inquisitor Holy DPS spec.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5445
04/02/2013 01:32 AMPosted by Ryegeleye
howtopriest.com has done tests in 5.1 and had holy pulling ahead in single target fights and notes some of the things i mentioned. I really wish people would do research before even posting


Except we're not in 5.1 anymore, and shadow got buffed. It's not a contest anymore. Shadow does more dps.


and of course you completely missed the point where i said holy scales better than shadow. good job.

Naturally you have done no test and going off of what your assumptions of what you think is better.
Edited by Fayte on 4/4/2013 4:24 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
12360
Not anymore. While the SW:P buff reversion hurt our scaling Haste is working out pretty well now
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